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| Do you want to get rid of the jail/prison system? |
| no, it serves a reason and it "protects" the public |
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20% |
[ 2 ] |
| yes, its inhumane and cruel and just creates problems |
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50% |
[ 5 ] |
| I dont care, why would I? |
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10% |
[ 1 ] |
| I going to have to plead the fifth ammendment here, on basis that I might incriminate me. |
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20% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 10 |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2066
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 Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| D1nk0 wrote: |
Dream On Bro! Thats TOTALLY unconstitutional and is simply NOT going to happen(thank G-d!). You are FOOL not to realize that when it comes to muderers, death is very much a RELEASE. The murder victim is dead, their suffering is over. It is the Family of the victim that continues to suffer for the rest of their lives because of what the murderer did to their loved one. There ARE things worse than death you know. I firmly believe that it is a MUCH more fitting punishment for a murderer to spend the rest of their life in Living Hell; which is EXACTLY what the prison rape experience is all about  . I havent an ounce of patience or tolerance BTW for spineless right-wing BONEHEADS who believe that Drug Trafficking is a capital offense. Such imbeciles have campaigned in VAIN to get their banal ideas codified into law, nice going guys  . |
Then your idea is to torture. Torturing is against all principles and should be looked down upon. You wouldn't be so supportive of prison rape if you had family in prison or you yourself entered prison (how many people have been wrongfully accused?).
I really don't believe in supporting a criminal for life. Drug traffickers should be put to death. Look at the hell they are causing in Mexico and Colombia? Spineless are those bastards who feel it is a desired and necessary lifestyle.
_________________
I'm no democRAT, I'm a republiCAN! |
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Jacob_Landshire
Sea Gull
Joined: Mar 26, 2006
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: |
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I once read that long prison terms are a relatively new development. In the old days they would use the pillory or stocks to humiliate and physically discomfort petty criminals. Serious crimes were punished by public hanging.
Those methods worked just fine for the people of the time. Crime was uncommon and the justice system operated on a budget so much smaller than today’s that is makes comparisons almost meaningless. The USA spends $30,000 to $40,000 dollars to house one inmate for one year. Combine that with cost of courts, attorneys, and police you have a system that costs more to catch and punish a law-breaker then it does for the average person pay for his living expenses.
_________________
There is no reason to suppress a viewpoint unless it is true, because a false viewpoint can easily be combated with facts and logic, while the truth cannot be combated except by lies which are vulnerable to refutation. |
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Macbeth
Thane of Bar and Cellar
Joined: May 28, 2007
Posts: 1725
Location: UK Doncaster
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | It would all be solved if murderers, rapists, and drug traffickers were shot before entering prison. |
You would still make them go to prison? Or are you just thinking of knee-capping them...?
on the OP.. the way the prison system is run may be flawed, but that doesnt neccesarily mean that the system or concept itself is wrong. The liberal concepts of early release, rehabilitation, open prisons, and mis-applied bail are wrecking my country and getting my people killed, so I would be wary of applying them to yours for fear of the same.
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"Mindset of an aristocrat, budget of a tramp" ZGM
"I dont have to know I'm your first if I already know I'm the best" ZGM
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Sand
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 2150
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| It seems extremely obvious that an offender placed in a brutal sequestered society for a specific period of time has little if any relationship to discovering why and how a person has offended society. What is needed is discovering how the attitudes that placed him or her there might be suitably modified so that on return to the outside he or she will become a useful civilian. In all this probably would be an intricate and expensive and even a long time project of great expense. It might also have great long time rewards to society. I doubt society would be willing to lay out the proper procedures on those terms so it is likely the misery will continue. |
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grain-and-field
Toucan
Joined: Mar 08, 2008
Posts: 278
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| wow, you guys are the kings of bullshit... |
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phil777
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: May 21, 2008
Age: 22
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Well, depends what the people want, personnally i still think criminals should be punished, but with the abuse of power that's infecting the system being translated by free violence and torture, there should be some other way. Heck, already being detained is a big deal enough. (for me it would) |
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D1nk0
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Torture you say? TBPH describing the sexual assault of violent felons as torture makes you sound like a liberal crybaby.
