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Dark_Red_Beloved
Toucan
Toucan


Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Airborne wrote:
Juggernaut wrote:
thats too bad. i suppose if you are still in high school that makes sense, because i remember when i was in high school, kids were pretty cruel to other kids they could pick on---such as the special ed kids. and me too, even though they didn't even know i was autistic, and i wasn't in special ed. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if they had known, because they would have a label to put on my awkwardness.

I just turned 15 and Im a Sophomore in highschool so yeah. I really dont get made fun of anymore (Much bigger and daring than the cowards that anger me most) but this facebook group is never the less reminding me of the frustration and the anger that bully results in.


Same here. I don't get direct bullying anymore either but it still hurts.
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Juggernaut
Phoenix
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Age: 28
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dark_Red_Beloved wrote:


Same here. I don't get direct bullying anymore either but it still hurts.


The subtle stuff is in a sense worse, because you can't go to someone and say, "so and so did so and so to me". It hurts to get shunned because you can't go to a teacher or parent and say, "no on sits with me at lunch, tell them to be kind, tell them to treat me like a friend or at least an aquaintance"

Not that there were not kind people at school. I was just so shy, and had enough bad experiences, that I learned to be terrified of even the nicest people.
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Dark_Red_Beloved
Toucan
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Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Juggernaut wrote:
Dark_Red_Beloved wrote:


Same here. I don't get direct bullying anymore either but it still hurts.


The subtle stuff is in a sense worse, because you can't go to someone and say, "so and so did so and so to me". It hurts to get shunned because you can't go to a teacher or parent and say, "no on sits with me at lunch, tell them to be kind, tell them to treat me like a friend or at least an aquaintance"

Not that there were not kind people at school. I was just so shy, and had enough bad experiences, that I learned to be terrified of even the nicest people.


True,subtle stuff isn't fun either. I won't argue about what's worse because a hurt is still a hurt no matter what kind or degree. I guess, after having a lot of crap happen to me over the years it helps to be able to comiserate with other people who've gone through some of the same challenges...

if that makes sense.
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Juggernaut
Phoenix
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, that does make sense. well, i guess every hurt is different, and like you said, hurt is hurt. you can't necessarily compare them. in one sense, the overt bullying CAN be much worse, because it can be more intense. On the other hand the subtle stuff CAN be worse as well. NO situation is the same for any two people at any two times. There are so many different things to factor in, including your method of coping, your history, the individual people hurting you, the individual people helping you, etc.

This is basically the theme of a poem I wrote, which I just posted today, entitled, 'a million different hells': http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp1856163.html&highlight=#1856163
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Airborne
Deinonychus
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Juggernaut wrote:
yes, that does make sense. well, i guess every hurt is different, and like you said, hurt is hurt. you can't necessarily compare them. in one sense, the overt bullying CAN be much worse, because it can be more intense. On the other hand the subtle stuff CAN be worse as well. NO situation is the same for any two people at any two times. There are so many different things to factor in, including your method of coping, your history, the individual people hurting you, the individual people helping you, etc.

This is basically the theme of a poem I wrote, which I just posted today, entitled, 'a million different hells': http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp1856163.html&highlight=#1856163

Wow I really like that poem, really Idk I just like the feel it gives off. Also I have many friends, most dont know that I have aspergers and I dont share any of my interests with them because sometimes its hard to understand, when I was in 4th grade kids didnt want to be friends with me because I was quote "to smart" and they couldn't keep up, several parents told my mother about this, at the time I didn't know how to take it and was somewhat unemotional about it (I really had no feel for emotions for a while). Sometimes kids bully you based on you being smarter/better read and are either jealous, confused or a combination of both, when with friends I have to "dumb down" my vocab, and explanations to complex question in class and by curious friends or else I would be like that weird kid that nobody likes and acts like a serial killer (lol) basically imitating NT's is how I fit in, Its not with out flaws however, trial and error is how I have become somewhat non-socially retarded in high school to this day.
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Dark_Red_Beloved
Toucan
Toucan


Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 266
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Juggernaut...

