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GreatCeleryStalk
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 19, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 492
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 Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Grace09 wrote: |
It's interesting, someone said it will be in the next DSM? Can a psychologist diagnose AS or HFA or does it need to be a psychiatrist? I know it's not a mental illness but I read somewhere it needs to be evaluated from a psychiatric history? |
Psychologists (e.g. PhD or PsyD holders) can diagnose AS, HFA, LFA, NVLD, and a myriad number of other mental health conditions. The major practical difference (because there are a ton of philosophical ones) is that psychiatrists are medical doctors and can prescribe. Many psychiatrists refer to a psychologist for diagnosis.
The only reason I am cautious about NLD is that it generally is not diagnosed unless there's a record of brain damage in the past. Not everybody with AS is good with math, either, but it's somewhat common.
The IQ test indicating a disparity between PIQ/VIQ could be indicative of either AS or NVLD. HFA is excluded as a diagnosis (per DSM-IV-TR) if there is not a delay in language acquisition/speech.
The object obsession is indicative of AS more than NLD. IIRC NLD and obsessions are not very common.
The psychologist who met with your son should have also asked questions when doing the client history/qualitative part of the evaluation. I find it very odd that the psychologist did not ask you, or the child's father, about his mannerisms, patterns of interaction, or host of other issues.
NVLD may indeed be in the next DSM, but I don't know for certain. I think it has become notable and distinct enough from AS/HFA that it will be included. I don't know that it will be classified as an ASD, though. |
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AlienVisitor
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Sep 17, 2009
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:43 am Post subject: |
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I was not especially glad to find out about my NLD-like neurological problems, permanent and irreversible (it seems so far), a disability. I liked myself better as an eccentric rather than a disabled individual.
NLD information is very interesting but I have yet to find out why every aspect of my memory is troublesome.
I swear I'd love to have at least an average long-term memory. I don't know if things have gone worse or not, but I've come to realize the depth of the problem and have started noting down important stuff, things to do, ideas. I can remember so little of my life compared to people I know (and the thing is I encounter many gifted individuals with excellent memories, and I feel bad trying to explain that I'm just not like them), it can be very frustrating at times. It's not uncommon for people to think it's all BS and I'm claiming to have a poor memory to avoid dealing with my past lol. 
Ok, I'm planning to see a neurologist. I don't believe psychologists, psychiatrists could be of any help. I'm in need of concrete answers, I'm in need of hard science, to know what my brain looks like, what's wrong with it etc. I've got the DSM-IV already and have read enough psychology. |
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starygrrl
Deinonychus
Joined: Apr 13, 2009
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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A regular psychologist or psychiatrist should never diagnose NLD. NLD while it has behavioral aspects, should not be diagnosed on those aspects (if it is solely behavioral, its probably AS or another form of atypical autism. )
NLD should only be diagnosed by neurologists or neuropsychs. A BIG problem right now is Psychologists and psychiatrists are diagnosing many girls with NLD on behavioral symptoms, when its really the female manifestation of AS. |
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akwime1290
Hummingbird
Joined: Jun 14, 2009
Age: 18
Posts: 18
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| starygrrl wrote: |
NLD should only be diagnosed by neurologists or neuropsychs. A BIG problem right now is Psychologists and psychiatrists are diagnosing many girls with NLD on behavioral symptoms, when its really the female manifestation of AS. |
I was diagnosed with NLD about a year ago but for a long time and still now I feel that I have Aspergers. It is interesting that you write this because I wondering if this is the case with me and if I should get a second opinion especially after reading information on girls with Aspergers. |
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Grace09
Raven
Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| GreatCeleryStalk wrote: | | Grace09 wrote: |
It's interesting, someone said it will be in the next DSM? Can a psychologist diagnose AS or HFA or does it need to be a psychiatrist? I know it's not a mental illness but I read somewhere it needs to be evaluated from a psychiatric history? |
The IQ test indicating a disparity between PIQ/VIQ could be indicative of either AS or NVLD. HFA is excluded as a diagnosis (per DSM-IV-TR) if there is not a delay in language acquisition/speech.
The object obsession is indicative of AS more than NLD. IIRC NLD and obsessions are not very common.
The psychologist who met with your son should have also asked questions when doing the client history/qualitative part of the evaluation. I find it very odd that the psychologist did not ask you, or the child's father, about his mannerisms, patterns of interaction, or host of other issues.
NVLD may indeed be in the next DSM, but I don't know for certain. I think it has become notable and distinct enough from AS/HFA that it will be included. I don't know that it will be classified as an ASD, though. |
He did have a speech delay, he didn't speak until he was 4 years old. His dad, my husband, says it was because of ear infections which I think is a bit reaching because lots of toddlers have ear infections but they still talk. He was going on and on yesterday about some cable he wanted, cables are one of his obsessions. My 2 other kids were singing 'so what' by Pink. I don't know what will happen because he's 13 now and he just acts so different from other kids, he could care less about music and pop culture like most kids his age. As a result, he hasn't made any friends after 2 months at a new school.
