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dsfargeg
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
Posts: 30
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 Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Uh, is this "backstabbing etiquette" thing an American cultural kerfluffle?
Because I live in Mexico, and so far, out of all the people I know, nobody, absolutely nobody approves of talking sh** about someone behind their backs. Granted, there are degrees to what happens: if someone just calls you an asshole behind the back, you just don't go with them the next time they go out, while if someone calls you a f****-up asshole in front of the headmaster, that really deserves a beating. But so far I've seen nobody going around approving of backstabbing.
Last edited by dsfargeg on Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sallamandrina
Deinonychus
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Joined: Jan 25, 2009
Age: 34
Posts: 355
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| dsfargeg wrote: | | Uh, is this "backstabbing etiquette" thing an American cultural kerfluffle? |
I couldn't tell you - I'm not American.
I've lived in several places in Europe and I wouldn't say it's considered normal behavior. If you work for a big corporation (at least that's my experience) or in a very competitive environment, it can be "standard procedure"  , but otherwise is up to the occasional b***h or bully to act like that. But I noticed that if you manage to pull it off and be successful most people will put up with it.
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"The destructive character is cheerful and friendly and knows only one motto: Make Room" - Walter Benjamin |
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Hovis
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Age: 35
Posts: 946
Location: Lincolnshire, England
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| gina-ghettoprincess wrote: | | The rule as I have observed is more along the lines of: "If you have the edge socially, you can do whatever the hell you want. If you're just a geek, you have no chance." |
It's the 'if your face fits' principle. As you say, if it does, then whatever you do, it's always alright and you had a perfectly good reason for it, no matter how rude or hurtful it was, but if people decide that your face doesn't 'fit', you're not permitted to put one foot out of line.
| Quote: | | Like when a girl stole £5 from my purse right in front of me then boasted about it, I told her she had 24 hours to give it back else I'd tell the teacher, so she turns on the waterworks and says her family's poor, so her friends accused ME of bullying HER. |
I had a similar thing happen once. I was at home and some girls I vaguely knew came to the door and told my mother they'd come to play with me and she let them in and left us alone to 'play'. After about an hour of being bullied and laughed at in my own house, they left, but stole some of my stuff that they'd made me show them. They would have got away with it except that I saw them carrying the things and demanded they give them back. Then they made out that I was mean because I wouldn't let them get away with theft! |
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Greentea
Goddess of Wisdom
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Age: 47
Posts: 5503
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Many people (me included) would prefer to be upfront about their conflicts with others and instead they resort to backstabbing every time. This is not irrational, the reason is very clear and crucial: whoever is in power in the group will not tolerate a scene. They don't give a damn if you kill each other in private, but theż demand that the sheep keep up the pretense that all is peaceful and bliss in the group. This is the case at work, at school, in the family, the club, etc. The one punished, therefore, is the victim, for upsetting the pretense of blissful peace and speaking up. Nowadays, since I learned this, I ONLY backstab, NEVER make a scene in front of the group. I hate it, but if I'm in society I have to accept their rules.
A friend of mine bought a very expensive ticket to a high quality opera show. When she arrived, someone else had stolen her very expensive seat. She tried to persuade him to get up and when he wouldn't, and seeing as the guards didn't give a damn, she yelled at the guy that had stolen her seat. Result: she was the one called out of the theater by the admin, for breaking the peace.
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So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur. |
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Nutterbug
Toucan
Joined: Jul 05, 2008
Posts: 277
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Backstabbing etiquette |
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| Sallamandrina wrote: | I'm referring to the kind of situation when somebody says something horrible behind your back or hurts you in a significant way and when you accidentally meet they are all smiles and (fake) friendliness. I've noticed that if you tell them off or ask them to leave you alone, you're considered immature and advised to "get over it" or "grow up" (not to mention they seem satisfied to see you upset).
Analyzing similar situations I've witnessed along the years, the code seems to be somewhere in the area "I can stab you in the back if it takes my fancy and you can do the same if you have the b@lls, but in front of others we'll purr nicely and pretend to be best friends". |
Women have a code?  |
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Nutterbug
Toucan
Joined: Jul 05, 2008
Posts: 277
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| dsfargeg wrote: | Uh, is this "backstabbing etiquette" thing an American cultural kerfluffle?
Because I live in Mexico, and so far, out of all the people I know, nobody, absolutely nobody approves of talking sh** about someone behind their backs. Granted, there are degrees to what happens: if someone just calls you an asshole behind the back, you just don't go with them the next time they go out, while if someone calls you a f****-up asshole in front of the headmaster, that really deserves a beating. But so far I've seen nobody going around approving of backstabbing. |
We're talking about women here.
