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Griff
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 1615
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 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | The great mathematicians
God is not a mathematical formula. |
Mathematics. I was referring to it as a means by which to understand the universe. All that it can really do is fill in for deficits in our own powers of perception and reasoning.
I understand that you believe in a personal god. I used to believe in him, remember. What about this are you not understanding?
Some people defiantly deny that I could ever have been a Christian if I became an atheist. I have been called a liar. I have been told that I was insincere. My family treated me like some kind of traitor. I have had quite my fill of being judged by people who pretend to know me. My father has never really been family after he disgraced himself over this. If you are just going to deny that I could ever understand your beliefs, then we had best terminate this conversation before it gets very personal.
I have had ten times more trouble in my life over being an atheist than I have ever had over being gay. I regularly have people tell me that everything I think and believe is crap. That's what you'd be in for if you were an atheist. It can get very bothersome. Most people I know won't believe that I ever understood Christianity, just because I am an atheist. They really don't understand that this is prejudice. As far as they are concerned, it's as obvious as saying, "the sky is blue." The ones I can convince that I understand Christianity never seem to believe that I'm an atheist. It's very frustrating. I've gotten to the point that I just avoid these conversations. I just can't tolerate them anymore. It's one thing for people to disagree with me. It's another to be called a liar.
| Quote: | | (BTW Griff your posts are beautifully written.) |
It is a benefit of being mentally disturbed. I say this playfully, but I do have some schizotypal tendencies, which can be associated with higher than usual facility with language. I can also make simple, repetitive sounds come through as music. I try not to do this too often, though, because I tend to become weirder and loopier than usual. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2066
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Griff wrote: | | slowmutant wrote: | The great mathematicians
God is not a mathematical formula. |
Mathematics. I was referring to it as a means by which to understand the universe. All that it can really do is fill in for deficits in our own powers of perception and reasoning.
I understand that you believe in a personal god. I used to believe in him, remember. What about this are you not understanding?
Some people defiantly deny that I could ever have been a Christian if I became an atheist. I have been called a liar. I have been told that I was insincere. My family treated me like some kind of traitor. I have had quite my fill of being judged by people who pretend to know me. My father has never really been family after he disgraced himself over this. If you are just going to deny that I could ever understand your beliefs, then we had best terminate this conversation before it gets very personal.
I have had ten times more trouble in my life over being an atheist than I have ever had over being gay. I regularly have people tell me that everything I think and believe is crap. That's what you'd be in for if you were an atheist. It can get very bothersome. Most people I know won't believe that I ever understood Christianity, just because I am an atheist. They really don't understand that this is prejudice. As far as they are concerned, it's as obvious as saying, "the sky is blue." The ones I can convince that I understand Christianity never seem to believe that I'm an atheist. It's very frustrating. I've gotten to the point that I just avoid these conversations. I just can't tolerate them anymore. It's one thing for people to disagree with me. It's another to be called a liar. |
I have to disagree with your comment here. Just because you might have identified with Christianity does not mean you knew anything about Christianity (their thinking etc). I used to identify as atheist, now I don't even understand a damn thing what atheists think.
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Griff
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 1615
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | I have to disagree with your comment here. Just because you might have identified with Christianity does not mean you knew anything about Christianity (their thinking etc). |
You speak as if you have never been through a personal metamorphosis. It is strange for me to consider a stranger a potential friend. It is peculiar for me to hear people laughing and not suspect them of personally ridiculing me. Even so, I find it extremely pleasant. To this day, it feels awkward to smile, but I never seem to get tired of doing it. I may not have been the best kind of Christian, but I feel that I have been enough of one to understand what it is to be one.
| Quote: | | I used to identify as atheist, now I don't even understand a damn thing what atheists think. |
You never really will. You won't find anything consistent in them except for what they are not. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2066
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Griff wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | I have to disagree with your comment here. Just because you might have identified with Christianity does not mean you knew anything about Christianity (their thinking etc). |
You speak as if you have never been through a personal metamorphosis. It is strange for me to consider a stranger a potential friend. It is peculiar for me to hear people laughing and not suspect them of personally ridiculing me. Even so, I find it extremely pleasant. To this day, it feels awkward to smile, but I never seem to get tired of doing it. I may not have been the best kind of Christian, but I feel that I have been enough of one to understand what it is to be one.
| Quote: | | I used to identify as atheist, now I don't even understand a damn thing what atheists think. |
You never really will. You won't find anything consistent in them except for what they are not. |
You worry too much about people. I do the same and I do not know why. I have pretty much stopped talking to the majority of the people I used to hang out with. They go out, drink, etc. Not my thing anymore. The whole "You're turning your back" etc. talk, meh. Yes, I turned my back because it is no longer important or meaningful to me.
That is what I was hinting at though. Not all are the same. I can go and speak to a dozen hindus, they will not all tell me the same thing.
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I'm no democRAT, I'm a republiCAN! |
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Griff
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 1615
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Griff wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | I have to disagree with your comment here. Just because you might have identified with Christianity does not mean you knew anything about Christianity (their thinking etc). |
You speak as if you have never been through a personal metamorphosis. It is strange for me to consider a stranger a potential friend. It is peculiar for me to hear people laughing and not suspect them of personally ridiculing me. Even so, I find it extremely pleasant. To this day, it feels awkward to smile, but I never seem to get tired of doing it. I may not have been the best kind of Christian, but I feel that I have been enough of one to understand what it is to be one.
| Quote: | | I used to identify as atheist, now I don't even understand a damn thing what atheists think. |
You never really will. You won't find anything consistent in them except for what they are not. |
You worry too much about people. |
Not anymore. As I told you, I find it very pleasant to actually like people without having to feel attached to them, and I think it's the best idea ever. I once went through my mind cutting off misguided attachments, and the "personal god" was one of them. I needed to clean up the attic. Now I think I make better use of my mind. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8957
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| How can you like someone without being attached to them? Just curious. |
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Griff
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 1615
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | How can you like someone without being attached to them? Just curious. |
Why do you have to be attached to people to get along with them? That's the thing. I just try to smile and make nice to people in general now. It really works a lot better, and I am glad that I learned this.
Don't be offended, but God is one of several things that I threw out a long time ago when I cleaned out the attic. I think that my reasons for being an atheist today are much better than the ones I had at the time, though. At the time, I was just wanting a clean slate, so I could live a better life. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8957
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Fair enough.
I don't mean to pry. |
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Griff
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 1615
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| No problem. You are a very nice person, and I would not want to take your god away from you. That's for you to consider, not for me. I just have very strong opinions on the subject. If I am asked for them, I will deliver, and I will not lie. |
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Griff
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 1615
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| And stop attributing things to my homosexuality. This isn't nearly as offensive as it is silly. |
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