 
Support Wrong Planet Awareness!
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4291
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
 Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: 1948, Israel and the Palestinians-The True Story |
 |
|
| sartresue wrote: | Birth of a nation topic
The Jewish people even have to wander in their own state. There is no rest from the hamascide bombers, Gaza-located rockets and the Anti-Jewish/Israeli press, striking from both without and within.
I have been studying this issue for years, and while no side is completely innocent, I will cast my lot with the Israelis. I would rather be living in a democracy where citizens have equal rights than some Arab/Islamic nation where I have fewer rights than a pile of garbage.
I read all the articles provided by the various posters and the information cemented my position. It is interesting that Israel can be so freely condemned by non-Jews but if I wrote such a piece directed at Syria, or hamas controlled Gaza I would have a Fatwa directed against me. My words would be twisted as an affront against Allah, or some other such prophet/holy book that I have no interest in.
So call me an f****** idiot, scum, foolish, ignorant, stupid. I am glad I still have the right to say what I think, as do all the posters here.  |
so then give me a legit reason for the creation and maintaining the state of israel.
and you're right, the palestinians have little to no rights: the israeli government makes sure of that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: 1948, Israel and the Palestinians-The True Story |
|
|
| skafather84 wrote: |
and you're right, the palestinians have little to no rights: the israeli government makes sure of that. |
That's not what he said. Palestinians are treated far, far worse in every Arab country than they are in Israel.
Palestinians freely vote in Israel's elections, they are members of the Knesset, several are millionaire business
owners living in mansions in Jerusalem, and they have completely equal legal rights in every way as Israelis.
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: 1948, Israel and the Palestinians-The True Story |
|
|
| skafather84 wrote: | so then give me a legit reason for the creation and maintaining the state of israel.
|
To prevent this from happening again.
You asked for one reason.
There are over 6 million.
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org. |
|
| Back to top |
|
oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1907
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The legal and credible reason to allow Jews to have a land is:
a) a people need a land. Palestinians too need a land but they have constantly rebuffed. How many peace treaties, cease-fires, and accords have been reached? You'd expect something by now.
b) a sense of unity amongst the Jews. Where else would the Jews go to be one? Do you think Russia will open up some of their great lands to house Jews in their millions? Arab Jews, North African Jews, Ethiopian Jews, Ashkenazim, Iranian Jews, South Asian Jews, Central Asian Jews, Balkan Jews. Does anyone in their right minds believe any country will accept them? To practice as they see fit?
c) a sense of historical ties. The Jews feel a sense of closeness to the Land of Israel. How many Arabs allowed them pilgrimage to the Holy Lands? Jordan didn't even allow them entrance. No one accepts the Jews. No one will accept the Jews. Now that they have a state, they can afford to not care about what the rest of the world thinks. They have that which they have always wanted. It should not be held against them that many are trying to destroy the offers they have given, the hope that they have.
None can say Israel is innocent, but to say they are guilty of everything that has happened and wanting to "dismantle Israel" is antisemitic. After all, such an option would put them back in the state of roaming the earth again. How sympathetic and compassionate you people are. After having the Palestinians become refugees, you now want the Israelis to become one too.
| psych wrote: | I think this discussion would benefit from clearly definiting the word 'semite'
my understanding is that it (more or less) means arab. The majority of peoples alive today who follow the jewish faith are of european (ashkenazi) descent, so it doesnt really make sense to use the term anti-semitic to label those who show predujice against them. It also makes little sense to talk about most palestianians as being anti-semitic, as they are semitic. |
Because they're European does not mean they don't have semitic blood. Consider the fact that Judaism is exclusive and does not readily allow or accept converts, I find the dismissal of them being Semitic pretty far from the truth.
_________________
The above view subject to change. |
|
| Back to top |
|
oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1907
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: 1948, Israel and the Palestinians-The True Story |
|
|
| Ragtime wrote: |
That's not what he said. Palestinians are treated far, far worse in every Arab country than they are in Israel.
Palestinians freely vote in Israel's elections, they are members of the Knesset, several are millionaire business
owners living in mansions in Jerusalem, and they have completely equal legal rights in every way as Israelis. |
Lebanon.
Nasrullah of Hizbullah does not care about the Palestinians, yet he is all too willing to exploit their cause.
_________________
The above view subject to change. |
|
| Back to top |
|
skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4291
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: 1948, Israel and the Palestinians-The True Story |
|
|
| Ragtime wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | so then give me a legit reason for the creation and maintaining the state of israel.
|
To prevent this from happening again.
You asked for one reason.
There are over 6 million. |
how does creating enmity with an entire region by taking their land and taking their holy lands from them...well..how does all that prevent a genocide? it seems if anything, it's a direct attack that puts the focus on the religion and race of the people involved.
if you want them safe, have all the israelis come here...we love jews here. at least, i do. mel gibson doesn't...but he also made garbage like the passion of the christ so eff him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
iamnotaparakeet
Eddie's Carr
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 22
Posts: 9790
Location: 44.7N 93.6W
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Would you rather have your own house or be an unwelcomed guest in someone else's subject to their laws and rules. Canaan was given to them; it was theirs and it is theirs again.
