Does my 12 year old girl have psychological issues?

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earthmonkey
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06 Dec 2008, 3:36 am

Shivani wrote:
Ticker wrote:
It's possible to have seizures and have a negative EEG.

Yes, I have heard this, however her EEG results have gone from grossly abnormal to completely normal now so that is why I wondered.
Quote:
There are certain types of seizures (I forget what that type is called) that can cause hallucinations or confusion as to who someone is.

Actually the seizures that she experienced would sometimes result in her seeing things, scary people and such. When she saw them she would just be staring straight ahead not moving. She would also have the grand mal seizures as well when she wouldn't actually have any visions during that time. She did always experience an aura before every seizure where she would feel completely cold and would go very white. She denies that anything like this is happening now.


Quote:
Something else comes to mind... I've always thought myself what one person calls a schizophrenic another person may call a psychic.

This has occurred to me. When she didn't want to sleep in her room she slept in the spare room for a few nights but then something freaked her out in there and she told me she would not sleep in there because it was haunted!
But, we have lived in this house for 3 years and it is a new house and I am pretty sure the land is okay.

Another unusual thing;
Just last night she came running out into the lounge from the shower wet and towel around her, eyes wild. She said she could hear us out here screaming and calling her name and it sounded as if someone was trying to murder us! It was very freaky. We were just sitting around talking.

I think she is inclined to some paranoid thinking at times. She will sometimes say that everyone hates her and that the 'ghosts' or people she hears talking are out to get her.

I really don't think anyone has been giving her drugs. I know one can never be sure, but she is actually against anything like that and wouldn't like to take anything that she didn't trust anyway. It's hard enough getting her to take paracetamol if she has a headache she is so scared of what it might do to her!

I do feel I need to get her checked out, but where to start? Psychiatrists seem to be a no go, GP's are not helpful and I agree that they can be inclined to just throw drugs at a problem.
They do have a Chaplin at the school, but there is only one week left before the holidays and then she starts high school next year. :?


I had a lot of similar behavior around junior high, currently on medication for epilepsy (though at the time I really thought that I was schizophrenic, and was starting to doubt the AS diagnosis I'd had for three years at the time).

One thing to note is, that some seizures (particularly in temporal lobe epilepsy, which is associated with the hallucinations and other seizures you've described, which are like those that I've had), tend to originate from deeper in the brain, and are less likely to be recorded on an EEG. I had about 3 or 4 normal EEGs before I had one that showed up on.

About getting suddenly scared about a place, I've done that before...yeah it could be a lot of things, like bipolar or seizures, and I know that I would want to see if there was a physical cause before trying a behavior mod drug, especially with the seizure history. If you get such a test, push for a sleep-deprived one for the longest length of monitoring (often they only monitor for 30 minutes to an hour and if you don't have a seizure or detectable epileptiform waves, then you're out of luck diagnostically).


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psychotic_jester
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06 Dec 2008, 7:22 am

OK SLOW DOWN WITH SOME OF THIS DIAGNOSES JAZZ...Let me start off by saying I've been diagnosed schizophrenic which was later turned into the diagnoses schizoaffective: bipolar type. Which basically means I'm a little bit schizophrenic and alotta bit bi-polar. I have 9 years into studying psychology and extremely familiar with all types of disorders. So I have a little experience here.

Your daughters symptoms are not very indicative of schizophrenia, they really aren't. The simple fact that she asked you about hallucinations and voices is a pretty strong indicator of this. Schizophrenics generally are not aware that they are hallucinating. Schizophrenia is a very complex disorder, it's like wires a mixed up in the brain and the brain doesn't process things correctly. It's not so much the paranoia or the hallucinations that make up schizophrenia. The biggest keys to schizophrenia is disorganization on all levels, externally and internally. Thoughts, language, behavior, dress, etc, literally everything is disorganized.