You write beautifully.

As you say, there may not be a consistant rhyme scheme,but that doesn't take away from it--That I leave to you,the artist, to design.
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Juggernaut
Phoenix
Phoenix


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just posted the first discussion topic on the group. Here it is:

Autism, Rape, Race, Solutions

This group claims to be just making people aware, not being hateful towards a group because some in that group are statistically more likely to commit certain acts. In the following paragraph, I copied and pasted the group description, and replaced the word 'autistic' with 'black'. Please note that this is not my opinion of black people, nor am I claiming the creators of this group to be racist. My purpose is to bring up objections to your claim; not to say anything hurtful or ignorant. If what you claim is true, it should be able to stand on its own against questions about it's truth. Please do not eject me from the group for questioning your beliefs. Regardless of whether you agree with them, you can NOT claim that my challenges are not legitimate. Therefore, I would view being kicked out or not responded to as a concession that you are unable to answer my objections

So imagine a group that had the following as it's description:

"Contrarary[sic] to what Black supremesy [sic] groups claim, WE DO NOT HATE BLACK PEOPLE! Our only goal is to inform girls and women that a percentage, not most, of Black people are more likely to be rapists. It is the same as any other disorder, MOST BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT DANGROUS![sic] We only want young women to be aware of the danger of being around Black people. We do not approve of hate toward Black people; we do not want violence against Black people, only that girls pass them by and are aware of the potential danger."

[by the way, [sic] means original spelling error, in case you are unaware]

If there was a facebook group which said this about blacks, I am sure it would be shut down quickly. What is the difference between the above statement and the one on the groups description? Yes, autism is a condition which effects behavior, while being black or white or hispanic, or whatever, is facial features and skin color;

But let me ask you this: what studies do you have the show a link between autism and rape? You put this group under the category of science. Therefore, you need statistical backing of your claims. I can give you numerous studies showing a higher percentage of black males perpetrating rape than white males. HOWEVER, I would NEVER think of creating a group or video, warning white females to stay away from black males, then say, "I'm not advocating hate, I'm just warning you for your safety".

When I googled the word autism and rape, I saw all SORTS of articles and sites labelled "autistic rape VICTIMS" but no articles labeled "autistic RAPISTS". And guess what, most of those autistic rape vicims were FEMALE!!! I am sure there have been autistic males who have raped NT girls. But there have also been black guys that have raped white girls---as well as white guys that have raped black girls, such as Thomas Jefferson.

I am NOT, like you mentioned in this group, claiming that autistic people are superior, or a seperate race or anything of the sort. That would be more ridiculous than a white or black supremacist claiming their race to be superior. There are idiotic autistic people, who say such things in ignorance, just as there are idiotic Neurotypical people, like the creators of this group, who claim the converse (that autistics, because of their alleged propensity towards rape).

I see the creators of this group as being guilty of the very THING that you claim to be against---hatred and objectifying human beings. If you want to speak of rape as an example of objectifying a human being, is not this group doing the same thing? Is this group not then responsible for the "verbal-rape" of autistic people, by claiming autistic people, unlike the rest of the 'normal', 'real', 'human beings', are not capable of viewing a girl as a 'normal', 'real', 'human being'? What do you think you are doing to autistic people by claiming, not that they have a certain mental challenge (ALL human beings have 'mental challenges', it comes with the territory of being human) but that they are not capable of viewing others as human, and thus, having seperated themselves from humanity, are no longer worthy of status as humans themselves? You are generalizing specific cases in a way that degrades the very essence of humanity from other humans (autistic humans), the very thing you claim has been done against you (the degredation of your humanity through physical rape).