The middle school did another evaluation about 2 weeks ago so who knows what the results will be from that. As far as the psychologist not asking about certain things, well she gave both parents a questionnaire and I saw it and it's kind of hard for the psychologist to look for things when the parents are saying he is just a regular kid and he has never had any troubles. He has been in special ed from the beginning, he has serious social problems. He has 2 friends, mom and dad, but his parents aren't going to admit that. The evaluation was only something they HAD to do for school placement. All they want to hear is there is nothing there. It's going to take a very observant psychologist to identify his problems I think.
His new school is demanding more of him so I am just hoping he can catch up as his parents want to mainstream him in 2 years. Maybe going into public school will be the best thing to happen to him. These private schools, in my opinion, haven't been very effective. I have read a lot of posts here and I'm starting to feel the public schools may have more experience with these things. Time will tell... |
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Luluchan531
Hummingbird
Joined: Mar 16, 2009
Age: 23
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| GreatCeleryStalk wrote: | | Luluchan531 wrote: | | @ Grace09: Actually yes. 80% of those with AS have symptoms of NLD so it's entirely possible that your son could have both. |
It's more likely that 80% of NLD diagnoses have AS as a comorbid. NLD generally requires some form of right hemisphere brain damage/white matter malformation in order for diagnosis to occur. The diagnostic criteria for the two disorders are very similar and they share some major traits, but are very, very different.
An example:
My visual-spatial memory is absolutely rubbish (I have NLD). My friend with AS has an excellent visual-spatial memory. He rarely gets lost, excellent sense of direction, etc. I can get lost in classroom or a parking lot very easily.
I can generally manage better/more appropriate eye contact than my friend with AS, although our impairment with non-verbal behavior is similar; I sometimes have a little more social intuition than he does. |
According to Rourke, it doesn't go the other way around:
" Many students of AS and NLD seem to think that they are one and the same. Of course, they are not. Reflections on the relevant sections above and the NLD and Neurological Disease section will show this assertion of identity to be absurd.
Perhaps a little example from Aristotle’s Logic will be of assistance within this context. Consider the following non-sequitur:
All apples are fruit.
Therefore, all fruit are apples.
Applied to the current considerations:
All persons with AS exhibit NLD.
Therefore, all persons with NLD have AS.
I rest my case."
http://www.nld-bprourke.ca/BPRA41.html
About 80% of people with AS have NLD but I don't know the exact co-morbidy between NLD and AS.
BTW I found (on the same page) that those with HFA can't have NLD...again according to Rourke. |
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Greentea
Goddess of Wisdom
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Age: 47
Posts: 5487
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Luluchan531 wrote: | | About 80% of people with AS have NLD |
That's impossible, since NLD causes severe impairment in the areas that Aspies are best known for, such as Maths, Science, etc. NLDers are strong in verbal/language areas, which is opposite to the AS stereotype.
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So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur. |
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IMForeman
Raven
Joined: Oct 05, 2009
Age: 27
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Greentea wrote: | | Luluchan531 wrote: | | About 80% of people with AS have NLD |
That's impossible, since NLD causes severe impairment in the areas that Aspies are best known for, such as Maths, Science, etc. NLDers are strong in verbal/language areas, which is opposite to the AS stereotype. |
Ah that's interesting. That's kinda like me. I thought aspies could be strong with verbal/language or mathematics.
PS. hmmm looking at the wikipedia of NLD, there's no mention of obsessive interests. |
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LostInSpace
The Librarian
Joined: Apr 17, 2007
Age: 25
Posts: 2520
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| IMForeman wrote: |
PS. hmmm looking at the wikipedia of NLD, there's no mention of obsessive interests. |
When I was dx'ed with NLD, they ruled out AS because I didn't have a single, long-term obsession (although I go through short-term obsessions). However, I've read multiple books by parents of kids with NLD, and the kids often have a really obvious special interest- and Byron Rourke actually wrote the introduction to one of these books, so I'm not really sure what to think.
Plus, even though my interests were short-lived, they were certainly unusual. For instance, when I was 14 and my family was going on a trip to Yellowstone National Park, I can remember copying out lists of country names and capitals to *bring with me* on the trip since I was currently obsessed with memorizing country capitals. Even though it only lasted a few weeks, you can't tell me that obsession (and many similar ones) was normal. Maybe NLD obsessions just aren't as consistently all-consuming as Aspie ones. When I am going through an obsessive period though, I will spent 14 hours a day if allowed just working on things related to the obsession. It's all I think about and it's all I want to talk about.
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