pandd
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Posts: 2582
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 Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder why you pick the example (of not eating animals because it will hurt).
Empathy is not always 'nice', scam artists use empathy to trick people out of possessions for instance.
Being aware that killing and eating something might hurt that thing, and caring about it, does not require sophisticated empathy skills. Attributing pain states to things other than oneself, is a very rudimentary empathy skill that many children with AS would easily conquer before age 5.
Empathy is primarily an ability to 'know the mind' of someone else, and impairment in empathy is not the same as being selfish and uncaring.
Whether one is nasty or nice, caring or selfish is a completely different issue. |
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bicentennialman
Sea Gull
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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This is one of the things I'm most curious about regarding AS too. When I first started learning about Asperger's, there were some things about it that seemed to fit me really well and others to a lesser degree. The "lack of empathy" criterion was the one that most made me think I must not be an aspie.
If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy. If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times during school when other people were misbehaving, and if the teacher scolded them, I felt like they were scolding me. When a professional singer steps up to a microphone to sing the national anthem on TV, I am nervous for them.
On the plus side, there have been times when I have been able to tell when someone needs some time by themselves or a quiet talk with a close friend, and so I excuse myself from the room. My mother said that she appreciated that I picked up on that once with one of her friends who was going through a tough time.
It turns out that I have been diagnosed with Asperger's after all, so I think it certainly is possible that your daughter could be very empathic and still have AS. When I was young, I used to cry about fishing because I was killing worms, so I identify with having empathy for animals. : )
So, anyway, I'm really curious about whether the "lack of empathy" criterion is just something that is characteristic of most, but not all, aspies. Or-- is the criterion flawed or misinterpreted somehow?
I think it's possible that it is. Maybe it's not that aspies don't have empathy-- maybe we just have difficulty showing it. Kind of like sense of humor. I have a pretty dry sense of humor and always have MST3K-style jokes and quips coming to mind, but if I'm in an uncomfortable social situation (which is most of them), I'm not likely to speak up with them. An outside observer might conclude that I don't have a sense of humor. |
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Mysty
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2008
Age: 43
Posts: 1999
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I think there are different things that are called empathy. Related or somewhat alike, but not the same. And I think these conversations always get confusing because people are talking about different things with the same label. I don't think one definition is right and another wrong. One definition may be right in the sense of what the psychologists mean, but, that's only a situational correctness. But, so long as we have different meanings, the conversations will go around in circles. |
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Twitch
Deinonychus
Joined: Nov 07, 2005
Posts: 395
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Do some aspies have lots of empathy? My seven year old |
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| musicforanna wrote: | | I've been overly-sensitive most of my life. Heck, when I watched "The Little Mermaid" in theaters when I was 6 or 7, I went with my aunt and younger sister (both neurotypical), I cried something fierce when Ursela took Ariel's voice. That's one of many events I remember just like yesterday. |
That's me too. I'm a very very EXTREMELY sensitive person. Seeing people emotional does make me feel kind of funny but other than that I can feel for them. Especially if their cat dies or something else I can relate to as being really really sad.
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Eggman
das Freak'n Techno Viking!
Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Posts: 5381
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| is this the most common post? |
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emc2
Sea Gull
Joined: Sep 20, 2008
Age: 38
Posts: 236
Location: Queensland, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: |
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I interpret the empathy to mean lacking in Theory of Mind it is somehow linked to that.
I feel in my mid 30's now that I can really see the incongruence (mismatching) between my empathy for the other person and how I express it in terms of how I feel within myself, and then also I think when other people observe or interact with me. It is very frustrating.