I assume 'Alexandra' is the rape victim, since she is the creator of this group; correct me if I am wrong. So let me first say, I would NEVER EVER say anything like the following (in case you accuse me of this): "because of what she said, Alexandra deserved to be raped". Never ever. What happened to you was a crime and a tragedy. HOWEVER: Alexandra: if your character is such that after a traumatic and tragic event, would USE that cruel tragedy to attack others who were not involved in this crime, you have DESTROYED the very message you claim to be trying to send. I have experienced pain from other people as well (which I will not here go into). But I would NEVER wish, after having been victimized, to create more victims. I would NEVER want to wish the pain I have experienced onto other people. I would not even want that pain on the person who perpetrated such a crime. Yes it is true all want justice against those who have commited an injustice, to make things right.

However: if your character is of the nature to respond to a hurt in your heart by projecting that hurt onto others, pushing that hurt onto others by blaming THEM, for something they did NOT do to you, then you have no sympathy from me for your rape; rather, you have my sympathy, but it is far outweighed by my pity for you for your response to it. I pity you MORE for your character than for the action perpetrated against you. If you had a nail in your flesh, and then removed it and shoved it into the flesh of another, why should I pity you for having it in the first place, if you have taken that crime against YOU and done the SAME THING against others? Not that you have went and raped autistic people, but you have shoved glass in their face because you have it in yours. Because you do not want to hurt.

I understand your desire not to hurt. I wish I could fix that hurt. However, you will never deal with that hurt until you actually begin to DEAL with it. To just push it onto people who do not deserve such judgement is NOT dealing with it....it is just pushing the beast away----and it is going to keep coming back at you until you kill it. You cannot kill an entire group of people. I do not think you WANT to kill autistic people, do not misread me any more than you want others to not misread you. But in a sense, you DO desire it. You want people to be 'cured' so that the hurt that has been committed against you has been resolved. You want autistic people to be avoided, you claim for the sake of other girls, but in your heart, you know that it is for the sake of vindication, for justice against 'that autistic person who is liable to rape innocent girls'. I know you do not hate every autistic person. But whether that is what is in your heart, it is what you are expressing. And therefore, I believe that although you do not believe your heart to be full of hate, ESPECIALLY, since you feel that you are being motivated by compassion, the desire to not see other girls raped, if you look deep within yourself, one more layer down, even past that deep dark layer that seems to be the dirt floor of your feelings, I believe you will see a bedrock of hate, which has erupted, even from that soil attempting to be compassionate.

The demon that attacks you will not be killed by eliminating autism, because that demon is not in autism. It is within YOU, in your own heart, as it is also in your attacker, within his heart. If you place that demon upon a manner of thinking which autistic people employ, you will be attacking a demon in front of you, having no idea that the real threat is the demon behind you in the shadows, sticking its knife in your back, again and again, as you do battle with the false image projected in front of you.

The individual who raped you committed an EVIL act. And he made a choice to do so. While you may feel better by identifying that evil with autistic traits, what are you really doing? You are creating an EXCUSE for your attacker, by saying he did not KNOW BETTER since he was autistic. Call evil evil. An evil choice by an individual who chose to commit an evil act. I can GUARANTEE you that unless he was an extremely low functioning individual, he was not UNAWARE that what he was doing was wrong. But if he WAS unaware, why are you so angry?

Please do not delete this or eject me, but rather respond to it, becasue I honestly want to know your take on what I have to say. I am not here to judge or condemn, and am not angry at all. I just want to better understand what motivates my fellow human beings.







I followed this up with a post on the group wall that said:

I just posted a topic on the discussion board. I'm interested in what you all think. Despite the claims of this group to be under the common interest of science, the only science I have heard anyone express is in opposition to the claims of this group. If you call it science, base your arguments on science. If you call it philosophy, base it on philosophy. If you call it religion, base it on religion, etc.

