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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
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 Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: | Tell me, skafather84, when will the Jews not be a threat in your mind anymore? When they are completely wiped out?
Hitler did half the job. Do you wish he was allowed to continue unabated? |
it's not about the jews you worthless piece of humanoid scum. |
Apparently it is. News to skafather: Israel is about the Jews. |
israel isn't about the jews. |
Yes it is! You can attempt to assuage your anti-Semitism by calling it anti-Israelism,
but it's the same thing. |
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
read it, you ignorant scum. |
Are you suggesting that Jews can't be anti-Semitic?
Please tell me you're serious, so I can start a thread chalk-full of evidence
blasting that claim to oblivion, because the "self-hating Jew" is so common,
he became a cliché long ago.
Degrees of self-hatred are common among Jews, particular the lamenting of their
status as Jews, an identity which makes them ripe targets for anti-Semitism.
And many more try to rationalize the world's anti-Semitism by granting it a degree,
and sometimes much more than a degree, of validity.
Would you really like a list of anti-Semitic Jewish authors?
Surely, you are not that poorly-read. 
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org. |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Yes it is, no matter who says otherwise.
Israel is not hurting anyone at all,
and is in fact one of the chief exporters of world humanitarian aid,
and highly disproportionally so for its small size.
First see: http://www.israaid.org.il/,
then read:
| Quote: | The Israel Defense Forces (IDF), in cooperation with the Gaza District Coordination and Liaison Office as well as international aid organizations, have brought food, supplies and fuel to Gaza's civilian population in order to assist Palestinian humanitarian needs after the Iran-backed terrorist organization Hamas violently seized total control of the Gaza Strip June 25. [1]
Additionally, nearly 50 Palestinian patients have been transferred by the IDF to Israeli hospitals for medical treatment.
Despite numerous security risks to the IDF, the delivery of aid continues. It is transported via four main crossing sites: Map of Crossings Courtesy of the BBC
1. Kerem Shalom has been the main crossing for humanitarian aid into the Gaza Strip since June 15, 2007. However, it was closed from June 25-26 due to rocket attacks launched from Gaza. On July 9, two rockets were fired at the crossing; one made a direct hit.
2. Sufa is primarily a back-up for the Kerem Shalom crossing in the event of rocket attacks. It is also used as a point to transfer supplies, food and medical equipment to Gaza.
3. Erez is an international crossing used for the passage of foreign and Palestinian employees of international organizations, diplomats and urgent humanitarian cases. As of June 18, Erez was re-opened to foreign journalists. Nearly 350 foreigners have used this crossing to leave the Gaza Strip, in addition to several hundred Palestinian refugees. This crossing also has been used to bring Red Cross workers and equipment into the Gaza Strip.
4. Nahal Oz has been used to transfer fuel to the Gaza Strip since June 15. Thousands of liters of gasoline and petrol, as well as millions of liters of diesel fuel have been pumped into Gaza.
Medical Aid to the Gaza Strip
The following is a list of the medical aid the Israel Defense Forces has enabled to pass through border-crossings following the Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip:
June 19, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
30 tons of medical supplies
5 Palestinians were transferred to Israeli hospitals to obtain medical treatment
June 20, 2007
Erez Crossing:
Medical Supplies
98,000 vaccines against chicken pox, tuberculosis, tetanus and rubella
9 Palestinians were transferred by the IDF to Israeli hospitals to obtain medical treatment
June 21, 2007
Erez Crossing:
2 Red Cross surgeons went into Gaza to assist area hospitals
8 Palestinians were transferred to Israeli hospitals to obtain medical treatment
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
7 tons of disinfectants
June 22, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
Medical supplies for dialysis
5 Palestinians were transferred by the IDF to Israeli hospitals to obtain medical treatment
June 24, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
A truck containing medicine
June 26, 2007
Sufa Crossing:
A truck of medical supplies donated by international organizations
June 27, 2007
Erez Crossing:
50,000 vaccinations
22 Palestinians were transferred to Israeli hospitals to obtain medical treatment
July 1, 2007
Kerem Shalom, Sufa and Erez Crossings:
5 tons of medical equipment for babies
11 lbs (5 kg) of medical equipment
8,433 vaccines
July 2, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
20 trucks of aid, including medical supplies
July 3, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
