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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7396
Location: Dallas, Texas
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 Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ed wrote: | | This entire mess was caused by the UN members who voted to take land from the Palestinians and give it to the Jews. All the Arab nations opposed the resolution, but the outside world forced it on them. We created the problem. There is no solution. |
So, in other words, it was voted on, and it went through.
I'm trying to find your lament in that simple procedure normality, but sorry, Israel needed refuge, as proved by
HALF OF THEM BEING MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD IN THE HOLOCAUST!!!!!!
Yes, it is such a "mess" that Israel got a place of refuge a decade after the Holocaust.
Such thinking could easily conclude that it was also a "mess" that the Hitler and his Holocaust were stopped!
That's just pure evil, and you're making me physically ill, sir.
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 4713
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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how can something that occured good 15+/- years before the holocaust be attributed to the holocaust?
israel being formed into a state was decided and announced in 1917 with the balfour declaration of 1917. the earliest nazi concentration camps weren't around until around the time of the reichstag fire in 1933.
quit messing up history to fit into your narrow world view. |
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ed
Forum Moderator
Joined: Dec 20, 2004
Age: 64
Posts: 937
Location: central Massachusetts
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: | So, in other words, it was voted on, and it went through.
I'm trying to find your lament in that simple procedure normality, but sorry, Israel needed refuge, as proved by
HALF OF THEM BEING MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD IN THE HOLOCAUST!!!!!! |
No, Israel didn't need refuge, a lot of European Jewish refugees needed refuge. None of our American/European holier-than-thou countries were willing to accept them into their countries, so they voted (against the wishes of all of the countries in the area) to put them into the Biblical Holy Lands; that was what they wanted, and it certainly solved that problem. Unfortunately, that land was already taken. No country or international organization has the moral authority to take away their land. By disregarding this simple fact, they created a horrible problem.
| Ragtime wrote: | | That's just pure evil, and you're making me physically ill, sir. |
Whadya want from me, I was only 3 at the time.  If I had been older I would have spoken out against it. Then as now, no one would have listened, though.
The warring factions are going to have to fix this mess themselves. I fear there is going to be a lot more killing before they do. There is nothing I can do to stop it. No nation or world organization can impose any solution, either.
If that makes me purely evil, then so be it. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 4713
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ed wrote: | | No, Israel didn't need refuge, a lot of European Jewish refugees needed refuge. None of our American/European holier-than-thou countries were willing to accept them into their countries, so they voted (against the wishes of all of the countries in the area) to put them into the Biblical Holy Lands; that was what they wanted, and it certainly solved that problem. Unfortunately, that land was already taken. No country or international organization has the moral authority to take away their land. By disregarding this simple fact, they created a horrible problem. |
that's a moot argument. the land was in control of france and the UK at the time due to the ottoman empire losing world war I. they lost control of the land when they lost the war.
however, that doesn't change that the UK most certainly did not act responsibly with the large responsibility given to them. most likely the racism that caused many of the early zionists to become zionists was also the impetus behind the UK creating the state of israel. sadly, the early zionists weren't in line with theodor hertzl...they just wanted to not be hated, not reclaim the holy land. the people in power who orchestrated the even were jewish supremacists, though and wanted a purely jewish state hence israel and the "right of return" garbage. |
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sartresue
Radical Aspergian
Joined: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 2162
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: 1948, Israel, and the Palestinians |
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A Philistine Declaration topic
And how are the Palestinians going to get back "their" land, Ed? Especially if no country has the moral right to take away Israel's land?
Maybe the Arab nations still hostile to Israel should try something really stupid and foolish. Maybe the UN should vote to give back the Palestinians "their" land. Maybe the British can get it back?
You advocate the continued use of bigotry and war as the only way to "solve" this issue. And when the Palestinians get "their" land back, everything will just be peachy keen. The only bona fide democracy in the Middle East gone.
Israel unfortunately, has become a kind of buffer zone between terrorism and democracy. If it is gone, just who will be the next victims, after another six million or more are wiped out?
Be careful what you wish for, Ed.
