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LeKiwi
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Joined: Nov 27, 2007
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Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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 Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I don't shun all modern medicine, only some. Like vaccines. I've explained why.
"It" = H5N1 morphing into another plague as such; it hasn't happened yet, it may not ever happen. That's the only thing I could think of that the Spanish Flu post could have been making reference to, and it isn't affected by flu vaccines anyway, so again, I'm not entirely sure of what the point in that 'anyone care for another Spanish Flu' post was.
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GodsGadfly
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Joined: May 22, 2008
Age: 31
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
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When I get a cold or flu, I take a lot of Vitamin C, echinecea (can never remember how to spell it--yes, I know it's not an antiviral, but I'm susceptible to pneumonia, and it keeps me from getting pneumonia), and eat a high-protein diet. It usually knocks the whole thing out, even with my crummy system.
My wife says that her college roomate was obsessed with using mouthwash and taking Vitamin C. During their freshman year, they were in an absolutely disgusting dorm building, with absolutely disgusting residents, but neither one of them ever got sick, because Mary followed her roommate's advice and gargled with mouthwash several times a day and took Vitamin C every day.
She fell otu of being quite so disciplined about it, but she still follows the basic principle, and she gets sick a lot less than the kids and I do. |
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LeKiwi
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Amen to that, echinacea (correct spelling  ) is magical stuff. I take it through winter (with the needed breaks!) and rarely get ill, never for longer than a day or two at a time. Vitamin C too - if you get a high-strength, natural, good-quality one and take a few grams a day you'll not only feel better, but it kicks illness' butt. Taking high doses at the first sign often stops it happening at all.
Other goodies I'd suggest are good old honey and lemon for a cold (using real lemons and real honey, not sugar-filled additive-riddled crap - manuka honey being the best), apple cider vinegar gargled or swallowed either neat or in water to bring back a lost voice and stop throat infections, a teaspoon of manuka honey a day to stop illness, sea-salt gargles for mouthwash...
Mother nature always provides; she's been around long enough, hasn't she?
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beau99
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Joined: Nov 06, 2007
Age: 22
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Location: A cruel H*llhole called Earth.
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| LeKiwi wrote: | Amen to that, echinacea (correct spelling ) is magical stuff. I take it through winter (with the needed breaks!) and rarely get ill, never for longer than a day or two at a time. Vitamin C too - if you get a high-strength, natural, good-quality one and take a few grams a day you'll not only feel better, but it kicks illness' butt. Taking high doses at the first sign often stops it happening at all.
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My parents used to take high doses of echinacea for things like this.
They still got sick.
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LeKiwi
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Course people will still get sick taking it - what else did they do? What did they eat? How much did they sleep? General health? Etc etc. The one thing you can be certain of though is it's ability to make illness less severe and last a shorter duration. The stuff has been used for thousands of years and proven over and over again in tests - it's not really one of the ones to be taking to task.
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GodsGadfly
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: May 22, 2008
Age: 31
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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"They still got sick."
With *what*?
There's a difference between bacterial and viral infection.
The reason that people like myself are supposed to get flu shots, etc., is to prevent getting serious secondary infections like pneumonia.
I used to get bronchitis or pneumonia every time I got a cold or flu. For several years in a row, I got the flu shot (which only lasts so long). Instead of getting the flu and bronchitis in the winter, I'd get the flu and pneumonia in the summer, and spend 2 weeks in bed.
I stopped taking the flu shot and looking into nutritional supplements and alternative treaments.
Now, I get the flu, and it goes away relatively quickly. I don't take echinecia for the flu; I take it to prevent the bronchitis or pneumonia.
In fact, having been on IV antibiotics and very high doses of antibiotic pills, there are distinctive symptoms one gets when one has been on high doses of antibiotics. When I take a large amount of echinecia (6 pills a day 4 times a day), I feel just like i've been on an IV. |
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LeKiwi
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Echinacea is magical stuff, I can't understand people who ridicule it without having tried it or getting the effects of it!!
