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Collatz Conjecture

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Fuzzy
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13 Nov 2009, 3:36 pm

LeMesurier wrote:
Orwell wrote:
LeMesurier wrote:
May one ask what the use of this is?

It's not normally considered etiquette to question a mathematician on the application of their studies.


You mean, it's quite useless. :P


Its not useless.

A big problem with science is when you have preconceptions, or material reasons to arrive at a certain conclusion. The scientist strives to be unbiased, but we are all human.

Its like the scientists that are paid by oil companies. Do you think there is strong pressure to find cause against climate change from fossil fuels?

Or religious organisations funding science studying genetics. Will they continue funding someone that promulgates theory of evolution? Probably not.

So mathematics is stretching knowledge, without worry that worldly matters will unduly influence results. Mathematicians like things pure, so they stay on the frontier.

Besides, thats where the interesting stuff happens.


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Orwell
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13 Nov 2009, 4:19 pm

LeMesurier wrote:
You mean, it's quite useless. :P

I'm not certain what implications the Collatz conjecture would have, but you would be surprised at how little useless mathematics there is out there. For almost every piece of obscure, abstract, and esoteric mathematics, there is actually a use. But that's not why mathematicians study math. You may as well be hounding musicians and asking them what use their work has.


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CloudWalker
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13 Nov 2009, 4:43 pm

If things are only done for their usefulness the world would be boring.



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13 Nov 2009, 6:34 pm

Well, I'll have to mull Collatz later, since I'm working on Goldbach's at the moment...



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14 Nov 2009, 3:46 am

Aoi wrote:
Well, I'll have to mull Collatz later, since I'm working on Goldbach's at the moment...


Good luck!

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LeMesurier
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14 Nov 2009, 11:34 am

Orwell wrote:
LeMesurier wrote:
Now, this is something you can talk about. Mathemathicians on the other hand dont bother to talk in normal language.
I think mathematicians like this, sort of being part of a secret society.

The reason for the specialized terminology is because "normal" language does not have appropriate words to describe the concepts we need in mathematics, and when it does have words they are not precise enough.


Math seems to be the only 'science' with this problem.



Orwell
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14 Nov 2009, 1:12 pm

LeMesurier wrote:
Math seems to be the only 'science' with this problem.

Math is quite different from the natural sciences. And besides that, what are you talking about? Biology has way more specialized terminology than math.


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14 Nov 2009, 6:56 pm

Orwell wrote:
LeMesurier wrote:
Math seems to be the only 'science' with this problem.

Math is quite different from the natural sciences. And besides that, what are you talking about? Biology has way more specialized terminology than math.


Also organic chemistry. There are so many complex molecules with strange names.

The real kicker in chemistry is the diagrams for the molecules. They are quite complicated.

Also, medicine which is both an applied science and an art has a very complicated technical vocabulary.

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14 Nov 2009, 11:19 pm

yeah, the chemical names were thought up in the19th century in Germany...;)

The theorum may be useless now, but you never know, sometime in the future, it may have an application...


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ruveyn
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15 Nov 2009, 6:42 am

pakled wrote:
yeah, the chemical names were thought up in the19th century in Germany...;)

The theorum may be useless now, but you never know, sometime in the future, it may have an application...


My point precisely. Also the various mathematical strategies necessary to resolved the conjecture may produce new mathematics that could prove useful in other fields. For example advanced analytic number theory produced mathematics that is used in cryptography.

ruveyn