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crackedpleasures
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 14, 2007
Posts: 1777
Location: In between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown, CZ
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 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| No_YOU_get_over_it wrote: | | crackedpleasures wrote: | | I do not feel like wearing a mask every day to keep the relationship going. I want a girl that loves me for who I really am and not for someone I pretend to be. |
Where do you draw the line between letting it all hang out and conducting oneself so that others have a better chance of getting to see the real you? Does improvement of one's own habits, treatment of others etc - and integration of these in one's way of being - have a place in your approach?
Example: the NTincompoop stbxH felt he belonged to a higher social class. But table manners, well, that was something for dress-up. I, OTOH, don't care much about the labels. I can't be bothered with consistently noticing where I am at any given time, so I do my best to maintain the best possible manners even when I'm alone. He found it ridiculously unfair that I preferred he maintain at least semi-civilised table manners when it was "just" the two of us. Was I expecting him to wear a mask? I don't think there's a yes or no answer to that. His consistent disregard for others - and his expectation that others accommodate him, without him having to express what he wanted or give credit for the effort made - made it unpleasant to be around him. Any improvements were, for him, just a masquerade game, and he made certain anyone who might have benefited from that was duly punished.
| crackedpleasures wrote: | | it may require a bit of patience to find the right person but it will give a bigger chance that things will actually last. |
Well, from NTincompoop's view, the right woman won't ever expect anything of him, won't find anything about him unpleasant. He once held up a pair of unflattering sandals he liked to wear out and about with socks, and proclaimed he was going to place a personal ad on the internet, with a picture of the sandals, and state, "You must find these sandals sexy." It wasn't about sandals for me. I as the American wife got blamed for all of his fashion faux pas in his conservative little hamlet, and he was thrilled to use the license of anti-Americanism to walk around like a slob after decades of conformity. Your advice would be perfect for him: a relationship on his terms will only last with the right woman. She, I ain't.
I recall an LP about "Tubby the Tuba" at the circus. Danny Kaye is the voice of an elephant, telling Tubby the Tuba, "Be Yourself." Tubby had tired of working as a water carrier and tried, unsuccessfully, to be a tightrope walker. I don't think the elephant was suggesting the tuba fall into disrepair or give up on finding a place in the circus. This thinking of either water carrier or tightrope walker, nothing in between, seems a common tendency for us Aspies. It feels like the only alternative to a lose-lose game is passive withdrawal. Thereby we miss out on wise counsel to work with our strengths and find niches of our own rather than rusting in a closet or badly aping the tutu'd tightrope walkers.
There have been various concerned elephants in my life. It used to take me years to understand what they were singing. What? I might want to consider making some adjustments in my selection of attire? When I finally tried wearing a suit,* I was shocked at how very me I did feel, and how such a superficial change so drastically shifted the space in which I'd been operating. Since then, I try to make sense of elephant songs once I recognize the tone. Wish I could say I've got it and understand what they're saying and what to do the very first time, but I guess it's a longer process for me.
*How I tricked myself into wearing a suit is another story for another day. |
The examples you name are not really pretending to be someone else, as in pretending to have different interests, different emotions, different opinions... just to please a girl. If you do that, the relationship is doomed to fail because she is being attracted to a mask.
Just thinking of some proper manners to incorporate in your own standard behaviour, is a different story alltogether and obviously advisable. I was more refering like trying to pretend you're someone different than you really are in terms of interests, character, etc.
_________________
You did it again, yes, you in the mirror
You put your faith in a cruel world...
All my dead friends come to haunt, harm and hinder
Never letting go, here to drag me down to hell
(London After Midnight) |
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Cyberman
Cyber Lieutenant
Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Posts: 1259
Location: Cyber Control
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| No_YOU_get_over_it wrote: | | Cyberman wrote: |
Why should I be joking? I've been "myself" my whole life, and I've never had a single girlfriend. |
Well, if going for the married ones works for you, then don't let anyone pressure you into looking for single women. |
Ha. 