I'm sure they live by a different set of rules from the guys there in Mexico as anywhere else. |
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Sallamandrina
Deinonychus
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Joined: Jan 25, 2009
Age: 34
Posts: 355
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Nutterbug wrote: | | We're talking about women here. |
No we're not - but you're free to do it if you see yourself as an expert
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"The destructive character is cheerful and friendly and knows only one motto: Make Room" - Walter Benjamin |
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Nutterbug
Toucan
Joined: Jul 05, 2008
Posts: 277
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Sallamandrina wrote: | | Nutterbug wrote: | | We're talking about women here. |
No we're not - but you're free to do it if you see yourself as an expert |
"I can stab you in the back if it takes my fancy and you can do the same if you have the b@lls, but in front of others we'll purr nicely and pretend to be best friends"
Sounds like girly games if you ask me (except maybe for the "b@lls" part). |
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Sallamandrina
Deinonychus
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Joined: Jan 25, 2009
Age: 34
Posts: 355
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Then I guess most men working for big corporations are pretty girly 
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"The destructive character is cheerful and friendly and knows only one motto: Make Room" - Walter Benjamin |
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Greentea
Goddess of Wisdom
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Age: 47
Posts: 5503
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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My thoughts exactly.
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So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur. |
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Sallamandrina
Deinonychus
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Joined: Jan 25, 2009
Age: 34
Posts: 355
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Greentea wrote: | | This is not irrational, the reason is very clear and crucial: whoever is in power in the group will not tolerate a scene. They don't give a damn if you kill each other in private, but theż demand that the sheep keep up the pretense that all is peaceful and bliss in the group. |
I think you're right - that's why i mentioned big corporations - it's the kind of environment with zero tolerance for any kind of "confrontation" or manifest disapproval; the incident I had in mind when I opened this thread was along these lines (and btw, involved a group of guys).
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"The destructive character is cheerful and friendly and knows only one motto: Make Room" - Walter Benjamin |
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Greentea
Goddess of Wisdom
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Age: 47
Posts: 5503
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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I've been working in big corporations for many years, and much of my observation of people comes from work. But frankly, I wish I could say it's any different anywhere else. And sadly, the same thing happens here on WP among others, under your very nose. We all have to pretend to be one harmonious flock, or else we'll be banned, so all the nastiness that takes place between 2 posters in the threads themselves is hidden from everyone else's eyes. As long as the mods can look at the big pasture from a distance and see a flock (seemingly) peacefully grazing together, they're happy. I've been backstabbed in plain daylight in some threads, and I've given back as good as I've received, yet nobody would notice.
The more demanding of """"peace"""" the powers that be are, the more phony and backstabbing people are. This duplicity is not out of pleasure but out of necessity.
In my previous job it was customary that the women would backstab and badmouth each other but when the bosses were watching (ie in the corridors) they'd constantly hug and kiss each other like lovers. The bosses, being men, loved to see this among women but especially loved to lie to themselves that the people in the company loved each other to bits. They kept saying it.
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So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur. |
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Nutterbug
Toucan
Joined: Jul 05, 2008
Posts: 277
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Sallamandrina wrote: | | Then I guess most men working for big corporations are pretty girly |
Oh corporate world? I hear they're a whole different level of sleaze altogether.
I was basing my assumption on high school observations, and the fact that the question was raised by a female. |
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Sallamandrina
Deinonychus
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Joined: Jan 25, 2009
Age: 34
Posts: 355
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like a nightmare to me. I've been very lucky to manage to stay away from this kind of things and generally large groups, but that, of course, comes with a price.
When forced to deal with people like that I always confront them or pretend I have no idea who they are - it seems to upset and confuse them (I make it obvious I make my own rules and that comes across as arrogant) and they don't get the chance to pull another one on me.
Greentea, I think you're one of the few people who learned a lot from your experiences - bitter as some of them certainly were - I admire that.
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"The destructive character is cheerful and friendly and knows only one motto: Make Room" - Walter Benjamin
Last edited by Sallamandrina on Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sallamandrina
Deinonychus
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Joined: Jan 25, 2009
Age: 34
Posts: 355
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Nutterbug wrote: | | Sallamandrina wrote: | | Then I guess most men working for big corporations are pretty girly |
Oh corporate world? I hear they're a whole different level of sleaze altogether.
I was basing my assumption on high school observations, and the fact that the question was raised by a female. |
Indeed they are
Weird enough, I did well in high school - I couldn't care less for group leaders or dynamics, so I was ranked pretty high by others. Didn't care about that either and that was apparently a power statement.
This thread was not that personal - I just noticed most NT seem to have a "backstabbing etiquette" and know instinctively how to react, when to me this whole "dance" looks stupid and unnecessary.
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"The destructive character is cheerful and friendly and knows only one motto: Make Room" - Walter Benjamin |
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