The other thing about these "auditory hallucinations" is there are alot of other factors you're not taking into consideration, It's possible that she has sensitive hearing and she really is hearing voices outside her room but they are distant. It's also possible that she read about schizophrenia and is now having psychosomatic symptoms(her brain is making them up). Since she mentioned it, you're probably just "projecting" now. What I mean is maybe you read a little about schizophrenia and you're trying to make the symptoms fit what is going on when they actually don't. I know you're doing it a least a little from the fact that you mentioned "split personality disorder". You're actually reffering to dissociative identity disorder(DID) which used to be known as "multiple personality disorder". This is often portrayed as a symptom of schizophrenia in the media. It actually has nothing to do with schizophrenia, they are completely separate disorders and it is not at all common for these disorders to be co-morbid(exist together)...Yes, It does happen occasionally...So quit projecting!! ! Intern syndrome.....

I'm really not trying to be insulting so don't take it that way please, I'm basically saying don't worry so much and leave it to a doctor. Doctors are good at what they do(well most of the time). They went to school 8 years longer then you did for their specific trade.

I DO NOT suspect a psychiatric disorder from the information you've given(more info would be alot more helpful). There could be a possible behavioral disorder but some stuff at that age like stealing isn't uncommon. It happens and that could be more of a parenting issue, something you need to to work on with her yourself. I suggest you have your daughter evaluated by a behavioral specialist, or feel free to pm/IM me and I can evaluate some stuff with alot more info if you'd like since you don't have insurance and what not.

Here's the thing, you NEED to do more research on epilepsy. Given your daughters history she's obviously prone to seizures. There are many types of seizures that are much different from the typical spasming fish grand mal type seizure. Your daughter could be having simple or complex partial seizures. During these seizures, only a certain part of the brain is affected by abnormal electrical activity. This means the person can still be completely aware of whats going on, move, speak etc...It varies. Typical symptoms include:
* preserved consciousness
* sudden and inexplainable feelings of fear, anger, sadness, happiness or nausea
* experiencing of unusual feelings or sensations
* altered sense of hearing, smelling, tasting, seeing, and tactile perception (sensory illusions and/or hallucinations), or feeling as though the environment is not real or detachment from the environment (depersonalization)
* a sense of spatial distortion--things close by may appear to be at a distance.
* déjà vu (familiarity) or jamais vu (infamiliarity)
* laboured speech or inability to speak at all
* usually the event is remembered in detail

While asleep symptoms include:

* onset usually in REM sleep
* dream like state
* appearance of full consciousness
* hallucinations and/or delusions
* behavior or visions typical in dreams
* ability to engage with the environment and other people as in full consciousness, though often behaving abnormally, erratically, or failing to be coherent
* complete amnesia or assimilating the memory as though it was a normal dream on regaining full consciousness

Thats an excerpt from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_partial_seizure that's the link if you'd like to see the article. It's suspected that I may suffer from these type of seizures but being that I'm bipolar I was put on "mood stabilizers" which are actually anti-convulsants for epilepsy and have since stopped having the problem I was. So they're not really positive what was going on. But given that they were seizures as me and my doctors suspect. I can tell you that partial seizure can feel and look very strange behaviorally.

My suggestion, consult your doctors ASAP, discuss the idea of simple partial seizures and explain what is going on. DO NOT mention schizophrenia or try to exaggerate the symptoms to make it seem like that. Let them decide, don't try to influence the diagnoses. I suggest getting your daughter back on her anti-convulsants ASAP.

Ok well, it's 5:21 AM I need to go to bed, I can't think of anything else to say for now...Hope this helped and feel free to PM/im/e-mail me, like I said earlier. Good luck!

Oh wait, last thought, about all the doctors throwing drugs at her, OF COURSE THEY ARE! THAT'S WHAT DOCTORS DO! But, no matter what, whether she is having seizures, psychiatric problems, or actually schizophrenic as you suspect the treatment for all of those includes drugs. So you're both going to have to deal with that fact. There's nothing wrong with drugs. They're made to help people. If you treat whatever this is now, it will be much easier then when she get's to 19 like I did and has a complete mental break-down and end's up hospitalized or in a "psych ward" for suicidal behavior. My problems started at 13 and peaked at about 20-21ish for reference...


