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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 46
Posts: 5090
Location: Village of the Damned
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 Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:33 am Post subject: |
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I don't question your right to be here at all, please don't misunderstand my question. I was just wondering if your daughter was AS to see if she responded differently to you then your husband...ie...AS is a spectrum and can come with other "baggage". I also believe females may present a bit differently then males because we have a different chemical/hormonal make-up.It would actually surprise me if we didn't.
As far as my being AS, I have been DXed but i do question it sometimes because I know that I have a great deal of empathy and expressed it in extreme as a child. I was the little girl pulling drowning bugs out of the swimming pool and sticking up for the "retarded" classmate that people were picking on...I liked her and she was always kind to me. However, if you asked my parents about me they would say I was a selfish, rude, lazy, spac-cadet. I never talked back or destroyed property or harmed them or anyone else and my "meltdowns" were no more then hiding in my room crying when I was overwhelmed. I got good grades in school and was only in trouble for helping classmates instead of staying in my seat<---doesn't sound to aspie does it. But I made them miserable and they said that they knew I was "messed up" by the time I was around 9. They finally kicked me out at 16 because they found living with me to horrible. Honestly, I was just being me and not trying to be a bad person. I still don't really understand. I mean it couldn't have been them...they raised three other kids (though, I was the only adopted one), who seemed fine and are very successful NTs. I just think NT and AS seem to find a lot of trouble just letting each other be "themselves".
I am sorry for your experience with your husband and I realize that there are many kids here who are pretty harsh...but I want to reiterate that many ARE kids and that many of us adults are dealing with the pain of living with AS with no DX and no support and still have none. I would also like to mention that none of my sisters BF's were AS and they beat her regularly and were also very controlling and manipulative. I don't believe this is an AS or NT thing. A bully only needs one thing...power over someone else through the use of fear. I have even seen this in several gay relationships...so it is far from a gender specific thing either. What I do think is consistent and more important is that it is such a part of our society...whether in school,church or employment...that it has become a societal norm.
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Odin
Supreme Genius
Joined: Oct 13, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 2092
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| krex wrote: | | little-bird wrote: |
would you say it is like unlearning those parts of our behaviour that were instilled in us as children, which now prevent us from living the lives we want? then learning new ways?
at the moment i'm finding buddhist studies helpful because it's very much more like a psychology or science - it teaches to become more aware of your mind, and the illusions of thought, etc |
I think Buddhism is a very healthy form of CBT  ...two thumbs up. I think there are many paths to enlightenment Grasshopper  (and I am not being sarcastic, in-case anyone misconstrues) I recommend reading the Tao of Poo |
That is exactly why I took up Buddhist meditation
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Odin
Supreme Genius
Joined: Oct 13, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 2092
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| Inventor wrote: | | krex wrote: | I seldom disagree with what you say Inventor...but what do we do with the children who are in so much pain. We can't kill all the bullies..there are to many and they still run the world. The sensory pain they feel is real...it was for me. I can't change that I was in pain but can't we do anything to help kids not be in so much pain ? I do think a lot of it could be eliminated by not trying to change things that don't need to be changed and encouraging things that work for them but they still have to go out into the real world and deal with all the bullies.
Suppressing my frustration and rage as a kid probably is what made me do so many hurtful things to myself but the alternative...hurting them...was seldom an option for me. They were bigger and they would just hurt me more. If we can't change the bullies and we can't change the rage, there must be away to help them feel less of the pain ? |
I agree with that, but the answer is not how to change what is wrong with you, it is what is it that annoys you.
There is a problem, and my experiance it is the bully factor from parents and teachers made it open season on me for their other children.
They were the ones who equated different with wrong. It self justified them treating me any way that they wanted. I was scapegoated, blamed for everything wrong with their lives. I was the whipping boy to take the punishment for their feelings of low self esteme.
My mothers marriage broke up when I was two, guess who was blamed?
My teachers made a constant issue of a quite child, who made little eye contact, and too much when told, "look at me." The other children could get by sitting quietly in their desks doing their work, I did, made good grades, and was publically corrected daily.
