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beau99
B.S. Detector
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Joined: Nov 06, 2007
Age: 22
Posts: 1308
Location: A cruel H*llhole called Earth.
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 Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Yupa wrote: | | srriv345 wrote: | | It's hardly a haven of order. |
Mine was. |
I can assure you - that your's most definitely WAS NOT the norm.
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My site: Thoughts of an Autistic (updated May 20, 2008)
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preludeman
Velociraptor
Joined: May 22, 2007
Age: 38
Posts: 476
Location: In my inner sanctum of solitude.
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: My Two Cents. |
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This was on CNN. I still hope the teacher is fired.
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Do what you can when you can. I'm also the "alien"they are looking for. |
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Psycho_jimmy
Raven
Joined: Jan 05, 2008
Posts: 104
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| Deja vu... that happened to me. |
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aspiegirl2
Aurtistic Rainwoman
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Age: 19
Posts: 1207
Location: Washington, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:47 am Post subject: |
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I don't understand how a teacher could be allowed to work for a school, with kids as young as 5, if she teaches like that. I know that humans are naturally social creatures and typically want to be accepted into society and be loved by others. By throwing the kid out of the only outside part of society that he knows (besides his family), it will probably traumatize him for a very long time. I think that part of the learning in kindergarten is to bring you out into the world and try to make friends or socialize with other people. I think it's part of the basic learning that goes on during that time of development as a child, and is just as important as learning basic academic skills, as it is a skill that all people will need to survive in this world. This kid, if not counseled by someone, will probably think that everyone in his classes will hate him in his future school years. That is not a healthy way for a child to view school. I think that situations like this actually causes behavior problems rather than prevents it. From being a Psychology major in college, I could see that stuff like this that happens to people this young does not go away very fast. He'll probably have to undergo therapy or counseling, and I agree that the school should pay for this.
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I am a 19 year old girl who lives in Washington State and was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome at 9 years old. I like to run, play trombone, and draw. I am also a Christian and I also love to pray to God and read His word. |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 47
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Some people at my kindergarten said I was a bad girl and then the same carried on to when I was in primary school and even now I still think I am bad sometimes. People often don't realise just how hurtful it is for kids to be singled out and ganged up against. If the teacher had a problem with the little boy's behaviour, she should have spoken to his parents and tried to work something out. It wasn't for her to get the other kids involved. It also gives them a very bad life lesson: that bullying and ostracising somebody who is different is a good thing to do.
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Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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WonderWoman
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 02, 2008
Age: 56
Posts: 356
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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The teacher should never teach children again. The school board should pay for everything this kid needs to recover and make a public apology to the boy and his family and to the students who were taught to participate in this abuse. The school board should also pay to have the children in the school counseled to understand that they were made to participate in abuse and be given the chance to apologize. The children should be taught about neurodiversity. I hope the teacher is sued successfully by the family for everything she has.
I'll try to calm down and compose a reasonable email to send the school. Isn't this teacher even suspended pending the outcome of the investigation? Hard to believe.
_________________
"Me voici donc seul sur la terre, n'ayant plus de frère de prochain d'ami de société que moi-même." Jean-Jacques Rousseau
"Do not think, 'I am alone.'" Sasaki Roshi
WonderWoman
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BokeKaeru
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Age: 21
Posts: 517
Location: Alternately Los Angeles, CA and Northampton, MA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:15 am Post subject: |
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For someone who's wired differently, or just doesn't know any way else to be, all an exercise like this will do is reinforce their isolation from everyone, the seeming incomprehensibility of the way things work that everyone else seems to understand but never made sense to them. This way of handling things fails in that it brings up problems, but no solutions other than complete separation from the rest of one's peer group if one is too different. There is no attempt at understanding or trying to explain their side of things in a non-insulting, non-abusive way - just sudden rejection and mistreatment based on what must seem like arbitrary grounds, and no attempts by anyone to bridge the gap between two very different ways of perceiving and reacting to the world. If you are a person who is inherently not like 90% of the world, and has no way of knowing the exact thought processes and ways of being that go into being like that majority, and suddenly you're told that because you aren't, you're not okay with that majority, what are you going to do? Say what you like about suddenly miraculously learning all the things that you're supposed to do and not do because of this wonderful, revolutionary teaching method. Really, it's likely to have the opposite effect, inspiring confusion and therefore a feeling of powerless and therefore anger which will be acted upon in more inappropriate ways, or on the other hand, complete withdrawal and a lack of development of those precious social skills that prevent us from heinous acts such as spinning in circles or wearing unusually patterned or colored clothing (oh, the huge-manatee!  ). This was a lazy solution on the part of everyone (willingly) involved, primarily the teacher, that allowed for no communication or understanding between the two parties, but instead allowed people to simply reject and force out of view that which was uncomfortable by right of its unfamiliarity.