Maybe this makes more sense:
Cyberman's total number of girlfriends: ZERO |
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Cyberman
Cyber Lieutenant
Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Posts: 1259
Location: Cyber Control
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| And if you think that's funny, then you can kiss my shiny, hydraulic-powered ass. |
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pbcoll
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Baffi wrote: | | For example, if you go to a bar with a girl on a Friday night even though bars make you uncomfortable, you're not being yourself. |
To point out the obvious, if you are a guy that doesn't like clubs or bars, doesn't like dancing, etc, then the chances of finding a remotely compatible girl that isn't already taken for the long haul are extremely slim, as I should know from experience. ('Be yourself'? Wow, I thought I was being Genghis Khan. But more to the point, if we try to not be ourselves, could it be because actually being ourselves has gotten us nowhere?)
The truth is, most times 'be yourself' really means 'be yourself, my way, or I won't like you.' Take dancing, for example. Even on WP the consensus is that if you don't love dancing that's because you're too chicken to be seen dancing in public - yet even when I've been in my 'I couldn't care less what anyone thinks' moods I haven't enjoyed it. It doesn't cause panic in me, it causes boredom. I've done freestyle dancing and proper dancing and it applies to both; dancing doesn't do anything for me. I barely feel the beat, and have little desire to follow it. So if I hit the dance floor, I'm not being myself, period - yet clubbing seems to be just about the only way anybody in my generation finds someone.
If I choose reading a book or drawing over getting wasted or going to a club, I am being myself - but I'm also being the sort of guy that bores women to tears and that they're never interested in except at most as a friend.
A related piece of advice is 'live a little' - it means 'have fun, MY way, whether you enjoy it or not.'
_________________
I neither take revenge, nor beg for favours. (Rabindranath Tagore)
I am the steppenwolf that never learned to dance. (Sedaka) |
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BigK
Raven
Joined: Jan 14, 2008
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| pbcol wrote: |
To point out the obvious, if you are a guy that doesn't like clubs or bars, doesn't like dancing, etc, then the chances of finding a remotely compatible girl that isn't already taken for the long haul are extremely slim, as I should know from experience. |
Not everyone in the entire world is into those things.
Sure, a lot of people are. But if you fake an interest in those things you may find a partner easier but you are also likely to get fed up with each other if she wants to be out every weekend but you just want to stay home.
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It’s a dangerous business going out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don’t keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to. |
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Cyberman
Cyber Lieutenant
Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Posts: 1259
Location: Cyber Control
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| pbcoll wrote: | If I choose reading a book or drawing over getting wasted or going to a club, I am being myself - but I'm also being the sort of guy that bores women to tears and that they're never interested in except at most as a friend.
A related piece of advice is 'live a little' - it means 'have fun, MY way, whether you enjoy it or not.' |
QFILT - Quoted for infallibly logical truth. |
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No_YOU_get_over_it
Toucan
Joined: Jun 29, 2008
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| crackedpleasures wrote: |
really are in terms of interests, character, etc. |
Kind of tough given that he didn't have his own interests or sense of character. He was a clone of his parents, then he adopted a lot of my interests, hobbies, tastes. It was always a conflict between his parents' tastes and mine. In the realm of physical preferences alone:
-I prefer not to eat pork; he noticed he preferred not to eat it either.
-I prefer dry red wines; his sweet whites suddenly lost favor.
-I started sewing my own clothing, he begged me not to tell anyone; after modeling a pair of drawstring linen cargo pants I was making for my brother, he suddenly wanted a pair and got a place in the workshop I attended.
-He thought U.S. baked goods were too sweet and complained I made brownies too often; when I stopped making them, he got antsy and asked for the recipe, and got into a baking routine so that his freezer was always stocked and he could eat two a day.