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psychotic_jester
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06 Dec 2008, 8:37 am

nightbender wrote:
I said PSCHIATRISTS are scam artist, and that is being polite. really psychiatrists are war criminals who need to be tried and executed for human rights violations(the preceding statement is my personal opinion but not by much). Yes there is a giangtic conspiracy to drugg and disable your child, psychiatrists admits so in their private meetings. Psychology is a valid science, psychiatry is less sophisticated than phrenology and less scientific. i agree with you on everything except four and five.

The fact is people experience psychosis have 70-85% better chance of recovery when medication and mental heath treatment is unavaible such as in third world counrtries.

Hearing voices is such a false flag. People in non western cultures hear voices all the time and it doestn cause anything to happen and is an accepted and even valued cultural norm. The spontaneous recovery rate is very high for most things called mental illness. people who have had psychotic experiences and gone untreated often report greater satifaction and sense of purpose when it recedes.

a little factoid is that neuroleptics used for "psychosis" ALWAYS cause brain damage, have a chemical action similar to nerve gas and insecticide, and cause and increase in the long term suscibility to psychosis.


WOW!...alot of the things you're saying could be considered characteristic of schizophrenia. I can't believe you're saying all this, You're no different then the people saying autism is caused by mercury! you're talking ridiculous conspiracy theories and trying to discourage people from taking drugs that would probably greatly help them, just like the people that are saying don't vaccinate now. This is doing alot of harm and is ridiculous! STOP IT!

Site your sources of this 70-85% chance of recovery from psychosis without med, please!! ! I would love to see that. Neuroleptics or anti-psychotics DO NOT always cause brain damage! That's crap do some more research. What did you read, one or two obscure studies from the 80's that some weird activist group wrote? Yes, there is evidence of some neurological issues occuring from anti-psychotics here and there. It's not like severe brain damage. The most common thing is tardive dyskinesia where pretty much the person has involuntary motor movements such as sticking out their tongue or smacking lips. It's nothing like really huge and the symptoms often go away after the medication is stopped. Now, mind you, this is mostly with the older anti-psychotics. Luckily our wonderfully drug companies, make drugs to HELP YOU! not DISABLE YOU! and that would be why they've now came up with atypical anti-psychotics for people. The atypicals have very very few side-effects and have been found to be extremely effective. I've taken them, I have NO BRAIN DAMAGE! I'm fine and they worked great when I was having psychotic episodes.

I don't even know what to say about all this. I could rip all of your statements to pieces. Absolutely none of your statements have any proof or evidence. People like you piss me off. All I'm going to say is I suffer from psychosis, depression, anxiety, and all sorts of other things. diagnosed schizoaffective: bipolar type, panic disorder, and ADHD. I suffered for 8 years horribly before I finally admitted defeat and sought out treatment at the point that I became so debilitated I could barely function. I mean I wasn't sleeping for a week at a time, I was having panic attacks constantly, mood swings, hallucinations, extremely depressed. Every day was a struggle just to get by and not want to kill myself. Now, 1 year later, with the help of the drug lamictal, some therapy and work with a PSYCHIATRIST! and a little bit of a helping hand from vocational rehab getting my life on track. I'm in college with a 4.0 GPA, I'm HAPPY! I'm stable, I'm functioning well, I'm not having mood swings, panic attacks, psychotic or manic episodes, I sleep great, etc...

So you say drugs and psychiatry don't work? I got an idea SHUT UP AND KEEP YOUR OPINIONS TO YOURSELF!! ! Don't ever discourage people with problems from getting the help they need. If you don't want help that's fine go be delusional and paranoid but don't let it rub off on other people!

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk but I've known enough people that have killed themselves because they didn't believe they could get help. Didn't believe the drugs would work. They gave up hope and didn't try because people like you told them it wouldn't help. That's not fair at all....


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Last edited by psychotic_jester on 06 Dec 2008, 8:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

psychotic_jester
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06 Dec 2008, 8:48 am

OK OK...last message...I don't know how so many people construed these symptoms to be traits of bipolar disorder but they're really not. Bipolar is characterized by episodes of mania and depression meaning she would have ups and downs that are slowly changing over time, not rapid like he was describing. Rapid mood changes generally are connected to hormones but also occur in borderline personality disorder(BPD). BPD is not diagnosed before the age of 18 however as personalities are still developing before 18 and these traits may change.