Furthermore, there was absolutely no reason to FORCE this kid's one and only friend to say bad things about him and then pressure him to vote him out of class. That's not even democratic, if that's the argument one wants to use in favor of this exercise in tyranny of the majority. If Spencer, the boy in question, had no problem with Alex, and in fact liked him, he should have been able to say so and act on this conviction, rather than be coerced into the role of Brutus. It's completely unjustifiable, and will most likely have psychological and social ramifications for Spencer (who as far as we can tell did nothing "disturbing" or "inappropriate" besides choose the wrong friend) in addition to the obvious ones it will have for Alex. This is the second most disturbing thing about the whole situation, right after the glaringly obvious fact that a grown woman found it necessary to pick on a maladjusted five year old.
There are so many other ways that "discipline" could be meted out if necessary, but more effectively. All of them would not just involve criticism, but suggestions or reasons as well, and allow for compromises that would make everyone happy, or at least content. If the teacher is unable to think of them or execute them, she's either not being too creative, looking for an easy way out or just outright sadistic. Having a kid with Asperger's or any other disability/difference could have been a valuable lesson in tolerance and dealing with the unknown, as they will almost certainly have to later in life. In doing what she did, the teacher squandered this opportunity, instead teaching the class skills that will not serve them in the least in the real world. Don't think so? Try calling people "disgusting" or "annoying" for having strange tendencies or mannerisms and expecting them to politely leave while normal people are about, and see how it sits with them.  |
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roguetech
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 350
Location: Climax
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Yupa wrote: | | roguetech wrote: | | Yupa wrote: | | The teacher was punished for doing the right thing, and when people are punished for doing what they should be doing, that really pisses me off. |
I think the right thing to do would have been to ask the child to go to the nurses' station (if he was being particularly disruptive that day), and speak to the parent about placing the child in a setting that could deal with whatever special needs he requires. If the socially accepted "right thing" is to ridicule and taunt children to teach them that school is a place to fear, then I don't see how Autistic behavior could be considered social unnacceptable, unless of course he was considerate to his classmates. | Quote: | | In real life peoples' behaviour is evaluated when they get out of line and if their presence is determined to be detrimental to the workplace environment in any way they are fired. |
Being fired would be equivalant to expelling him from the school, NOT ridiculing him and making his expulsion a public specticle. More to the point, you need to read up on the American's With Disabilities Act (for the US, other countries have similiar). "In real life" people not only may not be "fired", but are also protected against being singled out for discrimination (i.e. ridicule) for a disability. If I were treated this way at my place of employement, I would sue the socks off them. (see http://www.sunpublications.com/articles/2008/04/03/overland_park_sun/news/doc47f3dfc5168a5902822605.txt) |
Once again, he was not being ridiculed "for a disability", since it was not yet proven that he had Asperger's Syndrome.
Oh, and here are some other examples of someone "being singled out for discrimination": refusing to hire a person who is proven to be mentally retarded because you know that their disability will prevent them from contributing to the organization they are applying for, and refusing to let a cripple join a football team.
However I'd say that in this boy's case his disability should not play into the matter. If the teacher wanted him out of the class because he was playing with his pencil or because he stuttered or was twitchy, that would be different. However, he had a history of disruptive behaviour.
Another thing that should be pointed out (I know this from my experience in elementary school) is that children often want to be sent out of class, and the more manipulative students (I was one of them) will often behave as badly as possible just so that they have an excuse to leave the classroom.
Therefore sending him out of class would not be just, as it would not properly qualify as a punishment.
In fact, some students might even consider it a reward, which wouldn't exactly make very much sense.
Notice also that the articles on this matter are very unspecific about the events leading up to this, but they must have been pretty severe if the teacher had to ask the class to vote the student out.
I brought this issue up with my father, by the way, and he agreed that the teacher handled the situation appropriately, and he's usually the sort of person who'd take the child's side in cases like this. |
Once again, your analogy falls short of reality. For ADA protection, whether he was diagnosed at the time or not is irrelevant. Indeed, I am protected from being required to notify my employer of any medical information, unless it impacts my employment requirements. Even if it does, there are still protections in place. If a company can reasonably provide accomadations for a disability, they are required to. If they can not, then you are entitled to disability status.
Not being hired is also completely different. This would be analogous to the school not accepting the student to begin with (see original comment).
