Your views on capital punishment? - Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

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Your views on capital punishment?

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Capital punishment?

I'm for capital punishment, and I'm from a country where it's used

28%

[ 15 ]

I'm for capital punishment, and I'm from a country where it's not used

[ 3 ]

I'm against capital punishment, and I'm from a country where it's used

28%

[ 15 ]

I'm against capital punishment, and I'm from a country where it's not used

28%

[ 15 ]

Not sure / don't care

[ 4 ]

Total Votes : 52

slowmutant
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject:

Quote:

You acknowlege that very kid is not wanted? That every act of sex is not wanted, pills and condoms are not fool-proof, and every pregnancy is not safe?

Again, you put words in my mouth.

Chibi_Neko
Want a Cookie
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject:

slowmutant wrote:

Quote:

You acknowlege that very kid is not wanted? That every act of sex is not wanted, pills and condoms are not fool-proof, and every pregnancy is not safe?

Again, you put words in my mouth.

But you said that you so not claim that these things represent reality, I am asking what are you trying to say. Do you deny what I quoted? Do you agree? So far you have not done either. That is what I am asking.
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slowmutant
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject:

I will clarify my position: Abortion is sometimes the preferable option, but this is not to say that it is the default option. If the situation is not extreme, if the circumstances are not truly extenuating, abortion should not default over other, less extreme options. If there is a chance that the unborn chid's life can be feasibly spared, then it should be spared. Curing the disease by killing the patient is too extreme to become the standard.

Chibi_Neko
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject:

slowmutant wrote:

I will clarify my position:

Abortion is sometimes the preferable option, but this is not to say that it is the default option. If the situation is not extreme, if the circumstances are not truly extenuating, abortion should not default over other, less extreme options. If there is a chance that the unborn chid's life can be feasibly spared, then it should be spared. Curing the disease by killing the patient is too extreme to become the standard.

That's all I wanted to know. That wasn't so hard now was it?
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slowmutant
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject:

To solve the problem of your dog piddling on the carpet, you could kill the dog to ensure it would not happen again. But that is an extreme solution. A less-extreme but more involved solution would be to learn how discipline the dog, to merely teach it not to pee on the carpet. Killing the dog would ensure no more carpet-peeing, but it would also remove the source of the dog-owner's affection and enjoyment.

slowmutant
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject:

Chibi_Neko wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

That's all I wanted to know. That wasn't so hard now was it?

Not really.

crackedpleasures
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject:

slowmutant wrote:

Quote:

you ever thought of the fact that abortion actually can save lives? Or do you think a young girl who was raped or had an accident with a ripped condom will have anything left of a pleasant life when she has to give birth to an unwanted child?? I dont see any moral problem with abortion, while capital punishment IMO is barbaric.

Women delight in murder if they can find some biological excuse within themselves. Mad

Again it comes down to defining abortion as murder or not. You say it is, I do not consider it murder because I consider an unborn no developped life. As long as we disagree on when life begins, we will always disagree on abortion as well so I dont feel like continueing a debate where we will not convince each other anyway.

slowmutant wrote:

Quote:

Show me even a single woman who 'delights' in having an abortion.

"Modern women" trumpet the right to abort, celebrate the idea of destroying life. What they could be doing is taking earlier responsibility with their bodies. If it's al about reproductive control, abstinence is ultimate reproductive control. Abstinence forgoes the necessity of abortion. If you don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex. It's that simple. UNplanned pregnancies are, for the most part, avoidable. I refuse to let someone tell me that all unplanned pregnancy is the aftereffect of rape.

Yes, lets ban a simple form of joy out of our lives just to avoid an abortion, lets forget about sex to give in to the religious fanatics and their pro life campaigns.
What about a couple who really love each other, see sex as an expression of love, but wish to remain childless? Should they just refrain from sex for life?

And again, no contraceptives are 100% safe unless you stick to non vaginal sex only but the average person rejecting abortion for religious reasons will consider anal or oral sex equally sinful.

slowmutant wrote:

Fraya wrote:

Because of evolutionary necessity the desire for sex is one of the strongest drives of the human psyche. It is easily capable of shutting down or obscuring all rational thought.

Abstinence is great in theory but there are few actual human beings with the mental fortitude to successfully practice it without some form of trauma to make sexual relations abhorrent to them (mental abuse from religious extremism or prior sexual assault or abuse are the most common traits of people who successfully practice abstinence).

It can be done, and it is preferable to needing to terminate a pregnancy, is it not? And there's always contraception. Contraception isn't 100% effective like abstinence is, but it's better than nothing.

So basically people must either refrain from sex or just carry a child if their contraceptive failed, purely to not terminate a life that has not even begun yet? No, I happily would encourage my girlfriend to abort the day that our contraceptive would fail. I would maybe agree that abortion is not meant to exist for those who have frequent unprotected sex, but to forbid abortion for those who were just unlucky but did take responsability is religious madness in my opinion. And all respect for those religious values if you project them on your own life, a woman who believes abortion is sin can always choose to not abort, she should however never force her own values upon other women. We live in a secular society, thus please keep your religious values to yourself rather than forcing them upon others.