It was never explained what I did that caused me to be sent to the principals office, he did not know. Not only was I sent from class for no reason, I was quite, and did not speak, for everything I said was wrong. and this teacher set out to destroy me. When I took my books and did as I was told, in silence not wanting to be in the same room with her, she crossed the room and slapped me in the back of the head as I was leaving.
After that I was often slapped in the back of the head by students, mosly in groups who then ran away.
My family and school both agreed it was my fault, and I deserved worse.
I was under strong demand to change, but no one ever said from what, to what.
Guess why I am yelling at you an hitting you, and turning the world out to join in?
When I asked for explanations, I got anger, more punishment, for I was nine, and should have known how to change myself to please all people in general.
I went to school, did my work, caused no problems, and lived a life of constant hell at home and at school. When I did make friends I was questioned about it, the other kids who were interested in Science, then the phone calls were made, and places I had been welcome I was met by the mother at the door and told harshly not to come back, and the door slammed in my face.
This from people who had welcomed me, had me in their house, till they were told something was wrong with me and I would most likely kill them all and burn down their house. These events were some of the few times I remember my mother smiling at me.
Whenever I found someone to talk to, their parents were informed. They had mistaken me for a smart child with an interest in Science, till they were told the truth.
After my education was ended at 14, I had the highest grades in reading comprehension, Science, Math, but did not make appropiate eye contact, which displeased some b***h goddesss teachers. I went and ran a pool hall, and made good money, I still shoot a good stick, bought a motorcycle, got a night job as assistant manager of a toy store, never came home till after midnight, and left first thing in the morning, I was only attacked a few times in my sleep with a broom.
When I went to college at 18, my family freaked, I could not do that, I was an uneducatable retard, and my mother demanded to know the names and phone numbers of my teachers, for she would soon set them straight.
I was going to school in the morning, working 40 hours at my computer job, the punch card era, 1968, and when passing through home being punched in the throut at dinner. It was my fault for trying to be something I could never be.
The local police became involved, and asked the same question my principal had, why were you sent to the office? It seems the police were told I owned a motorcycle, and was doing something. Being police they investigated, and told me I should move.
I did, to New York, and had a great time. Someone told the FBI I was avoiding the draft, and where I was hiding out. The only people who knew my address were my mother, and The US State Department where I worked.
"My Autistic child" often becomes the scapegoat for personal and family problems. Since it is common knowledge we do not have souls or legal rights, and parents will blame the chid if a teacher or anyone else strikes them, they are only defending their point of view, when all of the world's problems are blamed on a nine year old.
What irks me is the continuation into adult years. Parents lose the legal right to torture children at eighteen, but not the need. Everything was done to keep me from becoming an adult.
I have a Federal record for draft evasion. I was arrested, it was pop news back then. They were a bit embarrased when it came out that I was registered, with my draft board, and had never been called for a physical, no draft notice. I still have a record for being arrested for a Federal Felony. That cost me my job with the State Department. I am barred from Federal employment. No major Corporation would hire me.
Once parents start down the path of, it is the childs fault, and the child has to change to justify their actions, it never ends. Existing was my fault, they had a right to make my education, social life, employment life, and relation with the local police and FBI hell, to defend their actions.
To do anything else they would have to admit they were wrong, not a human trait, less so with the guilty. They stuck to, they had to do it because it was my fault.
I have a slightly different Neurology. what I gather from NT's is they think in words, and come up with one answer. I see in whole pictures with a thousand possible outcomes. From that I chose the ones closest to my goal. I am still told I am wrong, but not at The Patent Office.
My own career choices were Government, State Department, or IBM. One phone call blocked both of those lives. It would have made my fifth grade teacher, and others, look bad.
This whole idea of brainwashing children into pretending to enjoy the abuse and insults they recieve is a reverse of what I see, children are made angry and depressed by family and school, their world, and it is not the child's fault.
What you are asking for is, "Yassa massa, I loves the ways you beats me, you, dem teacher goddesses, alls the real chillen, it pleases me to be abused by all of you." It makes me so happy I get happy feet and wants to dance fo yo. I be your tard boy massa.
There is a problem, it is Neurological hard wiring, but not ours.
Children do grow into adults. It is very possible to destroy all of their future. They may age out of Autism, but that Federal record is forever.
I will admit we are not good at some things. We are very good at other things. The things we do not do well are common, where we excel our talents are rare, and in demand.