The rest of your comment has no bearing what-so-ever. There has been no comments made, least of all by me, that the teacher should have been forced to keep the student in class (see original comment). Personally, my guess is the student wasn't very disruptive, since the teacher was able to poll her students and hold a vote. Action regarding the student's behavior could have waited until after class, with no "discipline" involved (see original comment). Regardless of whether the student was fidgeting or stabbing pencils in other kids eyes, if the teacher was able to send him to the nurses station, the teacher should have been capable of sending the student to the nurses station without what amounted to a kangeroo trial (see original comment). Unfortunately, there has been a pattern for the last generation of degrading standards for teachers, almost to the point where schools are willing to hire people with comprehension and critical thinking skills as poor as yours. |
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WonderWoman
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 02, 2008
Age: 56
Posts: 356
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Yupa, I think your comments are really sad. First of all, was this a public school. If so, a child has the right to an education there and it should just be changed if he's not working well in the mainstream class. Secondly, to teach kids to vote certain people out is horrific. This is not how you teach someone to behave properly. It only results in loss of self-esteem. Thirdly, if child was fishing to get out of school, it teaches him he can do that. If he wasn't, it traumatizes him. What the teacher should have done, was to have him evaluated and have him put in the proper classroom setting for emotionally disruptive students. If it was a private school, then THE SCHOOL--ADULTS--could deny the student enrollment and recommend he get treatment, in a polite way. To make children the judge of a student's right to be there, is abusive to the boy in question and to the whole class. That is not their role. They are not qualified. This a decision to be made by responsible adults. Furthermore, just to ask kids to make this judgment is a loaded question. Asking kids if he should be voted out implies that he should be. Were they voting on each kid in the class? Didn't sound like it. To ask if this boy should be voted out was influencing the class and an abuse of power on the teacher's part. A classroom is a large percentage of a child's social sphere. To allow and to influence a class to vote someone out of it is like telling the boy that the whole world rejects him. Want to create a criminal, you may just have. God bless his mother for fighting for him. He has a constitutional right to an appropriate education. I hope he gets that and the treatment he needs.
_________________
"Me voici donc seul sur la terre, n'ayant plus de frère de prochain d'ami de société que moi-même." Jean-Jacques Rousseau
"Do not think, 'I am alone.'" Sasaki Roshi
WonderWoman
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roguetech
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 350
Location: Climax
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Jacobison
Snowy Owl
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Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| roflmao I sent them e-mails they won't soon forget |
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meoblast001
Butterfly
Joined: Apr 29, 2008
Posts: 9
Location: http://www.mysticgalaxies.com
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I read that article, and what that teacher did just disgusted me. There is absolutely no need for me to say any more. She just disgusted me. |
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n4mwd
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 08, 2008
Posts: 667
Location: Palm Beach, FL
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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The press did a wonderful job unfairly biasing the public against the teacher. She acted appropriately under the circumstances. The boy who has AS, also has a very severe form of ADHD and the stupid mother is one of those idiots that refuse to medicate her kids for ADHD. Meanwhile, when he was in the classroom, he was extremely disruptive to the other students. He rarely sat in his own chair and constantly shoved, pushed and kicked other students and their chairs and tables during class. The teacher was covering how elections work and when he returned from the principals office. She simply took the opportunity to allow the class to vote. It was also a clever way to let the boy know that his abusive behavior was not appreciated by his classmates.
If ANYBODY is to blame, its the boy's mother, not the teacher. She should have had him properly medicated. If I had a kid in that class, I would applaud the teacher for protecting my kids from such an abusive little boy.
That school is just a few miles from where I live. The teacher is a good teacher and not the monster the press has made her out to be. |
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Spokane_Girl
I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 4235
Location: Benny & Joon town (I wish)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| But what the teacher did was still wrong regardless. She should have just sent him to the office. Also a teacher is supposed to call the child's parents if their child is having problems. The teacher could have called Alex's mother and talk to her about her son's behavior. |
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n4mwd
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 08, 2008
Posts: 667
Location: Palm Beach, FL
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Spokane_Girl wrote: | | But what the teacher did was still wrong regardless. She should have just sent him to the office. Also a teacher is supposed to call the child's parents if their child is having problems. The teacher could have called Alex's mother and talk to her about her son's behavior. |
The teacher did and she did. The boy had actually returned from the office after a morning of intolerable behavior when they did the vote.The mother was well aware of her son's behavior, but chose to do nothing about it.
Its his ADHD and his mother's refusal to medicate that is the problem. If all he had was AS, he wouldn't have been so disruptive. |
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