Board index › Topical Discussion › Computers, Math, Science, and Technology

Collapse of the Wave Function

Page 2 of 2 [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Previous topic | Next topic

BaalChatzaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,050
Location: Monroe Twp. NJ

14 Jun 2016, 8:42 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
BaalChatzaf wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
Anachron wrote:
I feel that an entirely new system of thought will be required.


I agree. However, there is a catch in all of this. Whomever does come up with the new system will face an uphill battle to get it accepted by other scientists if it cannot be proved absolute by our technology.


theories are acceptable precisely because they are supported by experiment. Choosing a theory is NOT a popularity contest. Quantum Physics is the all time champion theory for making correct predictions of all phenomena except for gravitation. Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is the all time champion for predicting gravitational effects and phenomena. Every time the GPS locates you to within ten feet of your location that is yet another corroboration of The Special Theory of Relativity and the General Theory of Relativity.

If you want a new theory then cook one up that predicts better than Quantum Theory or Einstein's relativity theories.


You have missed my point that I was commenting on. When one comes up with a radical new scientific method/theory, no matter how good or accurate it is with experimental data, it will find resistance with those who are entrenched in previous methods/theories. An example of what I mean: Albert Einstein's SR/GR Theories took years before they were fully accepted within the scientific community of the early 1900s. They were not just blindly accepted overnight by others.


Einstein moved out of the patent office in Berne in less than three years after Max Planck made it known to the physics community in Germany that Einstein was a star. I think he had a professor position by 1907 which was about 2.5 years after he published his five outstanding physics papers. After Eddington verified his General Relativity prediction of how light was bent by gravity around the sun, he became a world star. That was in 1919. Even before that Einstein became a famous theoretical physicist in Germany (in particular) in in Europe. He was bottled up in Germany during the Great War but Eddington in England saw to it that Einstein became known. Eddington completely bought General Relativity after it was published in 1916. Eddington had to get the aid of a neutral to get a copy of Einstein's papers out of Germany since England and Germany were at war with each other. Eddington who was a Quaker and conscientious objector got flack from the Establishment for his support of Einstein.


_________________
Socrates' Last Words: I drank what!! !?????


LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

16 Jun 2016, 10:08 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
BaalChatzaf wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
Anachron wrote:
I feel that an entirely new system of thought will be required.


I agree. However, there is a catch in all of this. Whomever does come up with the new system will face an uphill battle to get it accepted by other scientists if it cannot be proved absolute by our technology.


theories are acceptable precisely because they are supported by experiment. Choosing a theory is NOT a popularity contest. Quantum Physics is the all time champion theory for making correct predictions of all phenomena except for gravitation. Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is the all time champion for predicting gravitational effects and phenomena. Every time the GPS locates you to within ten feet of your location that is yet another corroboration of The Special Theory of Relativity and the General Theory of Relativity.

If you want a new theory then cook one up that predicts better than Quantum Theory or Einstein's relativity theories.


You have missed my point that I was commenting on. When one comes up with a radical new scientific method/theory, no matter how good or accurate it is with experimental data, it will find resistance with those who are entrenched in previous methods/theories. An example of what I mean: Albert Einstein's SR/GR Theories took years before they were fully accepted within the scientific community of the early 1900s. They were not just blindly accepted overnight by others.


Another example ...

The QM models are still divided on whether Einstein's "hidden variables" exist or not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_variable_theory

I'm in the Einstein camp. I believe in determinism.



LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

16 Jun 2016, 10:39 am

Deltaville wrote:
Any physics enthusiasts? Absent any realistic theorem of quantum gravity, leaves physicists (such as myself) in great speculation of how quantum mechanical processes can be be reconciled with our current understanding.

Doesn't the quantum wave function already capture the embedded mechanical processes of quantum gravity?

So, there is no conflict, but rather just a lack of understanding ?



LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

17 Jun 2016, 7:06 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
Any physics enthusiasts? Absent any realistic theorem of quantum gravity, leaves physicists (such as myself) in great speculation of how quantum mechanical processes can be be reconciled with our current understanding.

Doesn't the quantum wave function already capture the embedded mechanical processes of quantum gravity?

So, there is no conflict, but rather just a lack of understanding ?


I didn't mean to end discussion here.

It seems like the math of the quantum wave function *already* captures the effects of quantum gravity.

So, it seems like that's the first place to start.

To find new math that can "plug in" to it, and have it give us the same results.



BaalChatzaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,050
Location: Monroe Twp. NJ

17 Jun 2016, 7:26 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
Any physics enthusiasts? Absent any realistic theorem of quantum gravity, leaves physicists (such as myself) in great speculation of how quantum mechanical processes can be be reconciled with our current understanding.

Doesn't the quantum wave function already capture the embedded mechanical processes of quantum gravity?

So, there is no conflict, but rather just a lack of understanding ?


I didn't mean to end discussion here.

It seems like the math of the quantum wave function *already* captures the effects of quantum gravity.

So, it seems like that's the first place to start.

To find new math that can "plug in" to it, and have it give us the same results.


What quantum gravity. No one has ever detected a graviton. In addition even with gravitons (a hypothetical particle) quantum gravity theories are still plagued by infinities. The only "cure" has been String Theory and Loop Gravitation neither of which have any empirical corroboration. They are just mathematically fancy speculations.


_________________
Socrates' Last Words: I drank what!! !?????


VisInsita
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 375
Location: Finland

19 Jun 2016, 1:51 pm

Deltaville wrote:
Any physics enthusiasts? Absent any realistic theorem of quantum gravity, leaves physicists (such as myself) in great speculation of how quantum mechanical processes can be be reconciled with our current understanding.

The Schrodinger formula enables us to derive time constraints on quantum functions, but it fall short on the ability to amalgamate Einsteinian relativity to QM processes.

Here are some options ranked from the worst to the best (in my opinion).

Wheeler-Dewitt: Worst in my opinion. No time function, and can be twisted in anyway you want by any given Hamiltonian Constraint.

String Theory: Untestable. Too many solutions as well.

Einstein-Cartan: OK, but too many difficulties with reconciliation of time as well. Too much emphasis on spin and momentum than the real issue.

Quantum Loop Gravity: The best in my opinion. Divides space time into parts that can allows quantum mechanical processes into a workable paradigm.

What do you think is the best candidate for Quantum Gravity?


I don't know s*t about the math in physics.

But I'd say the best candidate isn't on the lists yet.



slave
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Age: 113
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,420
Location: Dystopia Planetia

19 Jun 2016, 6:21 pm

BaalChatzaf wrote:

Einstein moved out of the patent office in Berne in less than three years after Max Planck made it known to the physics community in Germany that Einstein was a star. I think he had a professor position by 1907 which was about 2.5 years after he published his five outstanding physics papers. After Eddington verified his General Relativity prediction of how light was bent by gravity around the sun, he became a world star. That was in 1919. Even before that Einstein became a famous theoretical physicist in Germany (in particular) in in Europe. He was bottled up in Germany during the Great War but Eddington in England saw to it that Einstein became known. Eddington completely bought General Relativity after it was published in 1916. Eddington had to get the aid of a neutral to get a copy of Einstein's papers out of Germany since England and Germany were at war with each other. Eddington who was a Quaker and conscientious objector got flack from the Establishment for his support of Einstein.


Danke! :nerdy: :D
did not know that :D