I hate religious people, why is that a problem?

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KaiG
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07 Aug 2010, 12:16 pm

I don't hate them, I just despair whenever I'm exposed to them.


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iamnotaparakeet
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07 Aug 2010, 12:59 pm

KaiG wrote:
I don't hate them, I just despair whenever I'm exposed to them.


Despair!! ! :twisted:



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07 Aug 2010, 8:05 pm

Ishmael wrote:
I'm serious here. I'm honest enough with myself to know I hate the religious. I can't help it; the religious perspective is in stark contrast to my own. The... refusal to even argue on common grounds, the retreat into doctrine when challenged.

Now, some people see this as a character flaw on my part. Why? I'm not going to pretend to like them. Why should I? I'm being honest here, it's a fact of my life, so be it. I find no personal fault with it; after all, from a professional standard - I cannot abide their anti-scientific world views. I would not be straying to suggest they disgust me; no offense intended, I'm merely stating my feelings towards them. Now, I know the people this thread will attract... I also know the response they may make - so be it.
But, the fact that I hate them is not the point; the point is, as I said, why should that be a problem?

Even my family, agnostics and atheists, say I should not hate them. Why? If I were to try, I would be merely pretending, until I fail and can not pretend to "respect" them anymore. They are wrong! Why is it taboo to say that!? They are, by my considerations, idiots! Uneducated fools; moreso to the ones attending religious education facilities.
So, why is being honest on my views to them "wrong"? Unpleasant for these people, to hear my views, perhaps. But, it's my open, honest opinion, and if they can spout on about the "evils" of "non-belief", why can't I call them out for being contradictory, tear down offensive posters about non-belief. I mean, vehemently offensive posters.
Acknowledgements of distaste are one thing; bordering on encouraging violence against atheists and other religions posted on a wooden cross are another!

I have always had a problem with religious people; I have no qualms about voicing my concerns over them. So why do people encourage me to "respect" them, considering their own behaviours to other religions, or those without the need to cling to ancient comforts?

Why is that seen as being wrong?! Notice any contradictions? So why can't it just be viewed as a mutual given?


What about religious people who are very quiet and private about their religion, don't try to lay a trip on others and are inspired by their religion to do human and charitable deeds? Do you hate them too? Would you be annoyed by the Amish folk? Assuming you are not stuck behind one of their horse and buggy vehicles that is.

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07 Aug 2010, 8:06 pm

KaiG wrote:
I don't hate them, I just despair whenever I'm exposed to them.


Exposed to any of them or just some of them?

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08 Aug 2010, 12:35 am

hale_bopp wrote:
The problem is "hate" is a very strong word.

What if you liked everything else about a person? Would you still not be a friend to them?

Also it doesn't hurt to open your mind a little, I'm not religious and base my views on science and spiritual energy. Not saying you should, but the problem could be people see you as narrow minded.. just as bad as narrow minded Christians...

..My favourite Christian is Christian Bale ;)


Hate to me has always been the descriptive term for a state of mind that is intolerant and hostile.

When we say we hate something it is disharmonious and raises the anxiety levels, it sets off a natural defensive stance in those who experience it being said - particularly if one is included in some respect within the hated group be that the case. It is unfortunate that this is how it is but most human interactions are dominated by a far from cerebral set of motivations etc.

I myself have a deep respect for the spiritual/inquiring mind but am uncomfortable as hell with most of what I see as the fallout from organised 'religion' and the 'religious' minded, particularly the judeo/christian root faiths. There seems to be so much intolerance and prejudice born of monotheism and the surrender to an effectively feudal social organism.

For me one thing about taking an inquiring/philosophical approach to life is that it should bring some sense of peace and consolation to the uneasy ego, this in part is about taming the non-cerebral responses through understanding.If it is a social dynamic it should increase the peace, bring harmony, surely?

Surrender to a doctrine is to tie oneself to a mast that is keeled in the past, it is fixed its evolution slowed. It is an assumption of total understanding and to my mind somewhat foolish. This does nothing to deny however the useful truths on which the popularity of these 'faiths' is based, I just feel that they may have been the best thing going in another time and place but have in many respects ceased to be the best approach available now, everything is evolving.

just some thoughts, peace j


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08 Aug 2010, 1:28 am

KaiG wrote:
I don't hate them, I just despair whenever I'm exposed to them.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB7o8x0wPhs&feature=related[/youtube]



GreySun369
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08 Aug 2010, 3:34 pm

I honestly don't really hate religions or religous people. Even though I poke fun at Christains for things like killing and torturing Pagens or anyone that didn't follow their beliefs, ruining the culture of the Native Americans and Africans and trying to wash their hands of it, and the fact that they still refuse to accept the fact that homosexuals are people too and that God didn't invent AIDS just to kill them all off. I still truely believe that everybody should have the right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anybody.