Jesus (sorry for the unwanted pun), you would enforce a christian theocracy and replace common sense by biblical laws?? If you not advocate theocracy I cannot understand how you can defend forcing religious values upon those who may not even share your religious views. And to think women enter the abortion room full of joy and pleasure, is insane. Sorry.
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Fraya
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject:

The religious fanatics are afraid that if there is no penalty involved in abortion it would become preferable over the use of contraceptives (I forgot to take my pill oh well Ill just get it aborted if I get pregnant). The problem with that idea though is that there is risk involved. More than 1 or 2 abortions starts exponentially increasing the chance that you will never be capable of having a child. Do you really think women delight in going to a doctors office to have an abortion knowing that may be the last time they will ever be able to get pregnant? That's not even considering the amount of guilt involved. Unless you've had one yourself your not really qualified to comment on how you feel about it much less anyone else. _________________ One pill makes you larger And one pill makes you small And the ones that mother gives you Don't do anything at all ----------- "White Rabbit" - Jefferson Airplane

crackedpleasures
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject:

Add to that the costs of the abortion, the medical side effects, and the stigma towards the friends and family when having an abortion. No sane woman will just have casual sex without protection and see abortion as the solution. The stigma, costs and medical side effects are too unpleasant for that. Abortion is more of a last resort. Those who think women would just shag daily thinking "If it goes wrong I will abort" live in a fantasy world. The stigma connected to abortion alone would make sure this does not work that way. _________________ You did it again, yes, you in the mirror You put your faith in a cruel world... All my dead friends come to haunt, harm and hinder Never letting go, here to drag me down to hell (London After Midnight)

DentArthurDent
Evolve Ye Christians & Dozers
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject:

An aborted foetus does not have feelings, does not miss the life it never had. Women do not skip joyfully to the abortion clinic every time they get pregnant; the vast majority take great care not to have unwanted pregnancies, viable life does not begin at conception; it begins when the baby is able to support its vital functions independent of the mother. God is just a belief. Slowmutant stop with the logical fallacies By the way capital punishment is WRONG _________________ "I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday" Douglas Adams "Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx

AutisticMalcontent
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject:

I have a mixed view on capital punishment. There is a part of me that favors it, but a part of me that doesn't. I favor capital punishment because it does punish the individual who has commited countless atrocities or a crime that was so undeniably brutal that it shocks the conscious just to think about it. One thing is certain, they won't be commiting crimes anymore, they will meet their maker. I think this punishment should be reserved for the most outrageous and brutal cases of murder, including those that involve rape or torture before the initial homicide is commited. In this sense, I support capital punishment. However, I know that is a FACT that capital punishment does not act as a deterrant for other criminals. And why should it? Criminals don't care about the end consequences of their actions, they willingly choose to commit the offense without any foresight of the consequences that might occur because of their choice. If a man has commited crimes before, what makes you think he won't do it again. Perhaps they might show some reluctance the first time they do it, but after that, they don't care. Even the possibility of death doesn't bother them, because they feel they have nothing to lose. I also think one form of execution shouldn't be used, and that is the electric chair, which clearly violates the 8th Ammendment banning "cruel and unusual punishment". It is cruel and unusual execution when you electrocute an individual to the point of death. I've seen pictures of a man executed in the electric chair post mordum after being executed by the electric chair. His face was purple and the pressure of the voltage of the electric shock made one of nostrils bleed a steady stream of blood. It was pretty, and it certainly was cruel. However, I do approve of lethal injection, it is much more humane. However, I think that the criminal needs to be sedated into a state of unconsciousness before he is injected with the lethal dosage. He will meet his maker soon enough, that is worse punishment than his manner of execution. Finally, I think in terms of psychological torture, it is worse keeping a man in life imprisonment than executing him. He knows he will rot in his cell and that must be torture in itself. However, there is always the chance of parole and having to pay tax dollars to keep him in prison must get pretty expensive. But I still support capital punishment.

history_of_psychiatry
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject:

"Your views on capital punishment" I definately believe the capital should be punished! _________________ X

LKL
Phoenix
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject:

slowmutant wrote:

Is that another excuse to abort? People keep telling me that women do not secretly delight in having abortions, but the evidence is starting to pile up. Married couples are not powerless to avoid unplanned pregnancy, if that's what you're suggesting.

Married couples are exactly as powerful or powerless in preventing pregnancy as any other couple. You suggested that abstinance was the answer to prevent unwanted pregnancies, and I want to know if you think that married couples should abstain as well. Even on birth control, accidents happen. Heck, even guys who've been snipped can get someone pregnant - it's just that the odds are significantly lower.

Quote:

To solve the problem of your dog piddling on the carpet, you could kill the dog to ensure it would not happen again. But that is an extreme solution. A less-extreme but more involved solution would be to learn how discipline the dog, to merely teach it not to pee on the carpet. Killing the dog would ensure no more carpet-peeing, but it would also remove the source of the dog-owner's affection and enjoyment.

Having your entire body used as life support for a non-sentient zef is considerably more significant than having your dog piddle on the carpet. Do you even realize the misogyny in that statement? If the dog = the zef, the carpet = a woman's body. Good to know where you stand - pun intended.

Trying to ignore that part of things, this is what we have:
zef=non-sentient & therefore incapable of guilt or innocence.
dog=sentient, somewhat sapient, and guilty of minor property damage.
convict=sapient and probably guilty of major crime.

Non-sentient. Sentient. Sapient. It is just as important to consider those issues as it is to consider degrees of guilt or crime.