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Chibi_Neko
Want a Cookie
Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 1800
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | Children already out of the womb and a few years old are tortured, abused and even murdered by their parents. Sometimes it's called homocide, depending on the scenario.
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A scenario like that would be prevented if the child wasn't born. A fetus consieved through rape are not planned children, and I cannot see how support would help a lot of girls because no two are alike in terms of abortion opinions.
People can say things like 'life is a gift, no matter the cost' and 'abortion is wrong' and so on as much as they like and stick to it, but unless they have have gotten pregnant as a result of rape they really can't say to victims 'keep the baby'. Forcing someone to put their body on the line against their will is just as wrong as the rape itself.
I still believe it's the girl's personal decision and not the religions groups.
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AnonymousAnonymous
Unemployed Student
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Age: 19
Posts: 8396
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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The girl has been traumatized
and if this was not allowed,
this would traumatize her all over again!
I would have ruled in favor of the girl.
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sartresue
Radical Aspergian
Joined: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 4614
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: Child rape victim allowed abortion |
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A traumatic topic
I agree with the allowing of the abortion. This pregnancy was spawned by rape should never have gone that far. 
I remember being 11 years old. I did not even knowhow babies were born, let alone how they came to be there in the first place! 
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Radical Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind
Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory |
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ChukoTheWarlike
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Apr 27, 2008
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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While rape, especially of this sort is where I *would* allow my exception to my 99.999% opposition to abortion, I feel that it's just not right to kill someone who was the result of someone else's heinous act.
See, if you don't think "abortion => rape" on the moral opprobrium scale, then this argument is just *not* going to move you. |
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Kamex
Raven
Joined: Sep 03, 2006
Age: 22
Posts: 121
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:48 am Post subject: Re: Child rape victim allowed abortion |
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| sartresue wrote: | A traumatic topic
I agree with the allowing of the abortion. This pregnancy was spawned by rape should never have gone that far.
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That's the Uncle's fault, not the fault of the fetus. I think there are plenty of children of rapes out there living today who would disagree with your opinion of them.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11222-worlds-most-premature-baby-set-to-leave-hospital.html
That's what a 21-week fetus is like. That's what is going to be killed, if he/she hasn't been already. The butchering of this fetus is not going to fix anything.
Last edited by Kamex on Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| No indeed. The bucthering of the fetus would only compound the tragedy. |
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Dantac
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Age: 31
Posts: 618
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Thing is.. the girl is a GIRL not an adult. The decision of the abortion after 21 weeks .. she doesn't have enough life experience to make a decision on something of this magnitude.
Yes, she was raped and its horrible. She is a hurt victim now... but later down the road in her life it will become much more traumatic the fact that she had the abortion.
A very sad situation  |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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I will spell it out for all you meatheads on WP
A- D- O- P- T- I- O- N
No baby-killing is necessary. How many infertile couples would give anything to have a baby of their own?
No, this wholeslaughter of fetuses is nonsense given how would-be parents live & breathe out there. Celebrity adopters really put it in our faces, just how kids need homes and families in this world.
Infanticide is serious and should not be performed to make someone's less a little less complicated.
Murder is a choice, sure it is. But is it the right one? |
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Chibi_Neko
Want a Cookie
Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 1800
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | I will spell it out for all you meatheads on WP
A- D- O- P- T- I- O- N
No baby-killing is necessary. How many infertile couples would give anything to have a baby of their own?
No, this wholeslaughter of fetuses is nonsense given how would-be parents live & breathe out there. Celebrity adopters really put it in our faces, just how kids need homes and families in this world.
Infanticide is serious and should not be performed to make someone's less a little less complicated.
Murder is a choice, sure it is. But is it the right one? |
Sorry to say.... but this is not going to solve a lot of issues.