We have a Neurological differance, not a Behaviorial problem. NT's have behaviorial problems, mental illness, not us, and trying to fit us into a NT mold of defectiveness, then demanding that we apoligise, is not the answer.
If your child can paint with photographic skill, breaking their fingers is the wrong approach. Making them apoligize for having to have their fingers broken is also not wise.
The hard part is no NT can even glimse the mosazic pattern of thought we live in. LabPet describes it well for the video Smelena made. Or in he follow up, for I think the most important point for us, how we see, which LabPet nailed, was edited out by Smelena.
It is like submiting a mathematical answer and proof to someone who only knows a little arithmatic. They can be told, but lack the wiring to understand, and have the preconception that we are wrong, babbling nonsense, and they are trying to make us right, like them.
We are Broadband and digital, they are analog and POTS. Plain Old Telephone Service, one word at a time. They edit everything into text only, without graphics. What we communicate that is outside of their bandwidth is considered deranged thinking.
We start with a question, view all possible answers, and chose goals. They start with a goal, and break, bend, smash, trying to fit us into their view of a mold. I do not fit well through a twisted pair. That is the feed for POTS.
Maybe in this enlightened time it is no longer electro shock, Thorizine, calling the police on adult children, who dare just live and prosper, but the intent is the same, that little retard is going to pay for this, and smile and say thank you.
NT will never understand for they cannot see as we see, think as we think, and yet they can be sure we are wrong, and, freely use North Korean brainwashing tactics on children.
The art of brainwashing is first undermine what a person thinks, show them they are wrong, then offer to help them see the truth. This behaviorial modification is Pavlov applied to humans. It could be called "Teaching Stockhome Syndrom."
NT's are not evil, just ordinary people. It is I who have a hard time seeing a differance.
"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
Most NT behavior toward us has been discredited. Thorazine and electro convulsive shock were used on people who complained about being locked up without crime, trial, but on the word of their family, who saw they were going to inheret money, so had them locked up, stripped of legal rights, a Mental Patient, and took all the money.
When the courts closed that option, there was nothing medically wrong with us from 1974 to 1994. It just happens to coincide with the computer industry.
Now the unemployed Psych Warfare set is out to make a buck. Brainwashing and torture are banned by the Geneva Convention. Just because George Bush thinks waterboarding is a sport, that is not a green light for some Pop Psyc Professor to use it to cure Autism.
The Medical view of Autism is we know nothing. Real Doctors who use Science.
There are no drugs that benefit Autism.
There is no treatment shown to be effective except common sense and human decency.
We are not NT's with defective brains.
We are not NT's with a Developmental Disorder.
We are not NT's with a Mental Illness.
We are Autistics, shown to have a lot in common on WP, a type of human.
Until torture and brainwashing is renounced, until we are granted the right to be ourselves, I will object.
I object to being considered a hopeless retard and fair game to speak down to by NT's who just want to help.
I object when statments by the Autistic explaining the differance in brain function, thought patterns, are edited out.
We do not have Diplomatic Relations with the NT, they send Missionaries and Colonial Administrators to speak for us Natives.
The differance between Autism Speaks and Tony Attwood is the first ignores adult Autistics, and the second supports Cassandra Syndrome.
There are several million adult Autistics. Niether group wishes to study outcomes, as they are feeding off the children.
Adult Autistics are very vocal about what was done wrong to them, treatments and attitudes that hindered their development, and about the differances in thinking and working that benefit us during the adult years.
These children will become adults, brainwashed if Tony has his way. It will not help them in life, and only offers a short term benefit to parents and teachers who do not want to learn about us other than ways to control us. Heroin would do less long term damage.
I have a core of fairness and justice. without it, what would I be? Brainwashing is a direct attack on ethics, lying is good, lying is my friend. It may seem to fit the child into the NT world, but what of adult outcome?
What should be taught is what you can hear here from adult Autistics. First stop all the, "You poor suffering retard," view. In general we are more intelligent, even if we do flunk the social part of the test. We are good for what we are good for, and no amount of remedial eye contact, hand shaking, back slapping, and talking sports and celebs will aid us in any way, but will hinder our natural development toward being functioning adults in the world.