Religion with all its flaws, does do some good for people. It gives people a purpose and helps them to forget how meaningless life really is. Like all things in life, you just have to take religion with the good and the bad.



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08 Aug 2010, 7:29 pm

Ghandi based the lion's share of his ideas off of the Jain faith. However, he mixed enough of his personal hatred and bias in with touches of Hinduism so that the local population had a much easier time following him than the restrictive teachings of Jainism.

Martin Luther King Jr. also based the grounds of his movement off of Jainism, not Christianity. He used many of the same tactics as Ghandi did earlier in the 20th century, but adapting it to the American sociopolitical situation rather than the Indian.

Personally, I find it hard to even contemplate "hate". OP's opinion stems from some deep-rooted hatred towards religion, but I simply can't understand this. When someone tells me that they are religious, I find my opinion of them dropping, but I can't say that I honestly have any emotional response to this. This is not meant to discount your emotional response in any way, but rather as a contrast of our similar viewpoints. Additionally, I don't wish to "piss anyone off" on the religious side, because I can honestly say I have no strong emotion either way, simply a philosophical and logical stance on why I disagree with you.

With that said, I cannot abide the company of most people who outwardly express their religious views in any way. This probably stems from a lot of reasons. My religious upbringing (Mormon), surrounded by a vast firewall of mind-crushingly illogical discussion, ignorance, and a close-mindedness towards any progressive thought, inquiries towards the basis or historical fact behind the founding of said religion, or general dissent in any way probably caused much of the souring. This escalated over the course of my teen years, as I began to explore the boundaries of the views that the people around me held, and I began to notice that almost nobody had any knowledge whatsoever about the founding of their particular church, the specifics of any other religion (even those encompassed under the same umbrella i.e. Catholic/Lutheran/Protestant), or any ancient religions that details of their own faith were based off of. This became very unsettling and I've found it to be true in nearly every religious discussion I've had over the course of my life. This further "turned me off" to those that consider themselves religious, as I have a very hard time understanding how someone can base so much of their lives and actions on something they don't understand. When discussing this very same point with these same religious folks, it ceaselessly leads them back to retreat into their dogma, and usually ends in a personal attack on my sources or character.

But I still can't figure out how or why to "hate" these people. OP, what bridges the gap between my complete lack of comprehension at this view of the world and your nearly dogmatic hatred of these same people? Furthermore, what stops the bridge between your hatred and the views of people like the Islamic Extremists like the Taliban and Al'Qaeda, Buddhist Extremists of Japan in WW2 fame, or Christian Extremists like the Army of God, Ku Klux Klan, or the thousands of other hate-grounded Christian groups currently operating in America?

TL;DR
I hold a similar stance on religion and those religious, but how do you go from "utter disbelief at their blindness and stupidity" to "hatred", and how does this make you any better than Extremist groups?



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08 Aug 2010, 9:46 pm

Hate of any kind just leads a person to anger and resentment; and these negative emotions may in turn lead to ulcers, headaches, heart problems, and other physical ailments. This isn't to say that if a person has a headache, he is covered in hate, anger, and resentment; but it does suggest that prolong hate, anger, and resentment may have serious health consequences. Just something to ponder.


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09 Aug 2010, 1:00 am

Jesus loves ya too!


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09 Aug 2010, 12:23 pm

GreySun369 wrote:
I honestly don't really hate religions or religous people. Even though I poke fun at Christains for things like killing and torturing Pagens or anyone that didn't follow their beliefs, ruining the culture of the Native Americans and Africans and trying to wash their hands of it, and the fact that they still refuse to accept the fact that homosexuals are people too and that God didn't invent AIDS just to kill them all off. I still truely believe that everybody should have the right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anybody.

Religion with all its flaws, does do some good for people. It gives people a purpose and helps them to forget how meaningless life really is. Like all things in life, you just have to take religion with the good and the bad.


But what you say about "Christians" isn't true. That is, it's not "Christians" as a group, the whole of them, that did that. Certain groups within Christianity, and certain people within those groups. And most of what you say is things of the past. As for your claim about views of homosexuals, I won't say they're aren't any who feel that way, but, honestly, I wouldn't even accuse Fred Phelps of not accepting that homosexuals are people. Thinking someone's a sinner isn't the same as thinking they aren't a person. Plus, not all Christians think homosexuality is wrong.


