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Wolfpup
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 1610
Location: Central Illinois, USA
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 Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I can see where they'd get scared off, but that in no way excuses Autism Speaks. I think this is a direct attack on us, and I wish we could respond somehow in some meaningful way. |
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AspieZach
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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If you read the whole thing, instead of being a pessimistic idiot you will read it was taken down due to a copyright violation complaint.
| makuranososhi wrote: | | AspieZach wrote: | | krex wrote: |
You could also be more subtle and make a shirt that says
AUTISM does SPEAK
Just ask me, I'm autistic |
That would defeat the purpose of stating Autism Speaks does not represent me. |
The implication does remain; it is just more subtly stated. There are other variants as well that could be used. Using 'Autism Speaks' in the manner shown originally does attempt to show a direct connection to the organization, which could at some point be seen as a targeted attack - it is not my impression, but the possibility exists. The letter received was from Zazzle, not Autism Speaks; generally speaking, print and production companies will err on the side of a right's holder/complaint as the penalties for infringement are not small or mild.
Autism in Action - Actions Speak Louder Than Words
| Quote: | The following content is not permitted on Zazzle:
· No images of obscenity, pornography or nudity that is not artistic in nature
· No images or depictions of illegal drugs or drug use
· No excessive violence
· No content that is libelous or defamatory
· No content that can reasonably be viewed as harassing, threatening, or otherwise harmful
· No hate speech
· No content that can reasonably be viewed as discriminatory based upon race, ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation, or disability
· Nothing that violates or encourages anyone else to violate any law
Any products that are deemed unacceptable by the rules above, or deemed offensive or in bad taste at the sole judgment of Zazzle.com may be removed from the site with or without notice. |
Under their TOS, they are permitted to remove products at any time - and likely did so to prevent themselves from being targeted by lawyers. Not saying I agree with it, but that I can understand why a company in this day and age would do something as such.
I like the idea; they do not speak for a vast number of us. We just have to come up with something that stands alone, proud and separate from their message. Being negative to another support group, however misguided one may think their practices and approaches, does nothing to bolster support or improve perceptions.
M. |
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n4mwd
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 08, 2008
Posts: 707
Location: Palm Beach, FL
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Just tell zazzle that YOU OWN the copyright on the slogan on the shirt. Offer to snail mail them a signed and notarized statement to that effect. The fact that the other organization's name is there is not relevant. Your slogan is political speech and is protected by the first amendment. That's assuming that you live in the US.
| Quote: |
If you are the owner or producer of this content, or otherwise feel that our actions are incorrect, please let us know at content_review@zazzle.com. If it has been removed you may repost your product, provided it abides by Zazzle’s content policy, and we’ll make sure it is not removed again!
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So there you go. Tell them that you are both the owner and producer of this content.
Problem solved. |
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AspieZach
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| n4mwd wrote: | Just tell zazzle that YOU OWN the copyright on the slogan on the shirt. Offer to snail mail them a signed and notarized statement to that effect. The fact that the other organization's name is there is not relevant. Your slogan is political speech and is protected by the first amendment. That's assuming that you live in the US.
| Quote: |
If you are the owner or producer of this content, or otherwise feel that our actions are incorrect, please let us know at content_review@zazzle.com. If it has been removed you may repost your product, provided it abides by Zazzle’s content policy, and we’ll make sure it is not removed again!
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So there you go. Tell them that you are both the owner and producer of this content.
Problem solved. |
I don't own a federally registered copyright on the slogan... so what you said is not applicable.
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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 4711
Location: Transitional
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| AspieZach wrote: | | If you read the whole thing, instead of being a pessimistic idiot you will read it was taken down due to a copyright violation complaint. |
AspieZach, I was not being pessimistic but instead explaining a business side reaction to the complaint letter which was from Zazzle as a result of an initial notice from Autism Speaks. Zazzle is protecting it's interests by not producing shirts that they are being told are in violation - regardless of the actual status, this is a preventative measure most companies would take. I would greatly appreciate it if you would refrain from insults, and invite you to take a moment to reread what I said. I support what you are doing, and would like to see it succeed in a manner that doesn't cause more problems for you and without damaging the reputation of those involved in a movement supportive of those on the spectrum vs. those who see it as only a condition to be cured. I also contributed an alternative:
Autism in Action - Action Speaks Louder Than Words
...that includes the words 'autism' and 'speaks' without infringing on their intellectual property, while being positive.
Again, I am trying to be supportive and do not appreciate the attack in response, no matter how mild it is. Please, take a moment.
M.
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He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 3538
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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AspieZach
You do own the Copyright. It is created automatically when the work was created. (Bern Convention on World Intellectual Property)
A Registered Copyright takes $10, two copies, in any form, and a one page form, download from USPTO.COM.
I had the same problem with Kinko's, I wanted copies of a book I wrote, and had some eighteen year old tell me I could not reproduce it because it was Copyrighted. It was, to me, but he was not trained in that part.