Rape is traumatic, would you want to carry that reminder for 9 months and suffer hours of painful labor just because someone wanted a thrill? The rapist gets away scott-free from bodily changes and pain, and this little girl has to suffer for it. Where is the justice in that? The girl is a baby sac now? Used to carry a fetus against her will? Many pro-lifers are suggesting just that.
Suggesting adoption to victims is a joke! You can offer support, but it dosn't always work. You cannot know how the victims feel unless you become a victim yourself.
Have I been a victim of rape or unwanted pregnancy? No I have not.... so I would not know how I would feel, which is why the right to abortion is important.
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Do you at least acknowledge that abortion is an act of destruction?
D'oh! I don't have to a woman to understand the concept of murder.
Baby-sac? BABY-SAC?
Is that what feminism wats women to view themselves as? Ironic, since "modern men" are really nothing but sperm-dispensers to the modern woman.
I can actually* hear* our values getting vaccuumed out of our collective birth canal.
So much for the human species. |
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Chibi_Neko
Want a Cookie
Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 1800
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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slowmutant.... you are ignoring the fact on how one would feel in a rape situation and a unwanted pregnancy. Adoption is going to make it all better? If you where to talk to some victims their answers are going to be mixed. The people who don't want to go through with the pregnancy are the reason safe abortion is needed, if some victims want to go through with the pregnancy, then that's fine.
| slowmutant wrote: |
Baby-sac? BABY-SAC?
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That is basically a ugly term for 'your pregnant... your problem' many of the pro-lifers that I have encountered don't consider the circumstances of the pregnancy, all they care about is the fetus becoming a baby and getting born, they don't think of what the baby is in for after it's born, will it get adopted? will it be abandoned? Gosh I don't know, but I have read stories of both sides happening.
| slowmutant wrote: | Do you at least acknowledge that abortion is an act of destruction?
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It is not a act of destruction when it is done safely by a doctor and before the fetus becomes a baby (has a brain, heart ect.)
I don't agree with late-term abortions because if you wanted a abortion, it should have been done before the fetus became a baby, but in the case of this little girl, she had to fight against the religious groups and government which took time, and now that she has gotten the right, people are saying 'too far developed...too bad so sad'. Knowing these groups they dragged out the court procedures on purpose.
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Abortion at all costs, then?
And since when was adoption a joke? Is it a joke because it doesn't involve infantcide?
Pro-life should mean all the way, not just for the fetus. Not just for the mother. For everyone, for society as a whole. Is adoption somehow less satisfying to the feminist then the vengeful killing the rapists's baby?
You still haven't a moral to stand on, baby-killer. |
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Chibi_Neko
Want a Cookie
Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 1800
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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So someone gets raped, pregnant against her will, has no say on her own body? Her feelings on the situation dosn't matter at all? Women and girls who where forced into a pregnancy against their will have no choice but to go through with it? Even if support dosen't help and the victim is dead set on wanting a abortion, she is not permitted to make a decision about her body?
In resorting to name calling like 'baby-killer', you just reinforced what I am trying to say.
| slowmutant wrote: | | Abortion at all costs, then? |
This has no relation to my post prior to this response. What 'cost' are you refering to? If you are talking about the fetus, it dosen't become a actual viable baby until it's a few months old. This is why I am against late-term abortions, because they are actual babies, and if the mother wanted a abortion, she should have done it before it became a baby. The case with this 11-year old girl is different because she was being denied the choice she made, and in the time it took for the appeals to go through, the fetus contiuned to develop.
| slowmutant wrote: | | You still haven't a moral to stand on |
The moral ground I am standing on is very solid. Someone got this girl pregnant against her will, she should at least have a choice that wasn't given to her in the first place. If her choice is not to continue with a pregnancy she did not want, then she should have access to a safe abortion.
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Mage
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 1284
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Abortion is one of those things I never argue about, because no matter what you say, the other person isn't going to change their view. |
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Badass
Butterfly
Joined: Jul 04, 2008
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pro-choice. After all, it's not a baby yet. The women may be under all kinds of pressure
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