I do not like people electing themselves to come yell at me to change my ways. I do not need to be made to enjoy them trying to "help" me. I can sell out myself just fine if that is what I want.
Several million of us adults are getting by just fine. NT's are a pain, but we learn to cope. NT's also think NT's are a pain, so none of your lip.
We thank you for all of your effort in telling us we are wrong, and it is our fault. Now it is time to move on. Millions of us are having everything put at risk because a few untrained non-medical types have discovered us as children.
Atacking the Autistic Community is not being helpful. Trying programs developed for Depressed NT's, things read in some Woman's Magazine, Korean Brainwashing, or what you learned about Dog Training, is not being helpful.
It may make you feel better, "Do something, even if it is wrong," but it does not help our cause. You are making things worse, just another brick in the wall.
We are normal humans with a slight hardwired differance. We are not insane or criminal. In fact we run very honest, plain speaking, and just because we cannot understand the social value of football, or Paris Hilton's boobs, does not make us lesser beings.
We process information in batches. Words, pictures, colors, smells, sounds, all at once, so quit yelling. We do not get the "right answer", there is not "a" right answer, there are hundreds and thousands.
For a people who deal only in words, NT's are not very good at word usage. They also seem to have hearing problems, they only hear what they want to.
If they would make the effort to learn the langauge, so they could say what they mean, if they will accept written statments that must be dealt with sentence and paragraph at a time, no cheating allowed. If they can confine their statments to Reason, Science, and a record they will have to sign, date, and stick to, it may be possible to open Diplomatic Relations.
Before this can happen they must reconize that we are human, and have just as much right to be us, as they have to be them. We have lived through all of their tortures and never changed.
We should share the same goal of us becoming functioning adults. A first step would be renouncing torturing the children with Psychobabble. Until you acknowledge that we are not defective, insane, and at fault, there will be little room for progress.
I have had two basic relationships in life, those who saw me as defective, may they burn in Hell for all Eturnity, and those who saw me as having superior skills, and were glad to have someone around who could keep their computers running.
The first group gave me hell, the second money. I have never met anyone who did both.
Whenever the relationship starts with you are wrong, now here is an emotional thermometer, I know what group I am dealing with.
We will have Diplomatic Relations, recognition of our right to exist, or remain enemies.
Read Attwood's new book, "Getting rich off Autism."
He is a Professor turned Talk Show Pop Psych Celeb.
He has no Medical or Scientific credibility. He is a Con Man. |
Excellent post, Inventor. I quoted it on my blog.
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My Blog: My Autistic Life |
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little-bird
Snowy Owl
Joined: May 21, 2006
Posts: 171
Location: up the faraway tree
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| chesapeaker wrote: | | Aspies don't have that part of the brain to even comprehend empathy or the fact someone needs something from them. |
| chesapeaker wrote: | First things Aspies do is get threatened if they don't hear something they don't like and CANNOT even begin to comprehend, because that part of their brain is not functioning, or missing or whatever. It makes me feel bad. I am very very patient about it. But you have to understand, sometimes us NT's get really impatient with the marginal relationship and need a break. It is like playing tennis with someone who doesn't understand they are supposed to return the ball. The whole point of the tennis game is lost, and eventually you give up lobbing balls that are never returned.
I wonder if you are Aspie either, because you do return the ball pretty well. Because Aspies are totally incapable of understanding us NT's and where we are coming from, they make us out be be abusers and monsters. Too bad, because Aspies totally miss the patience and love and support we offer and in turn are mean to us. You can see it all over this site. I am getting lots of insight into my 14 yr fiasco and feeling much better. |
This hurts chesapeaker.
Just because your husband/some people are unresponsive, lack empathy or have empathy but lack the ability to express it, get threatened, are controlling, etc., does not therefore mean all people with Aspergers are like this. That is a gross generalisation. Furthermore, I would like to point out that all of these qualities are found in all sorts of people, regardless of whatever labels, categories, denominations, or diagnoses people care to slap on them.