Basically all I'm saying is from the information given, bi-polar disorder is not a logically deducible diagnoses. If she was bi-polar, once again, she would have episodes of mania in which she would exhibit; extreme energy, with rapid/pressured speech, racing thought, not sleeping or sleeping very little but still being very hyper, and many other things followed by a crash and sever depression with suicidal behavior and all that jazz...I could blab about all the other symptoms but I don't feel like listing them all. That's just a rough idea. If those symptoms are going on, then I would worry about bi-polar disorder...otherwise, discard that idea....

wow, I've been blabbering alot in this thread...well hopefully this was helpful for everyone. If anyone else needs info on psychology feel free to contact me...9 years studying...happy to help...


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capriwim
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06 Dec 2008, 8:49 am

I would say definitely take her to see a psychiatrist. Maybe two, to get a second opinion.

I would also add that hearing voices is a lot more common than people realise, and that hearing voices in itself doesn't mean you have schizophrenia. There are a lot more other symptoms for a diagnosis of schizophrenia to be made.



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06 Dec 2008, 12:28 pm

Saying she has an anyonymous close friend with psychotic symptoms doesn't mean it's her having these problems. I have said similar things because if one of my friends trusts me with knowing they hear things that aren't real, I have no right to tell other people what they've told me. Also, the next time they come round my house, I wouldn't want my mum to be thinking 'Are they crazy?' the whole time and finding difficult to act normal now that I've told her about the problems they're having.



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06 Dec 2008, 1:08 pm

Well, since everyone here probably has you worried to death already, I'm going to tell you there is a good chance it is something simple.

I've had similar episodes at different points in my life. They've happened when I've been really stressed. However, it wasn't the stress that did it, but the fact that stress causes me to stop eating. I'm vegetarian as it is, so I have to be careful to get enough nutrients.

It turned out I'm prone to B-vitamin deficiency.
I now take supplements daily to make sure it doesn't happen.

Psychological symptoms of B deficiency: depression, personality changes, delusions, hallucinations

I'm not saying that's what it is, I'm just saying check the simple things first before putting your daughter through experiences she may not need to have.



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06 Dec 2008, 2:25 pm

Well, they did give me B12 injection when I was in the hospital. I think they must do that as a matter of course, just in case of a deficiency, because it is quite harmless in anyone who doesn't have an overdose of B12. (Well, or hemophilia. Heh.)


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06 Dec 2008, 2:32 pm

nightbender wrote:
Kirska wrote:
I highly doubt every psychiatrist is a scam artist. :roll:

well their are a few good ones like dr. breggin and dr. tomas szaz who speak out against the proffesion and dont proscribe drugs.

BUt for the most part every psychiatrist is in fact a scam artist because he misrepresents himself claiming to treat a diseases that have never been proven to exist.

Then the flaw is in the actual psychiatry practice at this point in time, not the psychiatrists themselves. If anything they're misinformed. They're not out to scam and harm people.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some are, but to write off all of them as scam artists is just silly.


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06 Dec 2008, 3:04 pm

Shivani wrote:
This has occurred to me. When she didn't want to sleep in her room she slept in the spare room for a few nights but then something freaked her out in there and she told me she would not sleep in there because it was haunted!
But, we have lived in this house for 3 years and it is a new house and I am pretty sure the land is okay.

Another unusual thing;
Just last night she came running out into the lounge from the shower wet and towel around her, eyes wild. She said she could hear us out here screaming and calling her name and it sounded as if someone was trying to murder us! It was very freaky. We were just sitting around talking.

I think she is inclined to some paranoid thinking at times. She will sometimes say that everyone hates her and that the 'ghosts' or people she hears talking are out to get her.



Okay I'm more inclined now to think she might be really seeing ghosts. One thing is for sure she is obviously a very sensitive young lady and you should be careful not to let her watch any of the numerous ghost hunter tv shows that are on tv constantly. Those shows are much too scary for most adults let alone youngsters.

