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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 46
Posts: 5090
Location: Village of the Damned
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 Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Off topic but..... I refused to look in the mirror and say "your beautiful".... I told my therapist that I was more then willing to look in the mirror and say.."you are a hideous monster<---(I thought that was funny  ) but you have some good qualities that some people will like if they are not to superficial.
My therapist didn't think that was very funny 
I think that there may be some validity in getting rid of false messages that we have been told by others and carry around like they are ours...but I don't think it is helpful to replace them with other false statements told to us by others (just because they are nicer).
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Zonder
Give me a minute, I'm thinking.
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 1169
Location: Sitting on my sofa.
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| krex wrote: | | I think that there may be some validity in getting rid of false messages that we have been told by others and carry around like they are ours...but I don't think it is helpful to replace them with other false statements told to us by others (just because they are nicer). |
Being objective and realistic about oneself is difficult but important to strive towards. Maybe I don't understand how other people use/teach CBT, but the last thing I want to do is replace a falsehood I think about myself with another, happier falsehood.
Z |
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 3541
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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That blows Attwood's credibility for me. I am not wrong, just different, and lying is not the answer.
12 Psychobabble steps to being manipulated by NT's.
"Be true to yourself and you will be false to no man." |
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zen_mistress
* ENFP *
Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Age: 32
Posts: 2199
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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I think that CBT for anger management is a style that can be useful for some. I think the thermometer thing is a good idea. I realised recently that I lacked the awareness of the things that really, really made me angry or upset, and I discounted the potency of these triggers because the triggers are different to those of other people.
For example, my biggest anger triggers are usually:
- Someone invading my personal space. I have been known to hit people on planes or crowded transport.
or,
- World events and politics. I usually get really angry and upset when watching the news or CNN, seeing injustice and corruption, I dont really watch it anymore, instead I watch "The Nanny" at 6pm which is not anger-inducing though it is a little cheesy.
So I think the thermometer is a good idea. It is important to figure out what really makes the self angry or upset and have strategies to get away from the situation if possible.
I have read some books by therapists though that encourage the person to analyse their thoughts, tell themselves they are "awfulising" or that their angry thoughts are not based in reality. I dont like that approach as much, I dont think it is so good to be analysing thoughts all the time.
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Words are flowing out like endless rain into a paper cup,
They slither while they pass, they slip away across the universe
~ The Beatles
Site for H: http://www.hyperacusis.net |
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theQuail
Sea Gull
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Joined: Dec 10, 2007
Posts: 233
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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A therapist made me try CBT for a few months for social anxiety (I complied), but it didn't do much. I'd heard that it took some time for a reduction in anxiety to become apparent and believed it, so it wasn't a reverse placebo effect or whatever that would be. Something that really confused me was how to fill in the thermometer. (A personal issue, not something I have against CBT) Obviously a 0 on the scale would be perfectly relaxed, and a 10 would be a full-blown anxiety attack, but how do I measure my anxiety when it isn't so obvious... like it usually is? I had to resort to tying the numbers to severity and type of physical symptoms, which I didn't think was accurate enough. Watching for and recording irrational thoughts was another problem. I find it hard to monitor my internal monologue, because consciously listening to it when not very relaxed completely stops it. It did not become easier to monitor with practice. A final issue I took with CBT... I have always doubted and questioned all my thoughts, including anxious thoughts. Sometimes I keep thinking those anxious thoughts because they aren't that irrational.
Eventually I found that my natural tendency to become more misanthropic over time did more to reduce the self-consciousness than CBT. *shrugs* |
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skeeterhawk
Raven
Joined: Feb 09, 2008
Age: 62
Posts: 118
Location: Southeast
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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I want to say that I found CBT group therapy to be a big help a few years before I got diagnosed. I continue to use it as a framework for dealing with my daily challenges. I think that CBT, like any other process, has to be understood and applied with a deep understanding of the complexities. Atwood's steps can look like silly "Polonius" quotes, but that does not mean they can't be extremely useful and effective. (I realize how many of these I have discovered for myself over the years - and wish I had found earlier).
In tapes that I have seen of Tony Atwood, he often seems a little to flip and un-serious in demeanor for my taste. I like his ideas but am not always comfortable with the presentation. Perhaps that is true with the conference information presented here as well. I keep telling myself that such a tone may fit many minds very well (minds other than mine) so I should sit on my hands and let others use what they can. And when it is all over, I will probably get some good stuff despite my unease! |
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Belfast
Vast Ambivalence
Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Age: 36
Posts: 1718
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Don't bear ill will towards those trying to share info. on technique that's been helpful to that person or persons. So long as no one's trying to say that if I don't cooperate (with this method) then I'm complicit in keeping myself in pain & misery/needless suffering-as if that were my decision ! Individuals have ways that feel right to each of them/us & it's good to have multiple possibilities as to what would seem a fitting/proper coping mechanism, for the variety/range of persons with this dx.