-I generally avoid using mixes, and cook simple things from quality ingredients; oops, his sauce mixes etc didn't suit him any more.
-"busy" patterns in decor, bedding etc bother me; at once he found monochromatic curtains etc 'more tasteful.'
"Be yourself" is probably especially difficult for NTs, who tend to expect super-sameness in a couple construct. Is it perhaps an advantage that we Aspies have acceptance of oddityand not-quite-match built in?
Once I moved out, NTincompoop started falling back into the parents-default. His wine cellar had sweet reds, then whites. He was rediscovering his love for instant packaged foods. I no longer have any contact w/ him, not even what I should be doing to tie up the divorce, but I'd be willing to bet he's back to eating and dressing exactly as his parents do. Good for him.
_________________
- NYGOI
NB: contents of above post represent my opinion at time of post only. YMMV, NAYY, and most importantly, IALBTC! |
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No_YOU_get_over_it
Toucan
Joined: Jun 29, 2008
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| pbcoll wrote: |
A related piece of advice is 'live a little' - it means 'have fun, MY way, whether you enjoy it or not.' |
Statements like these feel so invalidating, I generally seal myself off from those who make them.
What about libraries, geeky interest clubs etc? Granted, I wasn't many people's dream girl in college, but I often wondered why I didn't meet love in the library. I'm not saying you should cruise the stacks, but the clubbing crowd is really just a very visible minority. Hope you don't let that trip you up too much.
_________________
- NYGOI
NB: contents of above post represent my opinion at time of post only. YMMV, NAYY, and most importantly, IALBTC! |
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catspurr
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 16, 2008
Posts: 781
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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I take just be yourself as try not to be overly fake or make up stuff about yourself.
If you find areas you could improve on, do just that. |
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tharn
Toucan
Joined: Apr 22, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 255
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Being yourself, while working consistantly at being the type of person worth loving, is the best bet to start building a deep and lasting relationship. But being yourself is still no guarantee against ending up sad and lonely. But those are your BEST odds.
Showing interest in a potential partner's interests is not insincere; and not the same as adopting them as your own:
Her: "I am enamoured with elephants. I can't stop studying them!"
Him: "Oh yeah? Do you have a favorite kind of elephant?"
Her: "Blah blah blah elephants blah blah..."
Versus
Her: "I am enamoured with elephants. I can't stop studying them!"
Him: "I like elephants too! They're my favorite animals. [Please like me.]"
Her: "It's great to meet someone else who has an interest in elephants! Tell me, which subspecies is your favorite?"
Him: "Uh.. uhm... err..."
Of course, I wish there were better ways to meet people besides getting drunk, screaming over dance club music, and squinting through cigarette smoke. The social dating scene in general is certainly not biased in favor of people on the spectrum. I'm still looking for a good way to find others myself.
But yeah, being yourself is absolutely necessary if you want to build something meaningful. Improving yourself makes you more impressive to others too. And there are certainly ways you can further improve your odds. But there is nothing anywhere that guarantees you will find a good match. It sucks, but nobody owes you true love, or even a girl/boyfriend. And getting a chip on your shoulder about being denied one is a great way to scare off potential candidates. |
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pbcoll
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| BigK wrote: | | pbcol wrote: |
To point out the obvious, if you are a guy that doesn't like clubs or bars, doesn't like dancing, etc, then the chances of finding a remotely compatible girl that isn't already taken for the long haul are extremely slim, as I should know from experience. |
Not everyone in the entire world is into those things.
Sure, a lot of people are. But if you fake an interest in those things you may find a partner easier but you are also likely to get fed up with each other if she wants to be out every weekend but you just want to stay home. |
No, not everyone in the world is crazy about that sort of thing, but the problem is the few girls that aren't crazy about that sort of thing are taken for the long haul, at least all the ones I ever get to meet. So my options are being myself and single, or pretending I'm someone I'm not, which would probably not work either because in the end it fools no one.
| No_YOU_get_over_it wrote: | | pbcoll wrote: |
A related piece of advice is 'live a little' - it means 'have fun, MY way, whether you enjoy it or not.' |
Statements like these feel so invalidating, I generally seal myself off from those who make them.