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Radical Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind
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ed
Forum Moderator
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Age: 64
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Location: central Massachusetts
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: 1948, Israel, and the Palestinians |
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| sartresue wrote: | A Philistine Declaration topic
And how are the Palestinians going to get back "their" land, Ed? Especially if no country has the moral right to take away Israel's land?
Maybe the Arab nations still hostile to Israel should try something really stupid and foolish. Maybe the UN should vote to give back the Palestinians "their" land. Maybe the British can get it back?
You advocate the continued use of bigotry and war as the only way to "solve" this issue. And when the Palestinians get "their" land back, everything will just be peachy keen. The only bona fide democracy in the Middle East gone.
Israel unfortunately, has become a kind of buffer zone between terrorism and democracy. If it is gone, just who will be the next victims, after another six million or more are wiped out?
Be careful what you wish for, Ed. |
| ed wrote: | | We created the problem. There is no solution. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 4713
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1948, Israel, and the Palestinians |
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| sartresue wrote: | | The only bona fide democracy in the Middle East gone. |
so? is that our problem? is the country now an evangelical democracy forcing others to adhere to our system at gunpoint? |
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iamnotaparakeet
Centurio Caesareae
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 22
Posts: 11616
Location: Domus Psittacorum
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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How about we give all of those homeless Arabs homes here in America? 
_________________
Ego non sum parvus psittacus!
Es neesmu mazs papagailis!
Yo no soy un periquito! |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7396
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | how can something that occured good 15+/- years before the holocaust be attributed to the holocaust?
israel being formed into a state was decided and announced in 1917 with the balfour declaration of 1917. the earliest nazi concentration camps weren't around until around the time of the reichstag fire in 1933.
quit messing up history to fit into your narrow world view. |
If you'd like to talk about history, let's talk about the Jews owning and living in Israel and Jerusalem
for more than one thousand years.
Go on an archaeological dig there sometime, why don't you, and you'll find the soil is jam-packed with ancient Jewish artifacts.
(Oh, I forgot, evidence is not your preferred method of learning, excuse me.)
Really, skafool, if you're aguing against a Jewish state on its present land, history is the LAST subject you should bring up!
The Jews have less right to have a nation anywhere else on the globe than where they are right now,
so those who suggest Israel should rightly be relocated need to wake up -- it is EXACTLY WHERE IT SHOULD BE,
and all the propaganda and explosives and missles in the world will not change that fact.
God predicted that He would restore Israel from among the nations,
and He said that He will not permit Israel to be relocated.
Ezekiel 37:20-28:
Hold before their eyes the sticks you have written on and say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God. " 'My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.' "
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org.
Last edited by Ragtime on Thu May 22, 2008 3:42 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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iamnotaparakeet
Centurio Caesareae
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 22
Posts: 11616
Location: Domus Psittacorum
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
Ego non sum parvus psittacus!
Es neesmu mazs papagailis!
Yo no soy un periquito! |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 4713
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | how can something that occured good 15+/- years before the holocaust be attributed to the holocaust?
israel being formed into a state was decided and announced in 1917 with the balfour declaration of 1917. the earliest nazi concentration camps weren't around until around the time of the reichstag fire in 1933.
quit messing up history to fit into your narrow world view. |
If you'd like to talk about history, let's talk about the Jews owning and living in Israel and Jerusalem
for more than one thousand years.
Go on an archaeological dig there sometime, why don't you, and you'll find the soil is jam-packed with ancient Jewish artifacts.
(Oh, I forgot, evidence is not your preferred method of learning, excuse me.)
Really, skafool, if you're aguing against a Jewish state on its present land, history is the LAST subject you should bring up!
The Jews have less right to have a nation anywhere else on the globe than where they are right now,
so those who suggest Israel should rightly be relocated need to wake up -- they are EXACTLY WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. |
i disprove you on the holocaust thing so you redirect to that they had the land a few thousand years ago while you ignore the past few hundred years where they didn't have the land.
does that mean you're also in favor of all of us being removed to give the indians their right of return back? |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7396
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1948, Israel, and the Palestinians |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | sartresue wrote: | | The only bona fide democracy in the Middle East gone. |
so? is that our problem? |
You're right, skafool: Apathy is the solution.