You say aspies are 'mean to us. You can see it all over this site.' Sure, there are some harsh words, spitefulness, and textual abuse. Have a little compassion. This is a place for us aspies to try to come to term with problems, to vent our frustrations, and angers, and find a bit of understanding through others that share our experiences. Many people here are hurting, or angry, or frustrated, or lonely and feel very alienated. Many feel a frightening sense of injustice, and a lack of tolerance and deeper insight, not only from our loved ones, but also the general community, and our own therapists, psychologists, etc. Many of us feel deeply misunderstood, and have spent much of our lives curled up in a place somewhere, crying inside. Or like we are trapped inside an invisible cage, screaming for help, and for someone to understand us, but nobody hears. And then when somebody says things like we have no empathy, it feels like being kicked in the guts.
Okay, you have been hurt by your aspie husband. I'm sorry that happened to you. Please don't take it out on us. One individual does not stand for all the other individuals lumped under a collective term.
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Featherways
Snowy Owl
Joined: Nov 06, 2005
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: |
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I'd certainly like to say that I'm aspie, and married to an aspie. He's a great man. He doesn't pick up on social cues so I've had to learn to explain things to him. Likewise, he's had to learn to explain to me too. I know many people who are aspie and extremely nice people to be with.
If someone is very controlling and cruel, despite being asked not to be, I have to wonder if that is a sign of an ASD at all, or whether there is any other possibility - could they also be a sociopath? Could they just be a nasty person?
Unfortunately, it tends to only be the 'bad ones' who make the headlines. Mostly, we're great people to have around. Different, but great. |
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chesapeaker
Raven
Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 106
Location: USA - upper Midwest
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| krex wrote: | I don't question your right to be here at all, please don't misunderstand my question. I was just wondering if your daughter was AS to see if she responded differently to you then your husband...ie...AS is a spectrum and can come with other "baggage". I also believe females may present a bit differently then males because we have a different chemical/hormonal make-up.It would actually surprise me if we didn't.
As far as my being AS, I have been DXed but i do question it sometimes because I know that I have a great deal of empathy and expressed it in extreme as a child. I was the little girl pulling drowning bugs out of the swimming pool and sticking up for the "retarded" classmate that people were picking on...I liked her and she was always kind to me. However, if you asked my parents about me they would say I was a selfish, rude, lazy, spac-cadet. I never talked back or destroyed property or harmed them or anyone else and my "meltdowns" were no more then hiding in my room crying when I was overwhelmed. I got good grades in school and was only in trouble for helping classmates instead of staying in my seat<---doesn't sound to aspie does it. But I made them miserable and they said that they knew I was "messed up" by the time I was around 9. They finally kicked me out at 16 because they found living with me to horrible. Honestly, I was just being me and not trying to be a bad person. I still don't really understand. I mean it couldn't have been them...they raised three other kids (though, I was the only adopted one), who seemed fine and are very successful NTs. I just think NT and AS seem to find a lot of trouble just letting each other be "themselves".
I am sorry for your experience with your husband and I realize that there are many kids here who are pretty harsh...but I want to reiterate that many ARE kids and that many of us adults are dealing with the pain of living with AS with no DX and no support and still have none. I would also like to mention that none of my sisters BF's were AS and they beat her regularly and were also very controlling and manipulative. I don't believe this is an AS or NT thing. A bully only needs one thing...power over someone else through the use of fear. I have even seen this in several gay relationships...so it is far from a gender specific thing either. What I do think is consistent and more important is that it is such a part of our society...whether in school,church or employment...that it has become a societal norm. |
I am a very fact based analytical type person. I test the same as most Aspies, INTJ. I have extreme "big picture" thinking based in facts. I was raised Catholic and could see it was bullshit by the time I was two. I could and can grasp large intellectual concepts, like geometry and spew theoroms and such. My ability to remember things is way above average. But, I can look like a complete idiot until I gather enough facts to put the information together.
I have been very sociable and well liked to popular most of my life. I have been looked to as a leader and have been drafted to run for political office and done well. I hated it. Democracy is a great idea, but the personalities it takes to get elected are not usually the ones you want making decisions for you. That is another story, too.
I have several adopted folks in my family. My sister & her husband couldn't have kids. They adopted a wonderful boy the same age as my daughter. One time my dad & mom made a crude comment, to me, about my kids being better because they were biological family. It really pissed me off, because I didn't have any trouble totally loving my nephew as my own kids. I was horrified at what my folks said. Like our family's gene's are so goddam special and should be carried on at all costs!!! What a joke. We have a bunch of depressed drunks that die of cancer. We have good traits, but really, no wonder adopted kids have problems with that attitude. Maybe you are lucky.