Jail isnt supposed to be Fun! Speaking of the falsely accused, you do realize though that Execution is IRREVERSABLE and
there is the VERY grave potential that innocent people will be executed, which is why I believe that if capital punishment is going to allowed there should be severe restrictions on its use-I.E.: a death sentence should only be carried out of if the defendent was convicted based on PHYSICAL EVIDENCE(think Habeas Corpus)!
| oscuria wrote: | | D1nk0 wrote: |
Dream On Bro! Thats TOTALLY unconstitutional and is simply NOT going to happen(thank G-d!). You are FOOL not to realize that when it comes to muderers, death is very much a RELEASE. The murder victim is dead, their suffering is over. It is the Family of the victim that continues to suffer for the rest of their lives because of what the murderer did to their loved one. There ARE things worse than death you know. I firmly believe that it is a MUCH more fitting punishment for a murderer to spend the rest of their life in Living Hell; which is EXACTLY what the prison rape experience is all about . I havent an ounce of patience or tolerance BTW for spineless right-wing BONEHEADS who believe that Drug Trafficking is a capital offense. Such imbeciles have campaigned in VAIN to get their banal ideas codified into law, nice going guys . |
Then your idea is to torture. Torturing is against all principles and should be looked down upon. You wouldn't be so supportive of prison rape if you had family in prison or you yourself entered prison (how many people have been wrongfully accused?).
I really don't believe in supporting a criminal for life. Drug traffickers should be put to death. Look at the hell they are causing in Mexico and Colombia? Spineless are those bastards who feel it is a desired and necessary lifestyle. |
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phil777
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: May 21, 2008
Age: 22
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Hrm, i don't recall saying jail had to be fun, i did say criminals should be punished, but that torture should be avoided. Isn't there enough pain already in this sad world? |
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Speckles
Velociraptor
Joined: May 03, 2008
Posts: 448
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Jacob_Landshire wrote: | I once read that long prison terms are a relatively new development. In the old days they would use the pillory or stocks to humiliate and physically discomfort petty criminals. Serious crimes were punished by public hanging.
Those methods worked just fine for the people of the time. Crime was uncommon and the justice system operated on a budget so much smaller than today’s that is makes comparisons almost meaningless. The USA spends $30,000 to $40,000 dollars to house one inmate for one year. Combine that with cost of courts, attorneys, and police you have a system that costs more to catch and punish a law-breaker then it does for the average person pay for his living expenses. |
Yeah, but IMO they are necessary costs to prevent facist control. Without checks and balances, there's nothing to stop a government from just hanging anyone they don't like. I can't think of a single country without a complicated and somewhat forgiving judicial system that I'd want to live in. While it costs more, the fact that citizens trust the governement to give them fair trials and trust that if there is injustice they will have some recourse benefits society greatly. Combine that with the feeling that they are relatively safe, and you've got the best method for preventing rebellion and terrorism developed so far. |
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Jacob_Landshire
Sea Gull
Joined: Mar 26, 2006
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Speckles wrote: | | Without checks and balances, there's nothing to stop a government from just hanging anyone they don't like. |
Hanging serious offenders doesn't mean they won't get due process and a fair trial.
| Speckles wrote: | | Combine that with the feeling that they are relatively safe, and you've got the best method for preventing rebellion and terrorism developed so far. |
Preventing rebellion and terrorism? I thought we were talking about common crime and punishment. 99.99% of the criminal justice system deals with non-political cases. They have special procedures and prisons for the other .01% LOL.