Strange, then, that you are the polar opposite of apathetic throughout this entire thread.
But I guess it's all about timing, huh?
I say Israel has the right to exist, you go ballistic.
Then a true, world-effecting tragedy is predicted, and suddenly you couldn't care less.
Which is it? Are you hot-headed or cold-blooded, because we can't tell.
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org. |
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iamnotaparakeet
Centurio Caesareae
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 22
Posts: 11616
Location: Domus Psittacorum
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | how can something that occured good 15+/- years before the holocaust be attributed to the holocaust?
israel being formed into a state was decided and announced in 1917 with the balfour declaration of 1917. the earliest nazi concentration camps weren't around until around the time of the reichstag fire in 1933.
quit messing up history to fit into your narrow world view. |
If you'd like to talk about history, let's talk about the Jews owning and living in Israel and Jerusalem
for more than one thousand years.
Go on an archaeological dig there sometime, why don't you, and you'll find the soil is jam-packed with ancient Jewish artifacts.
(Oh, I forgot, evidence is not your preferred method of learning, excuse me.)
Really, skafool, if you're aguing against a Jewish state on its present land, history is the LAST subject you should bring up!
The Jews have less right to have a nation anywhere else on the globe than where they are right now,
so those who suggest Israel should rightly be relocated need to wake up -- they are EXACTLY WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. |
i disprove you on the holocaust thing so you redirect to that they had the land a few thousand years ago while you ignore the past few hundred years where they didn't have the land.
does that mean you're also in favor of all of us being removed to give the indians their right of return back? |
The exodus from Europe doesn't relate to the Holocaust?
_________________
Ego non sum parvus psittacus!
Es neesmu mazs papagailis!
Yo no soy un periquito! |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7396
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | how can something that occured good 15+/- years before the holocaust be attributed to the holocaust?
israel being formed into a state was decided and announced in 1917 with the balfour declaration of 1917. the earliest nazi concentration camps weren't around until around the time of the reichstag fire in 1933.
quit messing up history to fit into your narrow world view. |
If you'd like to talk about history, let's talk about the Jews owning and living in Israel and Jerusalem
for more than one thousand years.
Go on an archaeological dig there sometime, why don't you, and you'll find the soil is jam-packed with ancient Jewish artifacts.
(Oh, I forgot, evidence is not your preferred method of learning, excuse me.)
Really, skafool, if you're aguing against a Jewish state on its present land, history is the LAST subject you should bring up!
The Jews have less right to have a nation anywhere else on the globe than where they are right now,
so those who suggest Israel should rightly be relocated need to wake up -- they are EXACTLY WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. |
i disprove you on the holocaust thing so you redirect to that they had the land a few thousand years ago while you ignore the past few hundred years where they didn't have the land.
|
Uh... pot, kettle? You completely ignored the entire 5,000-word scholarly article that this thread was based upon --
an article which articulated the facts far better than either you or I could,
and you dismissed the whole thing -- in its entirety, you said -- on the grounds that it talks
about the last sixty-one years to the present day.  The 37 historical quotes given in the article were all made up,
you imply. You fool.
Then, you say that only 1917 matters -- nothing before, and nothing afterward. (Not 1947-1948, and not ~1,000 B.C.)
You selective-sighted idiot.
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org.
Last edited by Ragtime on Thu May 22, 2008 4:07 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7396
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | How about we give all of those homeless Arabs homes here in America? |
Ya! Terrific idea! I'll contact some Palestinians for you, skafather, and let them know you'll be expecting them.
I mean, you clearly love them and their cause, after fighting so hard for them in this thread.
And the Israelis are beating them up and shooting them dead everyday, right? Even targetting children, right?
So, how can you SIT THERE, and wait for more Palestinians to DIE!?!
Surely, it would be nothing short of your wildest dream to shack up with some screaming, smelly Palestinian gunmen!
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org.
Last edited by Ragtime on Thu May 22, 2008 4:08 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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