_________________
Ego non psittacus sum, sed amici mei psittaci sunt.
Deum meum culpabant ob toto malo, sed Deum meum laudabo ob toto bono. |
|
| Back to top |
|
oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1907
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1948, Israel and the Palestinians-The True Story |
|
|
| skafather84 wrote: |
how does creating enmity with an entire region by taking their land and taking their holy lands from them...well..how does all that prevent a genocide? it seems if anything, it's a direct attack that puts the focus on the religion and race of the people involved.
if you want them safe, have all the israelis come here...we love jews here. at least, i do. mel gibson doesn't...but he also made garbage like the passion of the christ so eff him. |
Are you implying that it isn't Jewish holy land? When Umar entered Jerusalem, he recognized that the Jews (and Christians) too had claim to the Holy Land and called the Temple of Solomon Solomon's Masjid. it is not a direct attack against the religion, if it was the Jews would have destroyed al-masjid al-aqsa.
You are naive to believe 7 million jews will be allowed to live in America as one big happy family, with happy smiles from all citizens. If you loved the Jews, you'd understand why a homeland for them is necessary.
_________________
The above view subject to change. |
|
| Back to top |
|
skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4291
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: 1948, Israel and the Palestinians-The True Story |
|
|
| oscuria wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: |
how does creating enmity with an entire region by taking their land and taking their holy lands from them...well..how does all that prevent a genocide? it seems if anything, it's a direct attack that puts the focus on the religion and race of the people involved.
if you want them safe, have all the israelis come here...we love jews here. at least, i do. mel gibson doesn't...but he also made garbage like the passion of the christ so eff him. |
Are you implying that it isn't Jewish holy land? When Umar entered Jerusalem, he recognized that the Jews (and Christians) too had claim to the Holy Land and called the Temple of Solomon Solomon's Masjid. it is not a direct attack against the religion, if it was the Jews would have destroyed al-masjid al-aqsa.
You are naive to believe 7 million jews will be allowed to live in America as one big happy family, with happy smiles from all citizens. If you loved the Jews, you'd understand why a homeland for them is necessary. |
i'm recognizing the last 500 years of existence because they matter more than the bible within a historical context.
i fully recognize that judaism has their holy lands based in the same area. it still doesn't change that the ownership of the area for the past few hundred years had been muslim and had been, in some form, palestine. and the jews that lived there pre-zionism lived there peacefully co-existing with palestinian muslims.
you act like as if the jews are hated around the world...do you have a problem with the jews? you keep on insisting they can't exist peacefully anywhere but in their own land...why are you so intent on segregating the jewish population away from the rest of the world? |
|
| Back to top |
|
oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1907
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: 1948, Israel and the Palestinians-The True Story |
|
|
| skafather84 wrote: |
i'm recognizing the last 500 years of existence because they matter more than the bible within a historical context.
i fully recognize that judaism has their holy lands based in the same area. it still doesn't change that the ownership of the area for the past few hundred years had been muslim and had been, in some form, palestine. and the jews that lived there pre-zionism lived there peacefully co-existing with palestinian muslims.
you act like as if the jews are hated around the world...do you have a problem with the jews? you keep on insisting they can't exist peacefully anywhere but in their own land...why are you so intent on segregating the jewish population away from the rest of the world? |
What is your definition of Peaceful? I don't look at that region as peaceful. Consider the fact that Jews used to live in the Hijaz, where are they now? Certainly if it was peaceful they would have still been there.
Why? Because they belong together so they can worship together. A family is not meant to be separated like lost friends. It is a family, and as a family deserve to be united. Their home is Israel. Entre las Guertas as the Sefardim say.
_________________
The above view subject to change. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | Would you rather have your own house or be an unwelcomed guest in someone else's subject to their laws and rules. Canaan was given to them; it was theirs and it is theirs again. |
Amen.
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: Re: 1948, Israel and the Palestinians-The True Story |
|
|
| oscuria wrote: | | If you loved the Jews, you'd understand why a homeland for them is necessary. |
QFT!
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here's an interesting article to re-brighten this thread:
"Why Israel is the World's Happiest Country"
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here's another uplifting piece I just now happened across, by Alan Dershowitz:
"Israel at 60"
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ed
Forum Moderator
Joined: Dec 20, 2004
Age: 64
Posts: 883
Location: central Massachusetts
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| This entire mess was caused by the UN members who voted to take land from the Palestinians and give it to the Jews. All the Arab nations opposed the resolution, but the outside world forced it on them. We created the problem. There is no solution. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
  |
Wrong Planet Forums Forum Index
-> Politics, Philosophy, and Religion |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next
|
| Page 6 of 9 |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