It had my name, Copyright, and the year on the title page, and all he could say was it is copyrighted, and we cannot reproduce copyrighted material.
If they do, they have a liability for copyright infringment. Training did not cover Copyright owners, as all books are made at The New York City Book Factory?
If you make a statment that you are the owner, they are off the hook.
One $10 filing can cover hundreds of works. Print out all of your designs, two copies, and it is up to the Courts after that. Copyright is a very vauge protection, nothing in a lot, but often powerful for a single character in a book.
Autism Speaks, as a Trademark has a very limited range, it only covers the name of a non profit fund raiser for autism research, and stuffing their own pockets with half the take.
Only where someone's actions and use could be mistaken for being them, does it have any merit.
Autism Speaks, does not speak for me, has a disclaimer built in.
You are in business and should know the rules. USC 37, Federal Law on Intellectual Property.
If Autism Speaks has a Lawyer send a letter to anyone, demanding that you Cease and Desist from using "Autism Speaks" under the "Trademark Law," contact me immediatly.
I am not a lawyer, but I know this game. |
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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 4711
Location: Transitional
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Woo! Great input - my experience with copyright law extends only to fair use doctrine in regards to resale, and protecting works of music; your experience is invaluable here.
M.
_________________
He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
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AspieZach
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| makuranososhi wrote: | | AspieZach wrote: | | If you read the whole thing, instead of being a pessimistic idiot you will read it was taken down due to a copyright violation complaint. |
AspieZach, I was not being pessimistic but instead explaining a business side reaction to the complaint letter which was from Zazzle as a result of an initial notice from Autism Speaks. Zazzle is protecting it's interests by not producing shirts that they are being told are in violation - regardless of the actual status, this is a preventative measure most companies would take. I would greatly appreciate it if you would refrain from insults, and invite you to take a moment to reread what I said. I support what you are doing, and would like to see it succeed in a manner that doesn't cause more problems for you and without damaging the reputation of those involved in a movement supportive of those on the spectrum vs. those who see it as only a condition to be cured. I also contributed an alternative:
Autism in Action - Action Speaks Louder Than Words
...that includes the words 'autism' and 'speaks' without infringing on their intellectual property, while being positive.
Again, I am trying to be supportive and do not appreciate the attack in response, no matter how mild it is. Please, take a moment.
M. |
What I did does not infringe of the rights of Autism Speaks and is covered by the copyright fair use policy. Using what you say completley changes the meaning of what I'm trying to put across and is then just plain dumb.
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AspieZach
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Inventor wrote: | AspieZach
You do own the Copyright. It is created automatically when the work was created. (Bern Convention on World Intellectual Property)
A Registered Copyright takes $10, two copies, in any form, and a one page form, download from USPTO.COM.
I had the same problem with Kinko's, I wanted copies of a book I wrote, and had some eighteen year old tell me I could not reproduce it because it was Copyrighted. It was, to me, but he was not trained in that part.
It had my name, Copyright, and the year on the title page, and all he could say was it is copyrighted, and we cannot reproduce copyrighted material.
If they do, they have a liability for copyright infringment. Training did not cover Copyright owners, as all books are made at The New York City Book Factory?
If you make a statment that you are the owner, they are off the hook.
One $10 filing can cover hundreds of works. Print out all of your designs, two copies, and it is up to the Courts after that. Copyright is a very vauge protection, nothing in a lot, but often powerful for a single character in a book.
Autism Speaks, as a Trademark has a very limited range, it only covers the name of a non profit fund raiser for autism research, and stuffing their own pockets with half the take.
Only where someone's actions and use could be mistaken for being them, does it have any merit.
Autism Speaks, does not speak for me, has a disclaimer built in.
You are in business and should know the rules. USC 37, Federal Law on Intellectual Property.
If Autism Speaks has a Lawyer send a letter to anyone, demanding that you Cease and Desist from using "Autism Speaks" under the "Trademark Law," contact me immediatly.
I am not a lawyer, but I know this game. |
Now thats a great advise, perhaps you, me and a few others with too much time could play ball with these idiots that call themselves Autism Speaks.
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Aspergers Syndrome News http://www.aspieweb.net/aspergers-news/ |
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Ana54
International Incident Initiator
Joined: Dec 27, 2005
Age: 21
Posts: 7373
Location: Canada and the US
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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Those pieces of sh**! I wish there was something I could do to help you, AspieZach. Is there?
_________________
Banned from WP between 5/09 and 9/09 for not answering 2 mods' PMs. I know that I never repeatedly broke the same rule. My boyfreind adverb and my mother Mysteria were banned for being my boyfriend and my mother. They did nothing. |
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AspieZach
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Ana54 wrote: | | Those pieces of sh**! I wish there was something I could do to help you, AspieZach. Is there? |
The best thing anyone can do is give this link to friends and spread the word...
http://www.aspieweb.net/aspieweb-being-bullied-by-autism-speaks/
Submit the website to websites like fark, digg, and other message boards, post it on your blog, facebook groups, etc. People need to see what Autism Speaks really does.