22 tons of medicine and powdered milk
3 truckloads of medicine and medical equipment
July 8-13, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
1,050 tons of supplies, including medical supplies
Sufa crossing:
8,880 tons of supplies, including medical supplies
July 15-19, 2007
Sufa Crossing:
5,411 tons of supplies including medical supplies
Humanitarian Aid to the Gaza Strip
The following is a list of humanitarian aid (food and supplies) that, through the coordination of the IDF, was delivered from Israel into Gaza through border-crossings following the Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip:
June 19, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
200 tons of basic food products
June 20, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
200 tons of flour
40 tons of meat
23,775 gal (90,000 liters) of milk
6,604 gal (25,000 liters) of cooking oil
June 21, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
130 tons of flour
49 tons of rice
49 tons of sugar
5 tons of tea
8 tons of milk powder
33 tons of crushed lentils
19.7 tons of lentils
30 tons of margarine
18.5 tons of barley
34 tons of macaroni
20 tons of beans
15 tons of humus
2 tons of soup
June 22, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
19,813 gal (75,000 liters) of milk
o 120 tons of animal feed
June 24, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
20 trucks containing sugar, cooking oil, eggs and milk products
Sufa Crossing:
537 tons of animal feed
581 tons of straw
June 26, 2007
Sufa Crossing:
38,569 gal (146,000 liters) of milk
733 tons of animal feed
150 tons of flour (with an additional 292 tons donated by international organizations)
473 tons of sugar
3 trucks of seedlings
A truck of reproductive eggs
A truck of food packages and a truck of domestic equipment donated by international organizations
June 27, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
24 trucks of humanitarian aid
Sufa Crossing:
581 tons of animal feed
319 tons of straw
327 tons of sugar
164 tons of flour
5 tons of semolina
37,777 gal (143,000 liters) of oil
134 tons of rice
27 tons of seedlings
32 tons of salt
30 tons of baby formula
6,340 gal (24,000 liters) hypochlorite (water purifier)
June 28, 2007
Kerem Shalom and Sufa Crossings:
569 tons of animal feed
269 tons of flour and 7 more truckloads
222 tons of straw
187 tons of sugar
143 tons of bananas
9 truckloads of fruit
98 tons of salt
78 tons of cooking oil
28 tons of humus
12 tons of milk powder
7,925 gal (30,000 liters) of milk
661,386 lbs (300,000 kg) of seedlings
Karni Crossing:
480 tons of wheat seeds
June 30, 2007
Kerem Shalom, Sufa and Erez Crossings:
676 tons of sugar
637 tons of straw
375 tons of animal feed
191 tons of fruit
159 tons of salt
30,664 gal (116,000 liters) of cooking oil
79 tons of bananas
18,756 gal (71,000 liters) of milk
36 tons of rice
36 tons of tea
33 tons of meat
5,548 gal (21,000 liters) of hypochlorite (water purifier)
20 tons of coffee
20 tons of cocoa
14 tons of milk powder
4 tons of fertilized eggs
10 tons of diapers
July 2, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
20 trucks containing fruit, milk products, baby diapers, meat, medical supplies, fertilized eggs and oil
Sufa Crossing:
556 tons of animal feed
530 tons of straw
360 tons of sugar
264 tons of flour
205 tons of salt
20,605 gal (78,000 liters) of oil
61 tons of spices
48 tons of rice
49 tons of halva
39 tons of bananas
54 tons of jam
23 tons of carrots
30 tons of barley
29 tons of humus
40 tons of corn
20 tons of hypochlorite (water purifier)
14 tons of canned meat
6.5 tons of tea
100 tons of powdered milk
July 3, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
22 tons of medicine and powdered milk
40 tons of frozen meat
66 tons of dairy products
59 tons of meat
5 tons of fertilized eggs
115 tons of fruit
42 tons of bananas
2 truckloads of disposable diapers
Sufa Crossing:
423 tons of animal feed
505 tons of straw
321 tons of sugar
354 tons of flour
74 tons of salt
28 tons of spices
28 tons of pasta
14 tons of canned food
29 tons of tomato sauce
26 tons of fine flour
24 tons of tuna
27 tons of peanuts
14 tons of jam
13 tons of cooking oil
7 tons of hyssop
22 tons of canned full
7 tons of raspberry juice powder
July 8-13, 2007
Kerem Shalom Crossing:
1,050 tons of supplies, including food, dairy products, meat products, fruit, cooking oil and reproductive eggs
Sufa Crossing:
8,880 tons of supplies, including food, dairy products, flour, sugar, reproductive eggs, rice, cooking oil, straw, animal feed and raw food materials
Karni Crossing:
4,180 tons of wheat seed
July 15-19, 2007
Sufa Crossing:
5,411 tons of supplies, including pasta, fruit, fish, dairy products, flour, sugar, meat, rice, cooking oil, straw, seedlings, spices, candy and diapers
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http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/c.hsJPK0PIJpH/b.3051755/k.813A/IDF_Coordinates_Aid_to_the_Gaza_Strip.htm
Therefore, objecting to Israel's mere existance apart from hatred of the Jews is an illogical and ultimately untenable position;
the facts just don't support such thinking.
