Is a universal translator possible

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22 Jan 2014, 5:22 pm

I hate to say it, but google is about as good as it gets for right now. What is needed is more people contributing to google's linguistics database, and expansion of the languages covered. --It's still impossible to get Latin translated, as it is for Dhari.

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TallyMan
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22 Jan 2014, 5:39 pm

Fogman wrote:

Google translate has got a long way to go yet. I've used it extensively for translating English to French and I've had the French translations verified by native French speakers. Around 80% of the sentences translated by Google either contain mistakes in meaning or serious grammatical errors. Some of the sentences are effectively trashed, especially if Google cannot determine the context of a word e.g. "log" does the sentence refer to a piece of wood or a list of computer transactions. Google comes up with some real howlers when it picks the wrong meaning for a word.

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eric76
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22 Jan 2014, 6:11 pm

I don't know if anyone does this any more, but when Google first did their translate application, I used to know someone who enjoyed finding English texts that he could translate to another language and then back into English with bizarre changes in meanings as a result of the double translation.

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22 Jan 2014, 8:33 pm

WillMcC wrote:

^ Yes, but can it accurately translate the meaning of a surprisingly sophisticated attempt to do a double backward somersault through a hoop while whistling the "Star Spangled Banner"

Nice quote and It clearly demonstrates what an incredibly astute social commentator DA was. For those who think google translate is an effective tool he also has a parable.
http://hhgproject.org/entries/carelesstalk.html

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23 Jan 2014, 8:25 am

Google translate is not isomorphic.

binaryodes
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23 Jan 2014, 9:37 am

My original question was whether a Trek style UT would be possible. This hasnt really been addressed. People are referring to google translation and babelfish which is not quite what I was going for.

I'll rephrase: Could we ever have computers with versatility sufficient to hear a totally alien non terrestrial languge for the first time and translate it straight into English A la star trek

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Last edited by binaryodes on 23 Jan 2014, 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

eric76
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23 Jan 2014, 10:14 am

binaryodes wrote:

My original question was whether a STAR TREK style UT would be possible. This hasnt really been addressed. People are referring to google translation and babelfish which is not quite what I was going for.

I'll rephrase: Could we ever have computers with versatility sufficient to here a totally alien non terrestrial languge for the first time and translate it straight into English A la star trek

Absolutely not

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23 Jan 2014, 10:47 am

eric76 wrote:

binaryodes wrote:

Absolutely not

Why not? Granted, the original Trek and perhaps Next Generation technology (on the whole) might make it seem implausible (as limited as the Enterprise computer was in TOS how did a universal translator get the job done in a smaller package), but it's really just a question of processing power and software...right?

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23 Jan 2014, 12:32 pm

eric76 wrote:

For example, under one simple classification of subjects, objects, and verbes, we have (from Wikipedia):

Quote:

SOV "She him loves." 45% Japanese, Latin, Turkish
SVO "She loves him." 42% English, Mandarin, Russian
VSO "Loves she him." 9% Hebrew, Irish, Zapotec
VOS "Loves him she." 3% Malagasy, Baure
OVS "Him loves she." 1% Apalaí?, Hixkaryana?
OSV "Him she loves." 0% Warao, Yoda

Yoda?

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23 Jan 2014, 12:37 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

eric76 wrote:

binaryodes wrote:

Absolutely not

No, its a combination of at least four things:
1. sensors to pick up the sound and pick up associated body language facial expressions and tentacle waving then
2. processing power then
3. software and
4. most importantly of all an extensive database containing words with their translations in the other language. If the database does not exist there is no frame of reference. The words are all just meaningless - just a bunch of sounds.

Have you ever tried to learn another language? Someone tells you they like to eat yuvrikibils - it means nothing until someone either points out that the word is equivalent to bananas or shows you the object in question because you've never seen one in your life before. No amount of processing power or software is going to solve that problem.

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23 Jan 2014, 12:40 pm

A perfect translator would have to handle natural queries. Computer scientists have tried to get this to work for decades, and despite the fact that we now have super computers with more petaflops than the human brain, we're still far from anything that remotely resembles it.

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23 Jan 2014, 12:47 pm

Kurgan wrote:

I think that is just a technical limitation; one that will eventually be conquered. The IBM Watson software is starting to create waves. There has been some speculation that it has already been used in cold-call telesales because if can pass itself off as a human being and handle dialogue related to the product/service being sold. Even if this story turns out to be false, it is likely just a matter of time. However, behind Watson is a massive database of words and phrases and statistical analysis to determine what is being said to it and how best to respond.

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Kurgan
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23 Jan 2014, 1:24 pm

TallyMan wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

In theory, it could be done, but it would require a database holding a six digit number of words for more than 6,000 languages. Furthermore, this database would need countless of possible contextes and sentences where these words could be used. IBM Watson is very impressive, but speaking from a technical point of view, it's principally an advanced search engine, which is indexed based on combinations of words.

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23 Jan 2014, 2:22 pm

TallyMan wrote:

Fogman wrote:

I've actually had good luck translating French to English via google. OTOH, try translating German to English, or vice versa, or better yet Magyar to English, or vice versa to see the verbal diarrhea that it s**ts out as a translation.

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23 Jan 2014, 2:43 pm

binaryodes wrote:

Not without building up a linguistic database, repleat with colloqiualisms which might, in the best case take a few days to develop and solve without having 'engrish' come out. OTOH, the handset 'Translator' used in ST TOG and TNG would most likely be a nothing more than a handset interface that ties into the ship's main computer.

At the same time, this problem is compounded by the relativisic aspect of light, as well as radio signals emitted by the handset interface being limited to 186 kilomiles/sec, unless FTL 'Ansible' style communication technology is not only known, but perfected and miniaturised to the point that that it can be implemented in the above mentioned form factor.

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eric76
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23 Jan 2014, 3:03 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

eric76 wrote:

binaryodes wrote:

Absolutely not

Nope.

What you want is to develop a device that has complete knowledge instantly without any learning at all.

That's not going to happen.

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