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09 Aug 2010, 1:40 pm

Mysty wrote:
GreySun369 wrote:
I honestly don't really hate religions or religous people. Even though I poke fun at Christains for things like killing and torturing Pagens or anyone that didn't follow their beliefs, ruining the culture of the Native Americans and Africans and trying to wash their hands of it, and the fact that they still refuse to accept the fact that homosexuals are people too and that God didn't invent AIDS just to kill them all off. I still truely believe that everybody should have the right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anybody.

Religion with all its flaws, does do some good for people. It gives people a purpose and helps them to forget how meaningless life really is. Like all things in life, you just have to take religion with the good and the bad.


But what you say about "Christians" isn't true. That is, it's not "Christians" as a group, the whole of them, that did that. Certain groups within Christianity, and certain people within those groups. And most of what you say is things of the past. As for your claim about views of homosexuals, I won't say they're aren't any who feel that way, but, honestly, I wouldn't even accuse Fred Phelps of not accepting that homosexuals are people. Thinking someone's a sinner isn't the same as thinking they aren't a person. Plus, not all Christians think homosexuality is wrong.


Ah, good ol' technicality.

So what you're trying to say is that those people were Christians but not really Christians? I'm sure not all Christians agreed with it or still agree with it, but the majority did at the time and nothing can change the fact that they did some pretty horrible things to these "sinners". These people were just as "Christian" as the Christians of today, it's just that the ones of today haven't felt the need to slaughter and victimize hundreds of people just to prove their point lately.

As for your the subject homosexuality, the Bible makes it pretty clear that gays are icky and evil and that it was OK for God to roast an entire city of them. Even if Christains are starting to realize that there are worst things then homosexuals, that doesn't change the fact that their religion still says it's a no-no, and if you can ignore that rule you might as well ignore every other rule in the Bible.

Look, don't take what I'm saying too harsly. I don't hate Christians or any other orgaized religions. The majority of my family is still Christian and I still love them even if I don't agree with their beliefs. I'm just simply pointing out the facts. Religion has its ups and downs just like everything else in life. :wink:



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09 Aug 2010, 1:57 pm

GreySun369 wrote:
Mysty wrote:
GreySun369 wrote:
I honestly don't really hate religions or religous people. Even though I poke fun at Christains for things like killing and torturing Pagens or anyone that didn't follow their beliefs, ruining the culture of the Native Americans and Africans and trying to wash their hands of it, and the fact that they still refuse to accept the fact that homosexuals are people too and that God didn't invent AIDS just to kill them all off. I still truely believe that everybody should have the right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anybody.

Religion with all its flaws, does do some good for people. It gives people a purpose and helps them to forget how meaningless life really is. Like all things in life, you just have to take religion with the good and the bad.


But what you say about "Christians" isn't true. That is, it's not "Christians" as a group, the whole of them, that did that. Certain groups within Christianity, and certain people within those groups. And most of what you say is things of the past. As for your claim about views of homosexuals, I won't say they're aren't any who feel that way, but, honestly, I wouldn't even accuse Fred Phelps of not accepting that homosexuals are people. Thinking someone's a sinner isn't the same as thinking they aren't a person. Plus, not all Christians think homosexuality is wrong.


Ah, good ol' technicality.

So what you're trying to say is that those people were Christians but not really Christians? I'm sure not all Christians agreed with it or still agree with it, but the majority did at the time and nothing can change the fact that they did some pretty horrible things to these "sinners". These people were just as "Christian" as the Christians of today, it's just that the ones of today haven't felt the need to slaughter and victimize hundreds of people just to prove their point lately.

As for your the subject homosexuality, the Bible makes it pretty clear that gays are icky and evil and that it was OK for God to roast an entire city of them. Even if Christains are starting to realize that there are worst things then homosexuals, that doesn't change the fact that their religion still says it's a no-no, and if you can ignore that rule you might as well ignore every other rule in the Bible.

Look, don't take what I'm saying too harsly. I don't hate Christians or any other orgaized religions. The majority of my family is still Christian and I still love them even if I don't agree with their beliefs. I'm just simply pointing out the facts. Religion has its ups and downs just like everything else in life. :wink:


Actually, it does not appear as though Mysty was arguing by definition, but rather regarding subsets. On the other hand, you are arguing by composition.

