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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: Arizona
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 Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Fred, while your assumptions and assertions defy my understanding, I do hope you find some peace and resolution in whatever path you take. I don't see myself as defective; I do not wish to be cured. At the worst, I may be aberrant creature, outside the norms... and life can be beautiful here, too.
M.
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He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
Why choose a lesser evil? Vote Cthulhu 2008! |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 47
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Fred2670 wrote: | | why cope when you can be cured? |
Haven't you heard? There is no cure. If you were born autistic, you'll die autistic. Coping and living with it is the BEST anyone can hope for. Get used to it.
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Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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deathchibi
anime freak of nature!!!!
Joined: Oct 17, 2007
Age: 117
Posts: 7203
Location: earth
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: |
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i think of bees
NT the honeybees
The true honey bees (genus Apis) have arguably the most complex social behavior among the bees. The Western (or European) honey bee, Apis mellifera, is the best known bee species and one of the best known of all insects.
ASD the Stingless bees
Stingless bees are very diverse in behavior, but all are highly eusocial. They practice mass provisioning, complex nest architecture, and perennial colonies.
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I shall rule the world with an iron spork!!!!
http://www.imvu.com/catalog/web_landing.php?p=power&userId=10671143
4th sin: sloth. |
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Pandora wrote: | | Fred2670 wrote: | | why cope when you can be cured? |
Haven't you heard? There is no cure. If you were born autistic, you'll die autistic. Coping and living with it is the BEST anyone can hope for. Get used to it. |
While it is quite possible that not everyone
can be cured, I can be. For anyone else who
wants to be cured, the first step is to actually
want to be cured and to dispose of their
defeatist attitude
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techstepgenr8tion
cleveland audio assassin
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 29
Posts: 5737
Location: That's for me to know and for you to find out.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Fred, just refer to what I said at the top of page 2 - I really mean it as someone who at one point (in my early 20's) really believed and meant that same thought. To me overcoming it was life or death of honor and I really felt like I'd either beat it completely or do the next most honorable thing which was self-destruct trying. I gave it 200%, like petal scrapping the cement, and these are the things I found out (just like that romantic idea of self-destructing for the sake of honor, unlike animals we don't just keel over when we're forced to accept a fate that flies in the face of everything we've believed in to that point - we actually are forced to adapt our thought processes).
I'm not telling you not to get off the meds, for me I spent 8 years of hell on antipsychotics and SSRI's, they were decaying my functioning (slowly from age 11 to 19) where I thought I'd be in assisted living once I got out of high school - lucky enough to have friends who informed me of what they were doing to me. Don't know your situation though, if your on them over violence issues I'd be extremely careful about pulling off - for me it was the fact that my parents had let psychs put me on all the worst medications for me and the medications themselves were the problem in that aspect. |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 47
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Fred2670 wrote: | | Pandora wrote: | | Fred2670 wrote: | | why cope when you can be cured? |
Haven't you heard? There is no cure. If you were born autistic, you'll die autistic. Coping and living with it is the BEST anyone can hope for. Get used to it. |
While it is quite possible that not everyone
can be cured, I can be. For anyone else who
wants to be cured, the first step is to actually
want to be cured and to dispose of their
defeatist attitude |
It's genetic so it can't be cured simply by willpower. Have you ever considered that many of us are proud of having autism despite the many challenges we have to face as a result.
_________________
Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8977
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| If autism and hfa had not generated a culture to surround itself, the entire "curebie" controversy would not exist. If there were no such thing as a Deaf culture among deaf people, more hearing-impaired people would eagerly embrace the idea of having their hearing restored. Since any kind of culture is inherently political, many will continue fighting to remain the way they are. |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 47
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | If autism and hfa had not generated a culture to surround itself, the entire "curebie" controversy would not exist. If there were no such thing as a Deaf culture among deaf people, more hearing-impaired people would eagerly embrace the idea of having their hearing restored. Since any kind of culture is inherently political, many will continue fighting to remain the way they are. |
Well, that is our choice and what is wrong with identifying with a particular group? NTs do it all the time and there are support groups for all kinds of disorders and disabilities as well as hobby enthusiasts groups. It's human nature to want to find others similar to ourselves but it seems to me as if you believe that's a bad thing and I don't understand why.