Finally, I don't think anybody, anybody, anybody is designed to be perfect. You can spend you time picking yourself and everybody else apart until hell freezes over. People, all people are all crazy & screwed up. My philosophy is get over it and move on. I am glad I found CBT so I have a tool to move on.
P.S. I do like talking to you very much. You probably aren't Aspie technically. But who cares. That is a horrible burden to bear. I feel really sorry for them. People take unfair advantage of them all the time and think it is okay. It isn't. But someone like me who tried to treat them fairly was treated cruelly, that isn't fair either. Oh, well, life isn't fair. |
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equinn
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 755
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: |
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"The eighth tool is Medication. Tony Attwood stressed that medication should only be used short-term to allow Cognitive Behavioural Therapy to work. There should be an exit strategy."
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I like this the best. Tony Atwood has so many positive proactive steps to take to avoid medicating. I like that the 8th tool is medication. Unfortunately, doctors are quick to pull this tool out first! Why is that?
As for the anger management, very informational but it seems to me that these tools are more common sense. Anger is depression tuned inwards (sometimes).
Sometimes, anger is healthy and doesn't require "fixing" because it serves a purpose for more positive change. Some kids/adults have strong convictions. It can be frustrating when they're not being heard. I do agree that anger can get out of control, but I do think it is a healthy emotion and erasing it altogether will, inevitably, cause physical illness and depression (according to the studies).
I think it's better to allow children to be angry in a healthy normal manner. Anger that is violent or physical is never acceptable. But an angry tone seems to me to be okay.
Anger is one of our emotions. I bet MLK was angry. So was Rosa Parks. If Einstein's theory of relativity was disputed, do you think he went outside and gardened? No way. Joan de Arc was surely impassioned and, yes, angry too.
I guess what I'm saying is there is anger and then there is anger. The calmest people I know are either medicated or lacking conviction. They go with the flow and don't question anything. These people are tied up inside, I figure, and what would happen if they did get angry?
Kids need to learn how to get angry to a certain degree and then bring it down not "fix" it as Atwood recommends.
Another point--many kids can't control their aggressive fits because of the medication they are taking. This is unfortunate. How does aparent know? A child as young as eight-years old is taking 3 different psychotropic meds and is having outbursts. Should we take out the emotional toolbox, or consider that the meds are having an adverse effect on the child?
Again, I like the 8th tool idea. Save this one for last if necessary. In fact, don't even consider it until the child is old enough to make these important decisions for him/herself.
equinn |
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chesapeaker
Raven
Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 106
Location: USA - upper Midwest
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: TO KREX |
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| Krex I live with my two Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. I train dogs with a club for training retrievers. I have a wonderful time every day. I am a retired business lawyer/accountant. So, to support my dog habit, I do little jobs for accounting and business formation. I also clean kennels for my dog trainer. I have 2 kids, my daughter 35 and son 31. I have 4 grandkids. My son is extraordinarily intelligent and smart. He has done well, but suffers from low self esteem, too. My daughter & son got that from me. It makes me feel really bad. But they are dealing with it quite effectively, so I am proud of them. |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 6392
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| krex wrote: | ...
As far as my being AS, I have been DXed but i do question it sometimes because I know that I have a great deal of empathy and expressed it in extreme as a child. I was the little ... pulling drowning bugs out of the swimming pool and sticking up for the "retarded" classmate that people were picking on...I liked her and she was always kind to me. However, if you asked my parents about me they would say I was a selfish, rude, lazy, spac-cadet. I never talked back or destroyed property or harmed them or anyone else and my "meltdowns" were no more then hiding in my room crying when I was overwhelmed. I got good grades in school and was only in trouble for helping classmates instead of staying in my seat<---doesn't sound to aspie does it.
... |
GEE, it sounds aspie to me! It sounds like me! Who said it wasn't? As for retarded people, those I knew about had big problems. My step brother, for example, will CONSTANTLY great you! ALMOST like "10 second tom" in "Fifty first dates", but EVERY time! I want to STAY AWAY from him because he would drive me NUTS! Still, I would be against anyone hurting him, etc...