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MisterZip
Hummingbird
Joined: Jun 01, 2008
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldnt sweat it. Its just an email, theyre not going to sue you. Once you get certified letters, then thats something to look at, and to be honest, even those I would wait untill you get the 2nd one before I'd worry about it too much. They have NO case here, and its bad press for them and when a lawyer costs more money than they stand to gain from the suit, then most people dont go that route. If you've got money and assets, then I would get the sharkiest lawyer you can find and have him write them back a certified letter.
The problem with lawyers is they know how much money these letters can generate. Half the time the lawyers know if they write a letter that you will have to spend money to refute, they can string these out and they end up making more money. Its about money, not about law much of the time.
Dont worry, be patient, and dont be bullied. In this case, I wouldnt sweat it one bit. |
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AspieZach
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| MisterZip wrote: | I wouldnt sweat it. Its just an email, theyre not going to sue you. Once you get certified letters, then thats something to look at, and to be honest, even those I would wait untill you get the 2nd one before I'd worry about it too much. They have NO case here, and its bad press for them and when a lawyer costs more money than they stand to gain from the suit, then most people dont go that route. If you've got money and assets, then I would get the sharkiest lawyer you can find and have him write them back a certified letter.
The problem with lawyers is they know how much money these letters can generate. Half the time the lawyers know if they write a letter that you will have to spend money to refute, they can string these out and they end up making more money. Its about money, not about law much of the time.
Dont worry, be patient, and dont be bullied. In this case, I wouldnt sweat it one bit. |
I'm not sweating it, however people need to be aware of the tactics that Autism Speaks uses to shut up Autistic people.
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Aspergers Syndrome News http://www.aspieweb.net/aspergers-news/ |
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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 4711
Location: Transitional
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| AspieZach wrote: | | makuranososhi wrote: | | AspieZach wrote: | | If you read the whole thing, instead of being a pessimistic idiot you will read it was taken down due to a copyright violation complaint. |
AspieZach, I was not being pessimistic but instead explaining a business side reaction to the complaint letter which was from Zazzle as a result of an initial notice from Autism Speaks. Zazzle is protecting it's interests by not producing shirts that they are being told are in violation - regardless of the actual status, this is a preventative measure most companies would take. I would greatly appreciate it if you would refrain from insults, and invite you to take a moment to reread what I said. I support what you are doing, and would like to see it succeed in a manner that doesn't cause more problems for you and without damaging the reputation of those involved in a movement supportive of those on the spectrum vs. those who see it as only a condition to be cured. I also contributed an alternative:
Autism in Action - Action Speaks Louder Than Words
...that includes the words 'autism' and 'speaks' without infringing on their intellectual property, while being positive.
Again, I am trying to be supportive and do not appreciate the attack in response, no matter how mild it is. Please, take a moment.
M. |
What I did does not infringe of the rights of Autism Speaks and is covered by the copyright fair use policy. Using what you say completley changes the meaning of what I'm trying to put across and is then just plain dumb. |
If you don't like the suggestion, that is fine. My attempt was to point out why Zazzle responded as they did; Inventor has some guidance in regards to dealing with the situation. You've made your point, and linked to the original email extensively, which I hope at least improves awareness of your plight. Your attitude towards me has been generally hostile and negative; I don't have anything more to offer or contribute to you.
M.
_________________
He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
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AspieZach
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| makuranososhi wrote: | | AspieZach wrote: | | makuranososhi wrote: | | AspieZach wrote: | | If you read the whole thing, instead of being a pessimistic idiot you will read it was taken down due to a copyright violation complaint. |
AspieZach, I was not being pessimistic but instead explaining a business side reaction to the complaint letter which was from Zazzle as a result of an initial notice from Autism Speaks. Zazzle is protecting it's interests by not producing shirts that they are being told are in violation - regardless of the actual status, this is a preventative measure most companies would take. I would greatly appreciate it if you would refrain from insults, and invite you to take a moment to reread what I said. I support what you are doing, and would like to see it succeed in a manner that doesn't cause more problems for you and without damaging the reputation of those involved in a movement supportive of those on the spectrum vs. those who see it as only a condition to be cured. I also contributed an alternative:
Autism in Action - Action Speaks Louder Than Words
...that includes the words 'autism' and 'speaks' without infringing on their intellectual property, while being positive.
Again, I am trying to be supportive and do not appreciate the attack in response, no matter how mild it is. Please, take a moment.
M. |
What I did does not infringe of the rights of Autism Speaks and is covered by the copyright fair use policy. Using what you say completley changes the meaning of what I'm trying to put across and is then just plain dumb. |
If you don't like the suggestion, that is fine. My attempt was to point out why Zazzle responded as they did; Inventor has some guidance in regards to dealing with the situation. You've made your point, and linked to the original email extensively, which I hope at least improves awareness of your plight. Your attitude towards me has been generally hostile and negative; I don't have anything more to offer or contribute to you.
M. |
Thats a good thing.
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