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Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8977
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| On the contrary, I believe autistic culture is a good thing. And it is something that definitely should exist. Please do not misunderstand. |
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Is there an "Amputee" culture?
I would give my right arm to be part of that
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 4457
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Fred2670 wrote: | Is there an "Amputee" culture?
I would give my right arm to be part of that
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No, and your comment is extremely offensive, BTW. Missing limbs offer NO benefits whatsoever. Autism does. They clearly are very different things. One is undoubtedly a disability, the other is better characterized as a difference.
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH |
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DeaconBlues
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide - call me...
Joined: Apr 22, 2007
Posts: 1627
Location: Earth, mostly
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Autism is not "curable" because it is not a malfunction. It is the correct functioning of the autistic brain, which has a nonstandard neurological architecture. There is, so far at least, no way to alter neurological structure. You can't take a pinch off your amygdala, boost the connectivity between the hemispheres of the brain, and change the formation of the cells in your parietal lobes.
Should that one day become possible, then it might make some sense to have a controversy over whether or not we should be "cured". Until that day, however, it merely interferes with our attempts to become accepted for who we are - nonstandard, but still valuable, human beings, with insights that don't seem available to our poor, benighted NT brethren.
There are, as I said before, comorbid disorders which can crop up in combination with autism and AS - but while they are often treatable, treating them doesn't change one's brain. One can adjust one's neurochemistry, which often underlies the comorbidities (there are a number of treatments for depression and anxiety disorder, for instance), and reduce their impact, but the autism remains. Thinking less of yourself because you're autistic doesn't make any more sense than, say, thinking you're of no use because you're deaf, or thinking you're less valuable as a human being because you've got green eyes.
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If it can't be expressed in figures, it is not science; it is opinion. - Robert A. Heinlein |
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Orwell wrote: |
Missing limbs offer NO benefits whatsoever. Autism does. They clearly are very different things. One is undoubtedly a disability, the other is better characterized as a difference. |
O ok thx for the clarification
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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| DeaconBlues wrote: | Autism is not "curable" because it is not a malfunction. It is the correct functioning of the autistic brain, which has a nonstandard neurological architecture. There is, so far at least, no way to alter neurological structure. You can't take a pinch off your amygdala, boost the connectivity between the hemispheres of the brain, and change the formation of the cells in your parietal lobes.
Should that one day become possible, then it might make some sense to have a controversy over whether or not we should be "cured". Until that day, however, it merely interferes with our attempts to become accepted for who we are - nonstandard, but still valuable, human beings, with insights that don't seem available to our poor, benighted NT brethren.
There are, as I said before, comorbid disorders which can crop up in combination with autism and AS - but while they are often treatable, treating them doesn't change one's brain. One can adjust one's neurochemistry, which often underlies the comorbidities (there are a number of treatments for depression and anxiety disorder, for instance), and reduce their impact, but the autism remains. Thinking less of yourself because you're autistic doesn't make any more sense than, say, thinking you're of no use because you're deaf, or thinking you're less valuable as a human being because you've got green eyes. |
Very well said, DB. Thank you. Otherwise, this conversation is proving somewhat pointless given some of the responses that Orwell, Pandora and others have received. We are who we are, and who we choose to be. If this pursuit is his desire, let him explore it and see where it leads him; every man should know his own truth... and regardless the outcome, he will be changed and shaped by the experience. I can understand where the desire he has would come from; I just can't share in it.
M.
_________________
He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
Why choose a lesser evil? Vote Cthulhu 2008! |
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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I agree
| makuranososhi wrote: |
We are who we are |
diagnosed with the condition
| makuranososhi wrote: |
and who we choose to be.
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cured
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