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eamonn
not viable
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Joined: Jul 09, 2005
Posts: 2301
Location: Scotland
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 Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| There's such a thing as collective responsibility though. If your population wants guns then fine but dont act dumb and like there was nothing you could have done as a population when they turn their guns on each other. Like The Clash song goes "DENY, Your such a LIAR!" |
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chamoisee
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 28, 2004
Age: 37
Posts: 1063
Location: Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | i don't think anyone should be allowed to own a gun (except some police officers when dealing with hostage situations). |
This thread isn't about whether anyone should or should not have a gun, it's about whether autistic people should be allowed or denied gun ownership based on our diagnosis. I see no reason why our dx should be the primary factor, if we are otherwqise responsible, competent people.
How would I butcher my goats quickly and humanely without a gun?
What am I supposed to do when I see a pack of dogs, including 2 Rottweilers, attacking the neighbor's horse, cornering it in a barbed wire fence and lunging at its throat? (yes, this actually happened, and my partner at the time shot one of the dogs, which dispersed the pack and saved the life of the horse).
I suppose you will say we should call the police, (which assumes that the police will even care) but would they get here in time?
There are a lot of very practical reasons for owning a gun that have nothing to do with wanting to kill another person. I would like to think that if worse came to worse, I would be able to shoot an intruder who was bent on trying to kill or hurt my family. I honestly don't know if I really could. More likely I would wound them and buy enough time to call the police....  (feels like a wimp).
Fact of the matter is, there are a lot of dumb, stupid, morally imcompetent people who do own guns and aren't actually responsible enough to do so...(but hey, I don't think they should even be allowed to operate a motor vehicle- they haven't enough sense to sober up first). I guess if it coems down to whether or not auties are competent enough to own and use a gun, perhaps the criteria should include whether we have a driver's license and have driven responsibly, and this should then apply to any gun owner, not just autistics. Because really, someone who'll drive drunk will probably use a gun while drunk, too.  |
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WooYayHooplah
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Age: 33
Posts: 1012
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Aspergers isn't a reason not to own a gun. It shouldn't even come into question. The mental state of the individual should. Having aspergers doesn't mean you are incompetent when it comes to gun safety. However, I don't really like guns much and cannot see a reason for anyone to have one in their home. If you go hunting, fair enough, but why not keep the gun in a secure hunting club? Why does it have to be in a private residence?
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The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 30
Posts: 7164
Location: The fine world of insomnia and coffee
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| eyeenteepee wrote: | I would argue that if we don't want to get labeled as a bunch of gun wielding maniacs, then the easiest solution is simply to give up gun ownership, or at the very least, advocacy of gun ownership in these fora. I suspect you would prefer not to do either of those?
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Hey, if it went the other way though and they ended up labeling us as a bunch of 2nd amendment-loving capitalist NRA republicans I could definitely live with that   Booyakashock! |
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hecate
chav slayer
Joined: Jun 22, 2005
Posts: 1011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| chamoisee wrote: |
How would I butcher my goats quickly and humanely without a gun?
What am I supposed to do when I see a pack of dogs, including 2 Rottweilers, attacking the neighbor's horse, cornering it in a barbed wire fence and lunging at its throat? (yes, this actually happened, and my partner at the time shot one of the dogs, which dispersed the pack and saved the life of the horse).
I suppose you will say we should call the police, (which assumes that the police will even care) but would they get here in time?
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no, i wouldn't suggest calling the police- since they are the world's scariest gun-weilding maniacs. and no, they probably wouldn't care, or get there in time, because they are too preoccupied intimidating minority groups. |
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Ladysmokeater
Rogue Historian
Joined: Oct 22, 2005
Posts: 1048
Location: North of Atlanta, South of Boston, East of the Mississippi, and West of the Atlantic
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Just remember; GUN CONTROL means hitting the target....
seriously though, if one freedom is taken way whats next?
if a person is unstable and cant buy a gun they will just steal it if they want it bad enough.
In austraila (where I have family) the gun laws are strict and the average person can not get a gun. But criminals get them every day. ILLEGALLY. They steal them and sell them on the street.
Just remember when you take guns away from the people. only the bad people will ahve guns.
If they DO "blame" asperergers for this kids mental instability, then the media (As usual) doenst understand the syndrome and is looking for a scape goat. At the cost of those of us that would never hurt a fly. Well not on purpose any way.
it is like blaiming a persons gender or race or what ever for a viloent act. that would be as senseless as baliming aspergers syndrome if you ask me.
Negitive publisity is not what we need. |
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anbuend
Oak-Type Autie
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 3320
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Forgot to mention, I also grew up around a responsible autistic gun owner, and given the prevalence of autism in my family and the amount of my family who are farmers and such, I know lots and lots of responsible autistic gun owners.
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"We may seem in the gutter from up there where you are but maybe you don't know we still see the same stars." -Donna Williams |
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ilikedragons
Lady Dragon
Joined: Oct 13, 2004
Posts: 1471
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Couldnt the Los Angeles Times times ask before reading my posts? |
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nirrti_rachelle
Go Tigers!