Also sometimes my voice is inside my head at a normal or loud volume but will come out really soft. |
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hiddenfiles
Emu Egg
Joined: Oct 05, 2008
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, some of them. |
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Owendust
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Oct 01, 2008
Age: 31
Posts: 175
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:15 am Post subject: Re: Do some aspies have lots of empathy? My seven year old |
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| Twitch wrote: | | musicforanna wrote: | | I've been overly-sensitive most of my life. Heck, when I watched "The Little Mermaid" in theaters when I was 6 or 7, I went with my aunt and younger sister (both neurotypical), I cried something fierce when Ursela took Ariel's voice. That's one of many events I remember just like yesterday. |
That's me too. I'm a very very EXTREMELY sensitive person. Seeing people emotional does make me feel kind of funny but other than that I can feel for them. Especially if their cat dies or something else I can relate to as being really really sad. |
Same here. As a child, I had so much empathy for others that it literally hurt. I couldn't stand to think of situations where other people were in physical or emotional pain. |
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CockneyRebel
Mick Avory, Sensitive brown-eyed Sweet Pea
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 87137
Location: In a quiet and peaceful garden, where gentle Mick Avory-like Sweet Peas grow.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:06 am Post subject: |
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I feel that I have lots of empathy. I can tell if someone's in a bad mood, and it affects me as well. I can also feel for a lot of decent people, as well. I've also felt a lot of empathy for Austin Powers, when I went to see the original movie, on the silver screen, when he was in the night club, flashing the peace-sign with his hand, and a bunch of typical NTs were snubbing a Swinger who was having a very hard time, adjusting to life in the 90s. I was a real-life version of that little Swinger, back in 1997 even before that movie came out.
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countzarroff
Velociraptor
Joined: Sep 28, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 445
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Yes you can. Some aspies have been reminded their whole lives to show compassion for others and naturally do so, like myself. |
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PhR33kY
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 14, 2008
Age: 174
Posts: 917
Location: Philidelphia, PA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Yes. I've been told that I am abnormally empathetic, but I have AS none the less. It is definatly possible to have AS and be capable of empathy. If you really want to be sure, consider having your daughter tested.
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ToughDiamond
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2008
Age: 60
Posts: 4751
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| CockneyRebel wrote: | | I feel that I have lots of empathy. I can tell if someone's in a bad mood, and it affects me as well. I can also feel for a lot of decent people, as well. I've also felt a lot of empathy for Austin Powers, when I went to see the original movie, on the silver screen, when he was in the night club, flashing the peace-sign with his hand, and a bunch of typical NTs were snubbing a Swinger who was having a very hard time, adjusting to life in the 90s. I was a real-life version of that little Swinger, back in 1997 even before that movie came out. |
Strange - I hate Austin Powers for exacty the same reason - he reminds me of the young teenager I used to be in the late 1960s, when I was making a mess of socialising by becoming a caricature of the current fashion. Even the glasses and the inane turn of phrase. So all I ever want to do is kick him for reminding me of the most embarrassing time of my life.
But I agree that AS and empathy aren't mutally exclusive attributes. It's like blaming a deaf person for not helping when somebody behind them screams "help!" instead of standing in front of them and signing it. Nor do I see much evidence of NTs having any moral high ground on empathy - else harmless Aspies wouldn't get so readily excluded just for being different. The whole economic system of the developed world is driven by personal greed and selfishness, and the nice guy always finishes last thanks to NT ground rules. |
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Mysty
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2008
Age: 43
Posts: 1999
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Most of the posts here are loosing site of the question in the original post.
The original poster is asking about specific traits her daugher has, and if aspies have those traits. She used empathy to label them, but she also shows what specifically she means.
And I think, if we start with the working premise that we are talking about what the original poster is talking about, and for now calling that empathy, then, yes, aspies have empathy.
Whether or not aspies have empathy by some other definition of empathy is frankly irrelevant to her question. Other than perhaps explaining the discrepency between the two pictures of aspies generally having empathy, and aspies not having empathy. (Not that it's as simple as having or not, by whichever definition.) |
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ToughDiamond
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2008
Age: 60
Posts: 4751
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I do that sometimes 
| Quote: | | Can you have Asperger's syndrome and still be in tune to emotion and highly empathetic? |
Yes I believe you can, if the emotions are communicated to you clearly enough, on your own terms. Otherwise it's easy to goof. We do have hearts, and we do learn. |
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Jellybean
Pokémon trainer
Joined: Apr 21, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 2827
Location: Bedford UK
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: |
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I have to say that my opinion is that girls who have AS (not so sure about boys) are generally over empathetic, but in a different way that is considered 'normal'. As with your kid, I would cry about eating meat because I hated the thought that it was once a living creature. I also had extreme empathy for people who were starving in Africa and used to get really worked up about it. On the other hand, if I hurt or upset someone in a way that most people would know not to do, I felt nothing. I guess it just varies.
PS, I'm now vegetarian (pointless fact of the week #1)
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I have ASC, ADHD, OCD, Tourette syndrome, dyspraxia and depression all diagnosed. I'm in there somewhere! |
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