All I have heard is the claim of a girl to have been raped by an autistic individual, and conjecture that since autistic people have a hard time reading emotion, that they will therefore rape girls because they don't understand that when they say no they mean no. Not ANY data that supports this. I would argue that autistic people, BECAUSE of their inability to read emotion, are MORE likely to be raped than to rape, for one, because MANY autistic people are female, and because autistics are often so unsure of themselves in social situations that they would not ATTEMPT sexual intercourse without the OK of their partner...high functioning autistic people are MUCH more likely to by shy than aggressive, due to this. Therefore, any claim you make that autistics are more likely to be rapist can be balanced out by the majority of autistics who would be MUCH less likely to commit rape. If autistics commit rape at a higher rate than neurotypicals, then

PLEASE

PROVIDE

A

LINK

TO

A SCIEEEEENTTTIFFFIC

ARTICLE

WHICH

STATES

THIS.

Until you do, why would you put this group under the category of science?
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Airborne
Deinonychus
Deinonychus


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted under the discussion board. LOL I just read this stupid imbecilic moron named John Best's comment, this guy thinks aspergers isnt genetic and is brain damage! LOL actually I have a well developed frontal lobe (more so than most) which in fact is where judgment is controlled which not only throws away tanja's "auties are rapist" theory but it also contradicts john bests dunce comments, just killed two birds with one stone! Its funny how the intellectually less superior cant even figure out how stupid they are!
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westernwild
Deinonychus
Deinonychus


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 325
Location: The wild, wild West

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dark_Red_Beloved wrote:
ShadesOfMe wrote:
Has this woman been raped by an autie? is this why she is doing this???


Yes, she has been raped. I've written to her and she's written back a few times. She seems to be more of an angry,very hurt person with a lot misinformation than a deliberately hateful person.


Look, as a woman, I can certainly understand her rape trauma and have no doubt as to how seriously that has to have affected her. But what she needs to do is to stay in some serious therapy and not take it out on every single other person with ASD by spreading hateful rigid stereotypes, lies and misinformation. When are people gonna understand, I mean really understand, that the actions of one member of a group cannot be transferred to the ENTIRE group membership?

I was robbed at gunpoint by a young black male several years ago. He came very, very close to pulling the trigger a couple of times when he had the cold muzzle of the gun jammed in my stomach and then my neck. I had PTSD for awhile after that, obviously. Would that have given me the right to then take it out on ALL black men, and to spread hateful rigid sterotypes, lies and misinformation about ALL black men? HELL NO. Far from it. Although I was amazed and disgusted at all the racists who seemed to come out of the woodwork afterwards, telling me that "now you know the truth about THEM." Uh, say what? No, I know the truth about ONE member of the group. I then asked if one white person was an as*hole or thief or rapist or murderer (and there are far more than one of each, of course) does that mean then that ALL of us are the same? That usually rendered them speechless, lol.
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Life is not about waiting out storms, but learning to dance in the rain-Anonymous
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KingdomOfRats
autism & ID activist
Phoenix


Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Age: 30
Posts: 5313
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Airborne wrote:
I posted under the discussion board. LOL I just read this stupid imbecilic moron named John Best's comment, this guy thinks aspergers isnt genetic and is brain damage! LOL actually I have a well developed frontal lobe (more so than most) which in fact is where judgment is controlled which not only throws away tanja's "auties are rapist" theory but it also contradicts john bests dunce comments, just killed two birds with one stone! Its funny how the intellectually less superior cant even figure out how stupid they are!

dont listen to anything john best says,his views arent troll bait as he does believe in what he says-usually delusional,he's infamous to the autism community for all the wrong reasons.


the brain damage thing was what doctors used to assume autism was [think AS may have been too unknown to have escaped it],as am was refused diagnosis at two [severe autism] based on scans showing no brain damage.
when certain parts of the brain are knocked or damaged [it doesnt have to show up on scans] it can make someone act autistic-like,but it's brain damage-not ASD,different things,John needs to update his autism for dummies book as it seems to be stuck in the eighties/early nineties.
_________________
>severely autistic.
>>the residential autist; http://theresidentialautist.blogspot.co.uk
blogging from the view of an ex institutionalised autism/ID activist now in community care.
>>>help to keep bullying off our community,report it!
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westernwild
Deinonychus
Deinonychus


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 325
Location: The wild, wild West

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhR33kY wrote:
Ok, so here is her reasoning boiled down:

Her rapist was autistic; therefore, all autistics are rapists.

