Is it just me?

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02 Aug 2014, 8:09 pm

Maybe it can be difficult to detect an entry by sufficiently skilled burglars, but it doesn't make my point about detecting devices plugged into the OBD-II or EOBD port any less valid.

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eric76
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02 Aug 2014, 9:25 pm

Kurgan wrote:

Maybe it can be difficult to detect an entry by sufficiently skilled burglars, but it doesn't make my point about detecting devices plugged into the OBD-II or EOBD port any less valid.

So if someone plugged into a device into yours tonight, how long before you would notice it? Do you check it daily to make sure that there is nothing plugged in?

If someone with the means to do so really wanted to be able to control your car, what would keep them from developing and installing a separate, hidden port where you would never think to look?

It wouldn't even have to be a burglar -- it could be someone you leave your car with for a couple of hours to change the oil.

auntblabby
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02 Aug 2014, 9:26 pm

soon enough all this high-tech will be but a vague memory, 2nd and third hand.

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02 Aug 2014, 9:56 pm

eric76 wrote:

So if someone plugged into a device into yours tonight, how long before you would notice it? Do you check it daily to make sure that there is nothing plugged in?

The EOBD on a Peugeot Expert is just left of the steering wheel. I'd notice it immediately after opening the door.

Quote:

If someone with the means to do so really wanted to be able to control your car, what would keep them from developing and installing a separate, hidden port where you would never think to look?

It wouldn't even have to be a burglar -- it could be someone you leave your car with for a couple of hours to change the oil.

Good luck making a separate port and connecting it to the ECU in the time it would take to change the oil (i.e. minutes).

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ruveyn
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03 Aug 2014, 8:40 am

auntblabby wrote:

soon enough all this high-tech will be but a vague memory, 2nd and third hand.

You mean civilization would end and we will revert to primitive technology?

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04 Aug 2014, 11:05 am

Kurgan wrote:

Good luck making a separate port and connecting it to the ECU in the time it would take to change the oil (i.e. minutes).

Seriously? The CAN bus is a 2-wire bus, you don't need a port, you just need a couple of alligator clips. Also, the engine CAN bus runs into the transmission, which means you likely don't have to pop the hood to get access, you just need some amount of time underneath the car while it's unattended.

Also, what's this BS about OBD-II bluetooth dongles being the size of cell phones? I have one permanently connected to both of my cars, and they're about the size of a pack of gum and easily fit behind the body panel covering the port.

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eric76
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04 Aug 2014, 2:28 pm

Good point.

If there was much of a demand for devices to add a separate port, we can be sure that they would soon available and would likely take just a few minutes to install.

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04 Aug 2014, 2:34 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

Seriously?

I'm not the one who made that suggestion.

Quote:

The CAN bus is a 2-wire bus, you don't need a port, you just need a couple of alligator clips. Also, the engine CAN bus runs into the transmission, which means you likely don't have to pop the hood to get access, you just need some amount of time underneath the car while it's unattended.

The ground clearance of most cars and the fact that you'd have to remove several parts (sometimes the transmission itself needs to be removed) makes this difficult, never mind the fact that only someone incredibly stupid would jack up the car and attempt to do so without the gear typically found at a workshop. Messing with the CAN bus wires from below takes longer time than changing the oil (especially given that it's laid out differently for each car brand), and I'm aware of the fact that you do not need a port.

Quote:

Also, what's this BS about OBD-II bluetooth dongles being the size of cell phones? I have one permanently connected to both of my cars, and they're about the size of a pack of gum and easily fit behind the body panel covering the port.

Depends on what kind of device we're talking about. It doesn't invalidate my point on how it would be easy to detect a device like that in the car, though.

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sliqua-jcooter
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04 Aug 2014, 3:25 pm

Kurgan wrote:

Depends on what kind of device we're talking about. It doesn't invalidate my point on how it would be easy to detect a device like that in the car, though.

Yes, because we all commonly have xray vision and check through plastic body panels for stuff. The dongle on my sedan has a piece that covers up the port and dongle, so unless you take that panel off and check underneath, you wouldn't know it's there. The one on my SUV isn't visible unless you bend down a couple feet to check it - so you have to specifically be looking for something there.

I call absolute flaming BS if you check your car's diagnostic port every time you start your car.

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Kurgan
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04 Aug 2014, 5:23 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

Depends on what kind of device we're talking about. It doesn't invalidate my point on how it would be easy to detect a device like that in the car, though.

Call "absolute flaming BS" all you want. The gap between the cover on a Peugeot Expert/Fiat Scudo and the port itself is so small that you won't be able to place a lego brick there, let alone a dongle (and this layout is by no means exceptional; many cars are like that). It's immediately visible once you enter the car, at about knee height, just right of the coin holder.

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Brainfre3ze_93
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06 Aug 2014, 12:43 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

Brainfre3ze_93 wrote:

Or does the idea of automatic cars aka " smart cars " terrified anyone? Just the thought of not being the one driving a car, and with technology becoming more and more integrated with the newest models. The thought of some complete stranger with the know how, could hack into the cars' engine, brakes, etc... virtually disabling the car entirely, and not being able to do anything about it. I know some people who are excited about what the future could hold for us, but I can't help but feel terrified.

This threshold has already been passed. Basically any car manufactured after ~2007 in the US can be completely hacked and controlled by remote without extensive modification.

Chances are good that your car already has most of the following:

Power (aka computer controlled or computer controllable) steering ("hey look, my car can parallel park itself!")
Anti-lock brakes (controlled by computer)
Fuel Injection w/ computer controlled throttle
Power door locks, windows, and ignition (remote start, and remote stop).

As of right now, I doubt my car has any of that. It was manufactured in 2002, and honestly I'm still surprised it still passes inspection every couple of months.

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