The idea of empathy seems to be misplaced. FEW here seem to agree it is TRULY a problem.
As for being selfish? The idea of wanting ones own privacy and things is considered selfish EVEN WHEN NOT! I was once called selfish because I wanted to buy a woman fries!!!!!!! WHY?!?!?!? Because SHE wanted MINE! I wanted to buy her OWN for her. SHE was selfish, because her taking my fries would deny ME my fries! HOW could I have been considered selfish?
RUDE? That is a GIVEN with AS! EVERYONE recognizes that!
LAZY? If you work on your INTERESTS, they see THAT as lazy because you aren't doing what THEY want!
Space Cadet? AS people are mentally different, and "Space Cadet" is a pejorative term for that!
As for the meltdown? Did you read how I described meltdown, or MY meltdown? I said I figured one was the basis of ALL meltdowns, that was the one I have, and it is just like yours!
BTW I ALSO help other students!
So your statements seem to CONFIRM AS more than hurt it!  If you find a better match, let me know! |
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chesapeaker
Raven
Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 106
Location: USA - upper Midwest
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| little-bird wrote: | | chesapeaker wrote: | | Aspies don't have that part of the brain to even comprehend empathy or the fact someone needs something from them. |
| chesapeaker wrote: | First things Aspies do is get threatened if they don't hear something they don't like and CANNOT even begin to comprehend, because that part of their brain is not functioning, or missing or whatever. It makes me feel bad. I am very very patient about it. But you have to understand, sometimes us NT's get really impatient with the marginal relationship and need a break. It is like playing tennis with someone who doesn't understand they are supposed to return the ball. The whole point of the tennis game is lost, and eventually you give up lobbing balls that are never returned.
I wonder if you are Aspie either, because you do return the ball pretty well. Because Aspies are totally incapable of understanding us NT's and where we are coming from, they make us out be be abusers and monsters. Too bad, because Aspies totally miss the patience and love and support we offer and in turn are mean to us. You can see it all over this site. I am getting lots of insight into my 14 yr fiasco and feeling much better. |
This hurts chesapeaker.
Just because your husband/some people are unresponsive, lack empathy or have empathy but lack the ability to express it, get threatened, are controlling, etc., does not therefore mean all people with Aspergers are like this. That is a gross generalisation. Furthermore, I would like to point out that all of these qualities are found in all sorts of people, regardless of whatever labels, categories, denominations, or diagnoses people care to slap on them.
You say aspies are 'mean to us. You can see it all over this site.' Sure, there are some harsh words, spitefulness, and textual abuse. Have a little compassion. This is a place for us aspies to try to come to term with problems, to vent our frustrations, and angers, and find a bit of understanding through others that share our experiences. Many people here are hurting, or angry, or frustrated, or lonely and feel very alienated. Many feel a frightening sense of injustice, and a lack of tolerance and deeper insight, not only from our loved ones, but also the general community, and our own therapists, psychologists, etc. Many of us feel deeply misunderstood, and have spent much of our lives curled up in a place somewhere, crying inside. Or like we are trapped inside an invisible cage, screaming for help, and for someone to understand us, but nobody hears. And then when somebody says things like we have no empathy, it feels like being kicked in the guts.
Okay, you have been hurt by your aspie husband. I'm sorry that happened to you. Please don't take it out on us. One individual does not stand for all the other individuals lumped under a collective term.
:cry: |
I am sorry this hurts.
I am sorry this comes across so negative, because there was lots of positive. But I am trying to heal, too. Maybe some Aspies might learn what not to do and take proactive action so they don't ruin their relationships. There is so much more to our relationship than what a person can write here. I hope I balanced it out a little. The bottom line, being stuck in victim behavior to NT's isn't going to get you anywhere. |
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equinn
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 755
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: |
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How did this thread turn into an emotional venting session? Bizarre. I read the first couple of posts about Atwood's conference-and was interested. Then I come upon these other autobiographical excerpts, emotional spilling, and realize that my post was so out of context.