CBT utterly rubs me the wrong way-just thinking about it makes me angry-conflicts with many of my basic beliefs (not just the problematic ones) & not in a way that makes me feel CBT is gonna' remedy/overhaul my entire personality. That's not to say it's of no positive use, to some extent for some people some of the time-finding a compatible tool for the instance one is confronted with is the crux.
For those for whom it works, it works-but that's not everyone. It's a tool and not every tool is right for every job/case/person. To compare to something wholly different yet has commonalities-aspirin is tool which doesn't help all people with all problems & can actually be quite harmful/toxic. Most tools are not simply all good nor all bad, it's in the application...
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*"You cannot administer a wicked law impartially-it destroys everyone it touches, its violators as well as its upholders."* |
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Ryn
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 512
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I read the description of people with AS and emotional management and it sounded exactly like me. I do okay, but I might go over the notes in more detail later just to see if I might gather anything from them.
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"I myself am made entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions."--Augusten Burroughs |
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asplanet
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 11, 2007
Posts: 2269
Location: Cyberspace, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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While I agree CBT is a tool and if it helps thats great, but others do have to remember we are all different individuals, not text book ideas...
I feel so much still is unknown about people on the autism spectrum and that maybe its about time more people tried to understand and allow for our differences, not change them...
What is CBT to control when and how we should be, the biggest trigger as I see it is lack of being understood!
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"Believe in your self, we are who we are - as it can feel like an endless task trying to be someone else!" Aspergers Parallel Planet web site - http://asplanet.info/index.php
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chesapeaker
Raven
Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 106
Location: USA - upper Midwest
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: CBT |
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| CBT helped me because I was raised pretty to feel guilty all the time (Irish Catholic) and I was to blame for everything (not rational, I know, but that is how it felt.) CBT helped me sort out what was real thinking and what wasn't. It was difficult at first, but I got the hang of it. It has helped me detach from a lot of unnecessary guilt. |
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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 46
Posts: 5090
Location: Village of the Damned
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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One of the roblems with CBT is that that is hat gets funded by most insurence companies. That and medications are the fastest and cheapest ways to behavior modification. I think it is only destructive when it is seen as effective for anyone and if you are nnot helped by it , you are then blamed for being stubbornly resistent. I think it all depends on the ability and intellegence of the counslor using it as one tool. Like any tool, (think scalpel or chainsaw), the result in part is based on the skill of the welder of that tool. It was my misfortune to rn into a lot of "hacks" who had little intellgence or lacked information to understand AS cognition. (That was in the 80's) I still would hesitate to see any therapist who was not aware of AS traits and did not place value judgements on people who think or choose to live "differntly".
I don't think Tony Atwood is trying to create NT clones. He appears to me to have a lot of respect for AS differences and just want us to function as well as we can in a neurologicaly different and challenging world.
_________________
Just because one plane is flying out of formation, doesnt mean the formation is on course....R.D.Lang
Visit my crafts store
http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5412685 |
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asplanet
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 11, 2007
Posts: 2269
Location: Cyberspace, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| krex wrote: | | I don't think Tony Atwood is trying to create NT clones. He appears to me to have a lot of respect for AS differences and just want us to function as well as we can in a neurologicaly different and challenging world. |
Well said I agree, but far to few professionals with his attitude around...
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"Believe in your self, we are who we are - as it can feel like an endless task trying to be someone else!" Aspergers Parallel Planet web site - http://asplanet.info/index.php
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 59
Posts: 13249
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| Inventor wrote: | That blows Attwood's credibility for me. I am not wrong, just different, and lying is not the answer.
12 Psychobabble steps to being manipulated by NT's.
"Be true to yourself and you will be false to no man." |
we missed learning to trust by trusting those who taught us not to trust, Inventor.
we missed what ever boat the young ones might get to sail on.
Merle |
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nannarob
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 14, 2007
Posts: 1349
Location: Queensland
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:17 am Post subject: |
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There are some NT's such as Tony Attwood who do not want to create NT clones. The majority of NT parents on this forum do not want to create NT clones. I would hate to see my grandsons transformed into something that they are not.
These NT's burn themselves out to create a better environment, social justice, accommodation in the environment.
What most NT's on this forum want is the ability for aspies to function with less pain. We cannot imagine how many members have survived thus far.
We see the pain of our family. We want them to have some control; the alternative is frequent meltdowns for my grandsons.
Some strategies do not work for all. But there is no plot to transform Aspies. That takes place on another site!
Robyn
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NEVER EVER GIVE UP
I think there must be some chronic learning disability that is so prevalent among NT's that it goes unnoticed by the "experts". Krex
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5349
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| Belfast wrote: | | CBT conflicts with many of my basic beliefs (not just the problematic ones)... |
I am interested/curious; in what way does it do that? What beliefs does it conflict with?
I know that I feel that way. CBT does seem, when taken to its logical conclusion, to have profound philosophical/spiritual implications, which I think I am in deep disagreement with. But would love to know what you mean more exactly.
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