If you really want her evaluated take her to a psychologist or neuropsychologist. MD's will not understand and psychiatrists are guaranteed to put her on drugs because that's all they do is drug people. Since she has a tendency towards seizures be careful of antidepressants because some of them, such as Welbutrin will cause seizures in people prone to them. I had that happen to me where some moron doctor gave me Welbutrin and I started having seizures and auras after I had not had a seizure since I was like 9 yrs old! Perhaps take her to a naturopathic doctor. She could have some kind of endocrine imbalance as low thyroid has been known to cause all sorts of mental issues.



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06 Dec 2008, 3:13 pm

Psychiatrists do not simply drug kids, they take into account many issues, and surely they would take into account any seizure issues. It is a negative myth that psychiatrists just say "Here." and hand you a bottle of pills.



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06 Dec 2008, 3:53 pm

violet_yoshi wrote:
It is a negative myth that psychiatrists just say "Here." and hand you a bottle of pills.


That's true. Outside of the NHS, that is.

Every doctor I saw on my search for a diagnosis - from my GP to the mental health people - tried to force me to take antidepressants with little knowledge of my medical or psychological background (I'm a transplant from the US). Apparently going into a doctor's office and thinking there is something wrong with you is grounds for being medicated. :x



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06 Dec 2008, 5:20 pm

Kirska wrote:
nightbender wrote:
Kirska wrote:
I highly doubt every psychiatrist is a scam artist. :roll:

well their are a few good ones like dr. breggin and dr. tomas szaz who speak out against the proffesion and dont proscribe drugs.

BUt for the most part every psychiatrist is in fact a scam artist because he misrepresents himself claiming to treat a diseases that have never been proven to exist.

Then the flaw is in the actual psychiatry practice at this point in time, not the psychiatrists themselves. If anything they're misinformed. They're not out to scam and harm people.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some are, but to write off all of them as scam artists is just silly.



yes thats what is. however, most people who become psychiatrists are sociopaths and people with mental problems themselves, who gravitate toward the proffesion because they get off on lording over people and filling their pockets. very few people become psychiatrists because they care.



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06 Dec 2008, 5:29 pm

also look into the possiblity she has an infection. certain microbia like lymes disease or t condi can cause mental symptoms.



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07 Dec 2008, 2:38 am

Shivani,

You're not going to get what you need from this forum. Take your child to a doctor. There's no way around it.

Getting such a wide array of opinions only shows only a medical opinion is going to help. It not only will give you an answer or a lead, it will help your daughter.

Don't worry about asking questions of the professionals either. If you have a doc you feel is good, he's not going to let your worries sway his/her professional opinion.

I agree with some others about having the epilepsy theory checked out. It may by manifesting differently.

She needs something, but it's not here on the board, Shivani. Make an appointment.

Good luck, and I hope it turns out well.



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07 Dec 2008, 5:31 am

nightbender wrote:
Kirska wrote:
nightbender wrote:
Kirska wrote:
I highly doubt every psychiatrist is a scam artist. :roll:

well their are a few good ones like dr. breggin and dr. tomas szaz who speak out against the proffesion and dont proscribe drugs.

BUt for the most part every psychiatrist is in fact a scam artist because he misrepresents himself claiming to treat a diseases that have never been proven to exist.

Then the flaw is in the actual psychiatry practice at this point in time, not the psychiatrists themselves. If anything they're misinformed. They're not out to scam and harm people.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some are, but to write off all of them as scam artists is just silly.



yes thats what is. however, most people who become psychiatrists are sociopaths and people with mental problems themselves, who gravitate toward the proffesion because they get off on lording over people and filling their pockets. very few people become psychiatrists because they care.


Wow, that is a completely wrong and biased assumption to have of all psychiatrists! Maybe you had a bad experience with a psychiatrist, but I certainly would not go as far to say they are sociopaths. Sociopaths are people who murder and have a general disregard for human life, in case this was a matter of you simply not understanding the extent of labeling someone with that personality type.