Cathartic or not, this is a pure example of what causes depression and self-loathing. You couldn't pay me to read some of these posts! They are way too long and oprahish seeming.
equinn |
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chesapeaker
Raven
Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 106
Location: USA - upper Midwest
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: |
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One thing I have learned about my own victim behavior: I will keep repeating trying stupid things that don't get me what I want or need until the light goes on that I am being a victim.
Second thing: Be patient, the light will eventually go on.
Third: Don't put off your life until the light goes on. |
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chesapeaker
Raven
Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 106
Location: USA - upper Midwest
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| equinn wrote: | How did this thread turn into an emotional venting session? Bizarre. I read the first couple of posts about Atwood's conference-and was interested. Then I come upon these other autobiographical excerpts, emotional spilling, and realize that my post was so out of context.
Cathartic or not, this is a pure example of what causes depression and self-loathing. You couldn't pay me to read some of these posts! They are way too long and oprahish seeming.
equinn |
Oh, yeah, one other point: Apsie's are really good at discounting other people. |
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Zonder
Give me a minute, I'm thinking.
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 1169
Location: Sitting on my sofa.
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: |
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The last several posts illustrate how we tend to view NT vrs. ASD depending on our personal experience, and that there is a great deal of pain and hurt on both sides. I wonder, though, if a bigger picture is being missed.
Two examples of the extremes voiced here are:
If you were treated badly (up to physical and emotional torture) by "NT" parents and teachers, NTs become another tribe with which you will not negotiate, and NTs are invalid and probably always will be. This is a valid position based on experience.
If you were treated badly (up to physical and emotional torture) by an ASD spouse or partner, you believe that all of those with Asperger Syndrome are belligerent children with the emotional development of a nine-year-old, and if someone isn't that emotionally stunted, how can they have AS? This too is a valid position based on experience.
Neither view takes into account the vast variety of human behavior (by the way, we are all human), or that those with Autism Spectrum brain wiring have different personality types and degrees of self-awareness.
If you have a nasty and belligerent personality, you will treat people badly whether you are NT or ASD. If you are meek and sweet natured you might treat everyone well, but also be a potential target for bullies, whether you are ASD or NT.
If, as someone with an ASD or AS, you don't understand why people react to you badly, and you need to control others and your environment to get through a neurologically overstimulating day, the lack of understanding why and internal frustration can quickly turn into anger. If an NT doesn't understand why someone is reacting to them in a certain way, and doesn't care to understand the person's reaction or their own emotional response, frustration can quickly lead to anger.
From my undiagnosed view, I have experienced and observed both sides and offer the following. Be warned: I have not been officially diagnosed with AS (although my psychotherapist thinks it is likely), and my personal experience has been very different from anyone else I have met.
1. Self-awareness (understanding why I am the way I am, and how I might be different from other people) should be a goal of everyone. Through understanding ourselves, we can more effectively deal with others and ourselves. In my experience, when someone with AS lacks self-awareness and a degree of understanding as to what the heck is going on, frustration can lead to anger which can lead to taking it out on the people closest to you. Or, in the opposite extreme, it can lead to internalizing, anxiety, and self-harm.
2. Take what works for you from the likes of Tony Attwood, Aaron Beck, Elain Aron, Sharon Heller and Michael Brown, or even Temple Grandin and Donna Williams. I've not found any author or method of dealing with ASD traits or other people that covers everything. There is not one author that offers a complete system of dealing with what I experience, and some of what they write I feel is flat-out wrong. But just because these authors aren't "perfect" doesn't mean that they have nothing to offer. I've learned from all of them.
3. Remember that children are impressionable, and that they don't have the ability to filter ideas in ways that adults do. Self-help only works if it helps a child understand difference and how to deal with difference, but not if it creates a mindset of superiority or disability. Neither mindset, when taken to an extreme is healthy, or wholly accurate.
Z
Last edited by Zonder on Sun May 25, 2008 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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chesapeaker
Raven
Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 106
Location: USA - upper Midwest
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Equinn I went back and read the beginning that Smelena wrote. It was your "victim" statements about how your misunderstanding of what CBT does and how it screwed up your life is how this thread got changed. Do back & check it out. It is there.
CBT does work. It just doesn't guarantee a static perfect life. It teaches you how to cope with the ongoing chaos of life so it doesn't snow you under. |
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