Joined: Jul 22, 2005
Age: 34
Posts: 1191
Location: The Dirty South
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Why is it that people have always carried weapons since man-kind first developed tools yet today, everytime you turn around, someones always killing somebody else. Yes, I'm fully aware there's always been violence and much of it such as domestic violence, stoning, gladiator fighting and corporal punishment of criminals was once even legal and acceptable. But now, it's as if people are losing their self control and don't care about consequences anymore.
I don't think the issue is about who has guns or the right to own one. It's a matter of who's responsible enough to use one wisely and not as an aid for commiting criminal acts or bullying others. Here in America, a household without a gun was once the exception as most people lived in rural areas and with law enforcement being far away or non-existant, people had to fend for themselves. Yet the murder rate wasn't as ridiculously high as it is now.
Part of the reason we have so many murders is the mind-set of so many people. It used to be shameful to be brought up on charges but now, a felon gets more respect than someone working in a low-paying job making an honest living. In other words, I think the prevelance of crime is from greed, immorality and disrespect for other's lives, not the guns themselves. The guns just happen to be the means as knives or fists would if they were illegal.
And yeah, I'm a "commie pinko" liberal but I bet most people here haven't had to live in Memphis, TN either. Believe me, with the high crime rate here, if you plan to step outside your door, you better have something on you or you may end up with your stuff.....or you, taken.
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"There is difference and there is power. And who holds the power decides the meaning of the difference." --June Jordan |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 30
Posts: 7164
Location: The fine world of insomnia and coffee
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| Ladysmokeater wrote: | Just remember; GUN CONTROL means hitting the target....
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Lol, I like that  |
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RobertN
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 934
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:12 am Post subject: |
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I suppose if the people of the USA want guns, then let them have guns - but they have to deal with the consequences.
Here in the UK, I have been brought up without guns, and have no wish or need for one, and long may it stay that way. The moment we start having guns legally in the UK, we will soon develop a gun culture like in the US, and I don't think people here want that. |
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Sean
Banned
Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 3503
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| RobertN wrote: | I suppose if the people of the USA want guns, then let them have guns - but they have to deal with the consequences.
Here in the UK, I have been brought up without guns, and have no wish or need for one, and long may it stay that way. The moment we start having guns legally in the UK, we will soon develop a gun culture like in the US, and I don't think people here want that. |
From something like the 1700s until the 1920's, you had just as strong of a gn culture as the US. Up until 1903, you didn't need a license to carry a concealed pistol (just like modern day Texas), and before that, your country had the lowest crime rate in it's history. England could do just fine if they had a pro gun culture- they just need to realize it again.  |
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ascan
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 2174
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| RobertN wrote: | | ...have been brought up without guns, and have no wish or need for one, and long may it stay that way. The moment we start having guns legally in the UK, we will soon develop a gun culture like in the US, and I don't think people here want that. |
Oh to be in that leafy upper-middle class suburb of yours, RobertN!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1822757,00.html
http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/25/25176_man_dies_in_double_pub_shootings.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3125000.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3710682.stm
http://www.strathclyde.police.uk/index.asp?locID=430&docID=334
Guns are freely available here in the UK — to criminals. If the government can't do it's job, we should be able to do it for them. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 30
Posts: 7164
Location: The fine world of insomnia and coffee
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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I can't remember who it was who mentioned this, it might have been nirrti_rachelle, but criminals are usually a lot less inclined to try and rob someone when everyone and their mom's packing heat. Yeah, it can be unsafe in other ways, in particular those odd circumstances where an 8 year-old gets their hands on their parents weapon or something, but I'd think it would serve the greater good as long as people could be responsible with their ownership (whether that entailed keeping the bullets in a separate hidden place or whatever).
Here's a question I have for someone who's in Scotland though, eamonn or whoever: I've been hearing stories on the news about Glasgow and it's "booze and blades" culture. To be honest that scares me a lot more and I could see something just like that happening in the U.S. I don't know about most people here but I'd rather be at risk of being shot dead than see the predominant street weapons being knives, stilletos, machettes, katanas, or stuff like that - although both would suck I'd much rather be shot dead than get my throat slit and to be honest I think that knives becomming more dominant in gang and criminal culture would just make things 10x worse. At least now knives aren't as relevant when they can't do much against macks, techs, and glocks. Guns are the great equalizer and just like a scurvy 4' 10" methhead can command a guy twice the size of him from the other end of one you can also have a girl command would-be rapists, BTK-types, etc. or an old woman comming home with groceries fend of some teenage punks who felt like innitiating themselves by putting her in the hospital. So is Glasgow really bad in terms of slash & stab action or are illegal guns still a lot more dominant? |
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duncvis
Stroppy Get
Joined: Sep 11, 2004
Posts: 2286
Location: the dark side of the net
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Scarily, ascan is right about gun culture and availability being a growing problem in the UK, in more typical urban areas than Cambridge. Typical street robbers or gang of chav scumbags are more likely to be carrying a knife or other 'conventional weapon' than a gun, but there are a hell of a lot out there. I hate the idea of guns being more accessible though, as that would put them in the hands of more low level scumbags who aren't 'connected'. Crime rates here are higher than in most other Western countries, but you're less likely to end up dead here than in countries where criminals routinely carry guns. I don't want to be in a position where I need to own a gun to have a decent chance of warding off an assailant. |
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