_________________
There is no reason to suppress a viewpoint unless it is true, because a false viewpoint can easily be combated with facts and logic, while the truth cannot be combated except by lies which are vulnerable to refutation. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2066
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| D1nk0 wrote: | Torture you say? TBPH describing the sexual assault of violent felons as torture makes you sound like a liberal crybaby.
Jail isnt supposed to be Fun! Speaking of the falsely accused, you do realize though that Execution is IRREVERSABLE and
there is the VERY grave potential that innocent people will be executed, which is why I believe that if capital punishment is going to allowed there should be severe restrictions on its use-I.E.: a death sentence should only be carried out of if the defendent was convicted based on PHYSICAL EVIDENCE(think Habeas Corpus)!
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I was under the impression that jail was a blast!
Listen, if you were imprisoned wrongfully (let us say for rape considering that many have been wrongfully accused), more than likely you too will be raped. How accepting of the "jailhouse justice" would you be?
_________________
I'm no democRAT, I'm a republiCAN! |
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D1nk0
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | D1nk0 wrote: | Torture you say? TBPH describing the sexual assault of violent felons as torture makes you sound like a liberal crybaby.
Jail isnt supposed to be Fun! Speaking of the falsely accused, you do realize though that Execution is IRREVERSABLE and
there is the VERY grave potential that innocent people will be executed, which is why I believe that if capital punishment is going to allowed there should be severe restrictions on its use-I.E.: a death sentence should only be carried out of if the defendent was convicted based on PHYSICAL EVIDENCE(think Habeas Corpus)!
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I was under the impression that jail was a blast!
Listen, if you were imprisoned wrongfully (let us say for rape considering that many have been wrongfully accused), more than likely you too will be raped. How accepting of the "jailhouse justice" would you be? |
Well I certainly wouldnt be very accepting of it at all now, would I  . What I think is that IF a falsely accused person is raped in prison, they should be able to file a Class Action Lawsuit against the prison system-including personal suits against the guards who set it up! But Oscuria, if you're so concerned about the falsely accused that How can you justify the Death Penalty?!?
You do understand that once a person is executed that can be NO RECOURSE OR REPARATIONS TO THAT INDIVIDUAL BECAUSE THEY ARE DEAD!  |
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D1nk0
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Lemme give you folks an outstanding example of *Jailhouse Justice* (BTW,FYI, I am NOT being sarcastic here!!) :
Surely most of you folks have heard all about serial killer JEFFREY DAHMER by now; who for some twisted reason a Lot of straight White women who are true crime buffs really seem to feel sorry for him because he was gay . Dahmer was sentenced to multiple consecutive life sentences for the 17 men he killed and mutilated cuz his trial and conviction took place in Minnesota which doesnt have capital punishment. 2 years into his sentence he was raped and then savagely beaten to death by another inmate(a Brotha named Charles Scarver  ). What happnend to Mr. Dahmer was poetic justice-he died a death just as violent and gruesome as he had inflicted on victims. If he had been sentenced to death and/or were in Protective Custody, he'd Still be alive today writing his memoires, reading fan mail, and doing TV interviews. Not to mention he would be excuted in a very humane fashion. So THAT is a good example of why Im such a believer in Prison Justice . |
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twoshots
Honorary Vertebrate
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2185
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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The way inmates can and do treat each other is cruel and unusual; the system is unjust irrespective of whether the people are wrongfully accused or not. A governing body has no right to subject even delinquents and high criminals to certain things.
_________________
"The free man will ask neither what his country can do for him nor what he can do for his country."
-Milton Friedman |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2066
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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It goes against my beliefs, religion, and principles to subject a person to such treatments. If a person is going to be killed, put him to death--not brutalize him. That to me is an act committed by animals, supported by animals. The Law is something that should be respected, yes the Law fails at times, but it is still the Law and should be respected. In such an event, there should be a rewriting of laws that ensure punishment to be executed justly and with the trial, defendant, and victims in mind.
_________________
I'm no democRAT, I'm a republiCAN! |
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