What about libraries, geeky interest clubs etc? Granted, I wasn't many people's dream girl in college, but I often wondered why I didn't meet love in the library. I'm not saying you should cruise the stacks, but the clubbing crowd is really just a very visible minority. Hope you don't let that trip you up too much. |
In interest clubs I've never even made friends, so it's a route I've given up on. As for libraries, I wouldn't know who to approach or what to say (esp. what to say).
_________________
I neither take revenge, nor beg for favours. (Rabindranath Tagore)
I am the steppenwolf that never learned to dance. (Sedaka) |
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latreefarmer
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: May 20, 2008
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dating is about attracting a mate. Every species has their own form of rituals they must follow to gain a mate. Ours is no different. It takes effort, whther you are NT or not.
When I was in my mid-twenties I decided to get serious about studying women and how to get one. I swallowed my pride, grew some balls, and got out there and tried to meet them. I asked a lot of questions, got a lot of advice from key women, and then started asking a lot of them out. I DID NOT try to be myself, I tried to be someone they would be attracted to.
Then, after you pass first base, you start revealing the real you. No one will put up with our bad habits and annoying tendencies until after they have had time to get to know us. It is expecting too much to expect otherwise. There is nothing wrong with trying to be a gentleman and saying what ladies want to hear at first. That's what they want.
NT or AS, it's about what they want, not being yourself. |
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crackedpleasures
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 14, 2007
Posts: 1777
Location: In between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown, CZ
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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I think some posts confirm my earlier statements: playing a role is OK if you really want a girlfriend really fast. But it will not end up well in the long term.
Personally I rather wait 5 more years to then meet that girl that loves me for whom I am rather than changing my ways the slightest bit. I am not the life of the party (and I will never be) and I usually don't even fall for girls who like clubbing and such. Why would I then bother to join the masquerade to get a girl that won't fulfill my needs? I rather wait until I meet the girl that does.
And guess what, there are females out there just like you who also fear they are too different to ever get the guy they really long for. Be patient and you will find one, and then you will really be happy rather than having to act being happy while knowing the girl you're seeing is not really the girl you were hoping to date.
By the way, did you try dating sites? I haven't myself although I do consider it, seems some of them such as eHarmony and OKCupid have very detailed profiles including even things like professional dreams, political preferences, etc. So maybe this is something you can use to trace that girl that really suits you rather than join the masquerade out of fear to end up lonely.
_________________
You did it again, yes, you in the mirror
You put your faith in a cruel world...
All my dead friends come to haunt, harm and hinder
Never letting go, here to drag me down to hell
(London After Midnight) |
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JerryHatake
Die Hard Mason Fan
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 9388
Location: Woodbridge, VA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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I think that being yourself when getting a female better is somewhat simple at times and evenutally something good will happen to you based upon your effort.
_________________
Each person gets his or her own freedom and passion one by one
For us who were born in order to shine, our journey will continue
The trump card that supports the uncertain days is your Soul
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Diamond_Head
Blue Jay
Joined: Jul 01, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 78
Location: Kauai, Hawaii *Li`uli`u wale ka nohona i ka la o Hauola*
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | An example of such man is this Diamond_Head dude from Hawaii who's trying to convince that he was just being himself to attract the girl of his life like magic and that guys in his country just be themselves and attract girls like bees to honey. |
lol, hey man, if you don't like what I wrote in my thread or were offended by it, feel free to disregard anything I said. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything at all. I don't care enough about the subject to keep arguing about it.
Like I already said: if you don't agree with what I wrote, that's cool. I'm sure you can find your own way in life without needing anyone else's advice.
No offense meant to you, or anyone else for that matter. Life goes on bro. |
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