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beau99
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| LeKiwi wrote: | | Echinacea is magical stuff, I can't understand people who ridicule it without having tried it or getting the effects of it!! |
It's the way that you (and others before you) promote it that makes me wary.
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LeKiwi
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| beau99 wrote: | | LeKiwi wrote: | | Echinacea is magical stuff, I can't understand people who ridicule it without having tried it or getting the effects of it!! |
It's the way that you (and others before you) promote it that makes me wary. |
Well, the reason I promote it is that it works wonderfully, since I've been taking it I've not been ill and the few times I have been it's only lasted a day or so and been very mild (think, a runny nose and itchy throat vs being cooped up in bed all day with a high fever, sweats, chills, etc). So of course I tell people about it and say how good it is, I want to share that with other people. If there's one thing I hate it's seeing other people sick and suffering, so if I find something that can stop that and doesn't come with side effects when taken properly it's great and I will go on and on about it (that could just be the aspie in me talking 'at' people, but nevertheless...).
It's no different than drug companies pushing their stuff on me, or people saying "I found this stuff called ibuprofen, it's brilliant, if you ever feel sore then take it and it'll fix you up real good!", but it comes without the side effects, prevents rather than treats symptoms (though the way it lessens the duration of illness you could argue is treating symptoms too), and I dare say is touted in a far more altruistic manner than the drug companies.
I don't gain anything from promoting it - it's a plant that grows everywhere, get some of your own! - other than seeing other people less ill and not suffering so much.
If that makes it any clearer for you? I don't mean to make you wary of it, again - I just hate seeing people suffer!
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lau
Non-abelian, simple sexaginta! Male + silly bits.
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Age: 60
Posts: 7700
Location: Somerset UK
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Most peculiar... rather than using well controlled and monitored treatments, you are happy to stick large amounts of untested Echinacea plant bits inside yourself, and advocate that others should also do so.
I prefer to use neither, but should I need to make the choice between a dubious North American plant with some sporadic, anecdotal recommendations and a well researched and documented specific treatment, I will always choose the latter.
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LeKiwi
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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It's hardly untested; on top of being used for thousands of years for this purpose (which should be proof enough of its safety, I don't think anyone would keep eating something that hurt their friends, regardless of how 'primitive' they may be) it's been tested, monitored, trialled and proven time and again in recent years.
I'd rather take something herbal that works and has no side effects than a dangerous, synthetic chemical compound with a great list of side effects and dubious impact on your heart, stomach, etc. But I guess it depends on where your priorities lie, right? 
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lau
Non-abelian, simple sexaginta! Male + silly bits.
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
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Posts: 7700
Location: Somerset UK
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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The tests exist only in your imagination. It's so trivial to refute your unsubstantiated claims. If you have some genuine science to quote, by all means do so.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/353/4/341
Conclusions The results of this study indicate that extracts of E. angustifolia root, either alone or in combination, do not have clinically significant effects on infection with a rhinovirus or on the clinical illness that results from it.
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LeKiwi
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Posts: 2630
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Ahhh, no, you probably wouldn't see much of a difference in that study.
Problem: Dosage.
| Quote: | | The treatments were given three times each day as a 1.5-ml tincture containing the equivalent of 300 mg of echinacea root. |
If you want any effect, most herbalists etc will recommend you take doses of between 800-1200mg several times a day; 300mg won't do much. Also, most tested stuff is dried herb, whereas freshly prepared extracts kept in an alcohol base are far more potent and retain the healing properties. The pills you buy in most shops are ok, and you might get some effect if you take enough, but you won't get anything near what the plant is capable of when taken properly.
When taking drugs, ask a chemist.
When taking herbal remedies, ask a herbalist.
That simple. 
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lau
Non-abelian, simple sexaginta! Male + silly bits.
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
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Posts: 7700
Location: Somerset UK
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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When you want science, ask a chemist.
When you want fancy footwork, ask a herbalist.
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LeKiwi
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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There's not much fancy footwork there, only nature's medicine cabinet free for all to use...
(Yeah, free. Guess that's where the problem is, right?)
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