The Palestinians in Israel have the highest standard of living
in the entire Middle East.
Just as the article in the OP mentioned, the Palestinians
were glad for the benefits produced for them by Israel at its creation,
and today they still enjoy those very same benefits, magnified
many times, of course, by Israel's amazing technological advancements since that time.
Would you like your anti-Israel arguments to be continually blasted out of the water,
or would you like to now admit that Israel does an astoundingly great many
wonderful things for others, in addition to its simple wish to be allowed to continue to exist? |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1966
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Instead of discussing what this thread intended, you have Sand spamming it with overly long articles (CLIFF NOTES!! ANNOTATIONS!! Heard of them?). and anti-semitism.
These are Ultra-orthodox Jews. How easy you are at condemning far-right Evangelicals, but accepting of another far-right belief.
| Quote: |
Criticizing Israel is not anti-Semitic, and saying so is vile. But singling out Israel for opprobrium and international sanction -- out of all proportion to any other party in the Middle East -- is anti-Semitic, and not saying so is dishonest. |
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The above view subject to change. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4478
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: |
These are Ultra-orthodox Jews. How easy you are at condemning far-right Evangelicals, but accepting of another far-right belief. |
you missed the point completely (as usual). the point is that in the religious context, the creation of israel is wrong. it's purely a political thing with the zionists and zionism is not the same thing as judaism though the two are linked (just like not every muslim engages in jihad but the two are linked).
i'm (not) sorry i'm capable of a higher level of thinking than you are but the two are not the same thing. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1966
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: |
you missed the point completely (as usual). the point is that in the religious context, the creation of israel is wrong. it's purely a political thing with the zionists and zionism is not the same thing as judaism though the two are linked (just like not every muslim engages in jihad but the two are linked).
i'm (not) sorry i'm capable of a higher level of thinking than you are but the two are not the same thing. |
Youre not capable of higher thinking which is why you revert to insults.
Israel the state has nothing to do with the Bible (the fact that people see a connection is separate). It was purely political based on historical ties towards the jewish people who never gave up on their dream of a Jewish state.
The fact that an Ultra orthodox organization believes they were meant to roam the land like Gypsies until He gives them one, and you supportive of this view, is "delusional." It's funny that you can be hypocritical and not acknowledge it
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The above view subject to change. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4478
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: |
you missed the point completely (as usual). the point is that in the religious context, the creation of israel is wrong. it's purely a political thing with the zionists and zionism is not the same thing as judaism though the two are linked (just like not every muslim engages in jihad but the two are linked).
i'm (not) sorry i'm capable of a higher level of thinking than you are but the two are not the same thing. |
Youre not capable of higher thinking which is why you revert to insults.
Israel the state has nothing to do with the Bible (the fact that people see a connection is separate). It was purely political based on historical ties towards the jewish people who never gave up on their dream of a Jewish state.
The fact that an Ultra orthodox organization believes they were meant to roam the land like Gypsies until He gives them one, and you supportive of this view, is "delusional." It's funny that you can be hypocritical and not acknowledge it |
still missing the point, jackass. and i revert to insults because you're that worthless. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1966
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: |
still missing the point, jackass. and i revert to insults because you're that worthless. |
What point? The point that youre not going to give up an antisemitic belief?
_________________
The above view subject to change. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4478
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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copy and paste job because i mostly agree with him other than the socialist stuff.