I think vaporizing a town which near entirely finds crime permissible, specifically one which gang-rapes any visitors to it, to be acceptable, but then again politically I am an Imperialist. :twisted: Seriously though, you want to see both actual hatred for homosexuals, and misogyny as well, then move to Iran or Afghanistan or any other country which strictly follows Sharia law.

Heck, even Dawkins had this to say:

Richard Dawkins wrote:
There are no Christians, as far as I know, blowing up buildings. I am not aware of any Christian suicide bombers. I am not aware of any major Christian denomination that believes the penalty for apostasy is death. I have mixed feelings about the decline of Christianity, in so far as Christianity might be a bulwark against something worse.



Last edited by iamnotaparakeet on 09 Aug 2010, 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GreySun369
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09 Aug 2010, 2:03 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
GreySun369 wrote:
Mysty wrote:
GreySun369 wrote:
I honestly don't really hate religions or religous people. Even though I poke fun at Christains for things like killing and torturing Pagens or anyone that didn't follow their beliefs, ruining the culture of the Native Americans and Africans and trying to wash their hands of it, and the fact that they still refuse to accept the fact that homosexuals are people too and that God didn't invent AIDS just to kill them all off. I still truely believe that everybody should have the right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anybody.

Religion with all its flaws, does do some good for people. It gives people a purpose and helps them to forget how meaningless life really is. Like all things in life, you just have to take religion with the good and the bad.


But what you say about "Christians" isn't true. That is, it's not "Christians" as a group, the whole of them, that did that. Certain groups within Christianity, and certain people within those groups. And most of what you say is things of the past. As for your claim about views of homosexuals, I won't say they're aren't any who feel that way, but, honestly, I wouldn't even accuse Fred Phelps of not accepting that homosexuals are people. Thinking someone's a sinner isn't the same as thinking they aren't a person. Plus, not all Christians think homosexuality is wrong.


Ah, good ol' technicality.

So what you're trying to say is that those people were Christians but not really Christians? I'm sure not all Christians agreed with it or still agree with it, but the majority did at the time and nothing can change the fact that they did some pretty horrible things to these "sinners". These people were just as "Christian" as the Christians of today, it's just that the ones of today haven't felt the need to slaughter and victimize hundreds of people just to prove their point lately.

As for your the subject homosexuality, the Bible makes it pretty clear that gays are icky and evil and that it was OK for God to roast an entire city of them. Even if Christains are starting to realize that there are worst things then homosexuals, that doesn't change the fact that their religion still says it's a no-no, and if you can ignore that rule you might as well ignore every other rule in the Bible.

Look, don't take what I'm saying too harsly. I don't hate Christians or any other orgaized religions. The majority of my family is still Christian and I still love them even if I don't agree with their beliefs. I'm just simply pointing out the facts. Religion has its ups and downs just like everything else in life. :wink:


Actually, it does not appear as though Mysty was arguing by definition, but rather regarding subsets. On the other hand, you are arguing by composition.

I think vaporizing a town which near entirely finds crime permissible, specifically one which gang-rapes any visitors to it, to be acceptable, but then again politically I am an Imperialist. :twisted:


Ah... well.... you got me there.

Still, I stand by opinion on the whole subject. Nothing will change that. :P



iamnotaparakeet
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09 Aug 2010, 2:10 pm

Seriously though, you want to see both actual hatred for homosexuals, and misogyny as well, then move to Iran or Afghanistan or any other country which strictly follows Sharia law.

Heck, even Dawkins had this to say:

Richard Dawkins wrote:
There are no Christians, as far as I know, blowing up buildings. I am not aware of any Christian suicide bombers. I am not aware of any major Christian denomination that believes the penalty for apostasy is death. I have mixed feelings about the decline of Christianity, in so far as Christianity might be a bulwark against something worse.



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09 Aug 2010, 2:16 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Seriously though, you want to see both actual hatred for homosexuals, and misogyny as well, then move to Iran or Afghanistan or any other country which strictly follows Sharia law.

Heck, even Dawkins had this to say:

Richard Dawkins wrote:
There are no Christians, as far as I know, blowing up buildings. I am not aware of any Christian suicide bombers. I am not aware of any major Christian denomination that believes the penalty for apostasy is death. I have mixed feelings about the decline of Christianity, in so far as Christianity might be a bulwark against something worse.


Well no, Christians aren't killing people as much as the fanatical Muslims are now. That doesn't mean they never went through a period where fanatics were killing hundreds of innocent people, or that they never will again in the future.

That's probably just the cynic in me talking though.