A logical stretch, to say the least.


Sounds like she'd fit right in with the women of that hateful hate group FAAAS. And they refuse to acknowledge that there are women ASD.
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Juggernaut
Phoenix
Phoenix


Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Age: 28
Posts: 748

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westernwild wrote:

Look, as a woman, I can certainly understand her rape trauma and have no doubt as to how seriously that has to have affected her. But what she needs to do is to stay in some serious therapy and not take it out on every single other person with ASD by spreading hateful rigid stereotypes, lies and misinformation. When are people gonna understand, I mean really understand, that the actions of one member of a group cannot be transferred to the ENTIRE group membership?

I was robbed at gunpoint by a young black male several years ago. He came very, very close to pulling the trigger a couple of times when he had the cold muzzle of the gun jammed in my stomach and then my neck. I had PTSD for awhile after that, obviously. Would that have given me the right to then take it out on ALL black men, and to spread hateful rigid sterotypes, lies and misinformation about ALL black men? HELL NO. Far from it. Although I was amazed and disgusted at all the racists who seemed to come out of the woodwork afterwards, telling me that "now you know the truth about THEM." Uh, say what? No, I know the truth about ONE member of the group. I then asked if one white person was an as*hole or thief or rapist or murderer (and there are far more than one of each, of course) does that mean then that ALL of us are the same? That usually rendered them speechless, lol.


I posted a discussion topic on the group which made a similar point to this. Thanks for the more personal perspective though
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Juggernaut
Phoenix
Phoenix


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Age: 28
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so now I've put a few wall quotes up, done for the night. But I think I basically refuted their Bullshit.
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Dark_Red_Beloved
Toucan
Toucan


Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westernwild wrote:
Dark_Red_Beloved wrote:
ShadesOfMe wrote:
Has this woman been raped by an autie? is this why she is doing this???


Yes, she has been raped. I've written to her and she's written back a few times. She seems to be more of an angry,very hurt person with a lot misinformation than a deliberately hateful person.


Look, as a woman, I can certainly understand her rape trauma and have no doubt as to how seriously that has to have affected her. But what she needs to do is to stay in some serious therapy and not take it out on every single other person with ASD by spreading hateful rigid stereotypes, lies and misinformation. When are people gonna understand, I mean really understand, that the actions of one member of a group cannot be transferred to the ENTIRE group membership?

I was robbed at gunpoint by a young black male several years ago. He came very, very close to pulling the trigger a couple of times when he had the cold muzzle of the gun jammed in my stomach and then my neck. I had PTSD for awhile after that, obviously. Would that have given me the right to then take it out on ALL black men, and to spread hateful rigid sterotypes, lies and misinformation about ALL black men? HELL NO. Far from it. Although I was amazed and disgusted at all the racists who seemed to come out of the woodwork afterwards, telling me that "now you know the truth about THEM." Uh, say what? No, I know the truth about ONE member of the group. I then asked if one white person was an as*hole or thief or rapist or murderer (and there are far more than one of each, of course) does that mean then that ALL of us are the same? That usually rendered them speechless, lol.


look back to my only post on page 4
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Phoenix


Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 6931

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Face Book Anti-Autistic HATE SITE Reply with quote

Warsie wrote:
Callista wrote:
HarryWilliams wrote:

The grammar in that pic is badly mangled. It looks like they're implying that neither the girl or the blender are objects. They should've said, "she is no more than an object like a blender" or "she is no less an object than a blender".

[/derail]
That bugged you too, huh?


the b***h is German......


Even in german, it means "They don't consider her, or a blender, objects."!
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