Chomsky and the Middle East
Chomsky "grew up... in the Jewish-Zionist cultural tradition" (Peck, p. 11). His father was one of the foremost scholars of the Hebrew language and taught at a religious school. Chomsky has also had a long fascination with and involvement in Zionist politics. As he described:
"I was deeply interested in... Zionist affairs and activities — or what was then called 'Zionist,' though the same ideas and concerns are now called 'anti-Zionist.' I was interested in socialist, binationalist options for Palestine, and in the kibbutzim and the whole cooperative labor system that had developed in the Jewish settlement there (the Yishuv)...The vague ideas I had at the time [1947] were to go to Palestine, perhaps to a kibbutz, to try to become involved in efforts at Arab-Jewish cooperation within a socialist framework, opposed to the deeply antidemocratic concept of a Jewish state (a position that was considered well within the mainstream of Zionism)." (Peck, p. 7)
He is highly critical of the policies of Israel towards the Palestinians and its Arab neighbors. His book The Fateful Triangle is considered one of the premier texts on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict among those who oppose Israel's policies in regard to the Palestinians as well as American support for the state of Israel. He has also accused Israel of "guiding state terrorism" for selling weapons to apartheid South Africa and Latin American countries that he characterizes as U.S. puppet states, e.g. Guatemala in the 1980s, as well as U.S.-backed paramilitaries (or, according to Chomsky, terrorists) such as the Nicaraguan Contras. (What Uncle Sam Really Wants, Chapter 2.4) Chomsky characterizes Israel as a "mercenary state," "an Israeli Sparta," and a militarized dependency within a U.S. system of hegemony. He has also fiercely criticized sectors of the American Jewish community for their role in obtaining U.S. support, stating that "they should more properly be called 'supporters of the moral degeneration and ultimate destruction of Israel'" (Fateful Triangle, p.4). He says of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL):
"The leading official monitor of anti-Semitism, the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith, interprets anti-Semitism as unwillingness to conform to its requirements with regard to support for Israeli authorities.... The logic is straightforward: Anti-Semitism is opposition to the interests of Israel (as the ADL sees them).... The ADL has virtually abandoned its earlier role as a civil rights organization, becoming 'one of the main pillars' of Israeli propaganda in the U.S., as the Israeli press casually describes it, engaged in surveillance, blacklisting, compilation of FBI-style files circulated to adherents for the purpose of defamation, angry public responses to criticism of Israeli actions, and so on. These efforts, buttressed by insinuations of anti-Semitism or direct accusations, are intended to deflect or undermine opposition to Israeli policies, including Israel's refusal, with U.S. support, to move towards a general political settlement."[23]
See also Middle East Politics, a speech given at Columbia University in 1999
In a 2004 interview with Jennifer Bleyer published The Ugly Planet, issue two[24] [25] [26] and in Heeb magazine,[27] Chomsky stated:
"It ends up that about 90% of the land [in Israel] is reserved for people of Jewish race, religion and origin. If 90% of the land in the United States were reserved for people of white, Christian race, religion and origin, I’d be opposed. So would the ADL. We should accept universal values." |
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Sand
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1529
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| You call it spam. I call it shoving the facts in front of your nose so you can't miss them. There is massive evidence of the twisted Zionist aggression and its historical intent in the matter. Hopefully dumping this evidence in clear view will make you look at what is actually going on instead of ignoring a link. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4478
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Sand wrote: | | You call it spam. I call it shoving the facts in front of your nose so you can't miss them. There is massive evidence of the twisted Zionist aggression and its historical intent in the matter. Hopefully dumping this evidence in clear view will make you look at what is actually going on instead of ignoring a link. |
you really think they like to read? i suspect they're not the reading kind of crowd (not to mention the talk of asking for cliff notes). |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1966
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: |
you really think they like to read? i suspect they're not the reading kind of crowd (not to mention the talk of asking for cliff notes). |
Kind of like you not clicking on the first link?
It was spamming the thread. A readable post would be around 2-3 paragraphs, not back to back posts with a screenfull of words. In that case just post the link and/or make a point.
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4478
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: |
you really think they like to read? i suspect they're not the reading kind of crowd (not to mention the talk of asking for cliff notes). |
Kind of like you not clicking on the first link?
It was spamming the thread. A readable post would be around 2-3 paragraphs, not back to back posts with a screenfull of words. In that case just post the link and/or make a point. |
so what you want is a link you can ignore rather than text you have to scroll past? |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1966
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: |
so what you want is a link you can ignore rather than text you have to scroll past? |
Think: If a person is going to dismiss a link, he'll also dismiss a post. At least the link will not take up a page.
_________________
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Sand
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1529
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: |
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To get down to the heart of the matter spam is specifically material submitted primarily to annoy rather than to convey real information. The Israeli situation is a complicated affair dealing with many current and historical attitudes and demands a thorough knowledge of the culture of the participants and how they reacted with each other in historical context. No doubt the articles were long and highly detailed but in no way could it be said that they were presented merely to annoy or stifle discussion. They contained multitudes of relevant facts clearly indicating the roots of the conflict and how it developed and why is is such an entangled problem today. Understanding requires extensive background and simple denial of the history does not make any sensible approach to understanding. No doubt there has been reprehensible behavior on both sides of the conflict but without the proper background it is hopeless and and without sense to merely fling accusations. The situation today is locked in a conflict which has been intensified by motivations exterior to the conflict itself dealing with religious and national interests exterior to the specific area.
If people are unwilling to thoroughly acquaint themselves with the important aspects of the problem emotional responses divorced from the facts make little sense and merely become a noisy prejudicial dogfight. |
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