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amboxer21
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14 Sep 2012, 10:42 pm

Thats just it though, they are good enough. One doesn't need an IDE or Emacs to achieve a professional level of recognition. Its a preference! The end result is what counts.

Also, just because I have never wrote a 1200 line program, doesn't mean I can't. Its not a profession, its a hobby. I stop when it is no longer fun and becomes work.



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15 Sep 2012, 2:09 am

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
I've heard good things about CodeBlocks, I usually use Visual Studio 2008 (not 2010, somehow they managed to make something as relatively simple as an IDE GUI run slow on a modern PC which is ridiculous). I even use VS to edit code I build in Linux or Mac OS.


VS 2010 is slow because it's using WPF. After eating their own dog food, they are now eating their own dog poop :?



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15 Sep 2012, 5:58 am

amboxer21 wrote:
Thats just it though, they are good enough. One doesn't need an IDE or Emacs to achieve a professional level of recognition. Its a preference! The end result is what counts.

Also, just because I have never wrote a 1200 line program, doesn't mean I can't. Its not a profession, its a hobby. I stop when it is no longer fun and becomes work.


I'm not talking 1200 lines, I'm talking 1.2 million lines, or 12 million lines. At that level, I'm pretty sure you will find gcc at the command line won't cut it too well for you :)



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15 Sep 2012, 6:01 am

Tomatoes wrote:
MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
I've heard good things about CodeBlocks, I usually use Visual Studio 2008 (not 2010, somehow they managed to make something as relatively simple as an IDE GUI run slow on a modern PC which is ridiculous). I even use VS to edit code I build in Linux or Mac OS.


VS 2010 is slow because it's using WPF. After eating their own dog food, they are now eating their own dog poop :?


I figured it was something like that, it looks like a total reimplementation compared to 08. Microsoft is suffering from the common corporate issue that people within MS have to do things the MS way, whether a particular MS library or product is fundamentally screwed or not. In fact they're up there with Apple as to how aggressive they are about it.

If I ran a development studio, even if it grew to be quite large I would make a point of telling my developers to try to use in-house products but if the in-house products are not cutting it, not to be afraid to deviate.

I also make a point of not using a library or adding a dependency at all unless it adds a tangible, important contribution. Because of this I tend to end up with few dependencies compared to other people. IMO this model of thought is part of what made Id's games so successful (and fast) in the 90s, and I think if anything it's more relevant than ever now.



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15 Sep 2012, 6:52 am

only to some extent when ti comes to gaming, there is a need in modern gaming for decentralized and ad hoc programming,
you also have the by comparison infinitely more advanced graphics and game logic and making all of that from scratch every time is simply not feasible.
in house is unrealistic in that context as well, which is why you see people using the same engines as their competitors, though some grouping does occur.


all of that is before you consider moddability and easy access to the game code for doing stuff that no programmer that worked on it imagined, at least nto at the conception of the game.
in that context a highly modular and standardized programming style allows for a far more usefull program, even if it sacrifices some performance due to 3rd party lack of optimizaiton.
that said the industry arent excactly fond of being bound by directx, despite its quality level, valve is currently trying to create their own directx substitute that is meant to make all games started through steam, even non steam games, run under linux.

other than that, i agree too many libraries and dependencies can make a product inaccesible, either due to unforseen bugs when used in other setups or the sheer pain of installation, minecraft mods are especially bad at this, often with 2 or 3 entire mods or api packages as dependencies, some fo those even with their own, it doesnt take long before it becomes a buggy mess, too far gone for salvation.


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15 Sep 2012, 7:38 am

All good points. The problem with using MS APIs is you easily get stuck in the MS API. I've developed things in OpenGL that I was then able to port to WebGL/JavaScript, etc, without a ton of hassle. Although the ease of doing that was probably also enhanced by my not using many APIs in the original product other than libstdcxx/STL and OpenGL, and if I did, modularizing the parts that did.



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15 Sep 2012, 8:30 am

have you seen the graphics presented by rage??

all opengl and bar a few release bugs relating to graphics it really does look amazing, runs on linux natively as well.


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15 Sep 2012, 9:43 am

RAGE is approximately what I'd expect from Id. It looks good, but I almost kind of miss the days when a game like Quake would come out and absolutely walk all over everything else anyone had ever seen.

I'm sort of eager for a voxel engine like Id Tech 6.

In my graphics programming, I haven't really felt constrained much by the API. If anything, geometry shaders are important and I wish OGL ES had them. Other than that, a shader is a shader and as long as I can use shaders, I can make magic happen.



amboxer21
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15 Sep 2012, 9:46 am

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
amboxer21 wrote:
Thats just it though, they are good enough. One doesn't need an IDE or Emacs to achieve a professional level of recognition. Its a preference! The end result is what counts.

Also, just because I have never wrote a 1200 line program, doesn't mean I can't. Its not a profession, its a hobby. I stop when it is no longer fun and becomes work.


I'm not talking 1200 lines, I'm talking 1.2 million lines, or 12 million lines. At that level, I'm pretty sure you will find gcc at the command line won't cut it too well for you :)


I'm pretty sure that the OP will not be writing 12 million lines of code. ;)



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15 Sep 2012, 9:54 am

amboxer21 wrote:
MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
amboxer21 wrote:
Thats just it though, they are good enough. One doesn't need an IDE or Emacs to achieve a professional level of recognition. Its a preference! The end result is what counts.

Also, just because I have never wrote a 1200 line program, doesn't mean I can't. Its not a profession, its a hobby. I stop when it is no longer fun and becomes work.


I'm not talking 1200 lines, I'm talking 1.2 million lines, or 12 million lines. At that level, I'm pretty sure you will find gcc at the command line won't cut it too well for you :)


I'm pretty sure that the OP will not be writing 12 million lines of code. ;)


He needs to get used to the IDE.



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15 Sep 2012, 10:02 am

Also, I know some people may disagree with me, and I may think they're masochistic, but I prefer debugging within the IDE to launching GDB manually.



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15 Sep 2012, 11:24 am

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
RAGE is approximately what I'd expect from Id. It looks good, but I almost kind of miss the days when a game like Quake would come out and absolutely walk all over everything else anyone had ever seen.

I'm sort of eager for a voxel engine like Id Tech 6.

In my graphics programming, I haven't really felt constrained much by the API. If anything, geometry shaders are important and I wish OGL ES had them. Other than that, a shader is a shader and as long as I can use shaders, I can make magic happen.


i havent done any graphical processing more advanced than drawing simple shapes in 2d and 3d, still a hell.

at one point i might be interested in it but as it stands now all my creative drive is used in modding other games(or engines) or creating functional programs with very specific tasks in mind.
most of my needs are fulfilled within python and lua, that said i am learning c++, mainly so i can then learn uC for ARM chips.


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15 Sep 2012, 7:18 pm

Messed around and made a drawing tool with WebGL :)

http://glide.me/



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16 Sep 2012, 8:00 am

looks smooth, fun to play with

it is quite sensitive towards backwards movement, inducing a circle where the marker turned back on itself.


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16 Sep 2012, 4:24 pm

You mean it generates corners relatively easily?

I noticed it behaves a little differently in Chrome vs. Firefox and Opera, Chrome's mouse sampling rate is way too slow.



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16 Sep 2012, 7:12 pm

well i wouldnt call it corners excactly but circles on the line (you can see how the drawkine went round, creating small pacman like circles.

i think it happens if one inadvertantly pulls back a little while drawing a line, so strictly not an actual bug.

is it really the sample rate of the browser running the app that is used?


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