How should I try to deal with this quirky BIOS?!

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I have two of these BIOSTAR "P4M800-M7A Ver. 7.0" boards (plus a spare (Ver. 1.0) in a nearby box) ...

http://www.biostar-usa.com/app/en-us/mb ... hp?S_ID=93

One is right here in/as my own primary machine, and the other is in the machine I am now trying to finish up for one of my grandchildren.

Edit: My board is running an Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 2.66GHz 2.66 GHz (dual core) 64-bit processor, and
my grandson's is running a Genuine Intel(R) CPU 3.60GHz 3.61 GHz HyperThreading (enabled in BIOS) processor.

In the past, several people here have been very helpful to me in relation to the BIOS on my own board (that actually used to be the one now on the shelf), and now I have just one more set of questions actually related to each and all of these boards ...

... but first, here are the specific facts of my current trouble:

1) These boards (or maybe I should say their BIOS options and settings) are quirky (drive order) and difficult to handle when internal PATA and SATA drives are connected at the same time, but I have finally learned how to deal with that;

2) These boards occasionally "lock up" either during startup, reboot and/or shutdown whenever certain USB cards (WiFi) or adapters (such as a certain USB to PATA (mini) adapter I use) remain connected during startup, reboot and/or shutdown;

3) USB ports connected to the motherboard seem to let/cause that to happen just as much as internal PCI USB cards (adding USB ports to the machine);

4) When that does happen, I sometimes have to pull the BIOS battery and begin all over again in order to get my first PATA (boot) drive back into the mix;

5) The BIOS chip in each board has been updated with the most-recent and correct file from BIOSTAR;
Note: Nevertheless, the board in my grandson's machine has now just recently somehow left its BIOS options "unhighlighted" and inaccessible (and I plan to try to "re-update" that BIOS (and I do also have a spare chip available, if needed)).
Edit: Removing the BIOS battery for a few minutes resulted in nothing whatsoever being reset!

6) The ports of internal PCI USB cards (adding USB ports to the machine) do not do as well at handling my external "USB to PATA (mini) adapter" as do the USB ports connected directly to the motherboard (and I am pretty sure that is the fault of the Belkin PCI card).

And now with all of that considered, what might anyone have to suggest here:

1) Should I set "System BIOS Cacheable" to "Enabled" or to "Disabled"?

2) Should I set "Assign IRQ For VGA" to "Enabled" or to "Disabled"?
Note: Video card is AGP and is set for "Init Display First" (with "Assign IRQ For VGA" also enabled only as a leftover setting previously needed for Windows 98 while multi-booting).

3) Should I set "Assign IRQ For USB" to "Enabled" or to "Disabled"?
Note: "OnChip EHCI Controller" is set to "Enabled".

4) Should "USB Emulation" be "ON" or "OFF"?
Note: I have a PS/2 keyboard (and mouse) attached and sitting on the side to use in any "emergency" whenever my USB keyboard might not get acknowledged as it should while pressing "Delete" to get into BIOS during startup (or when my USB mouse might stop working for any reason (such as during driver changes or updates)).

@CloudWalker (and/or anyone else, of course): Please help!

Update:

>> 5) The BIOS chip in each board has been updated with the most-recent and correct file from BIOSTAR;
>> Note: Nevertheless, the board in my grandson's machine has now just recently somehow left its BIOS options
>> "unhighlighted" and inaccessible (and I plan to try to "re-update" that BIOS (and I do also have a spare chip available,
>> if needed)).
>> Edit: Removing the BIOS battery for a few minutes resulted in nothing whatsoever being reset!
Note: That might have been because I had forgotten to disconnect all power to the machine at that time.

Following a re-flash of the machine's BIOS:

1) "System BIOS Cacheable" is now "Enabled";
2) "Assign IRQ For VGA" is now "Disabled";
3) "Assign IRQ For USB" is now "Disabled";
Note: "OnChip EHCI Controller" is set to "Enabled".
4) "USB Emulation" is "ON".

Note: I disconnected the internal USB to PATA adapter during the re-flash.

Following all of the above, Windows 7 did not boot a second time around so I could re-connect the internal USB to PATA adapter ...

... and it has just now finished repairing itself. So, now we will see what might happen next ...

Hi!

Haven't posted on here in awhile, but I happen to write BIOS software for a living, so I thought I might reply =)

1) The system BIOS cacheable option shouldn't be affecting anything other than BIOS POST speed (and should be left enabled).
2 & 3) I'm not sure what those options mean in this context, but best to leave them the defaults
Also, OnChip EHCI controller shouldn't ever be an issue (and can be left enabled)
4) USB emulation can be problematic on a number of motherboards, so if you're having quirky problems (especially with performance issues in the OS or possibly odd system hangs), disabling this can't hurt.

I can't speak to the quality of the BIOS, but I'm assuming it is an Award one, and as such, setting the boot priority can be a pain, but clearing CMOS with the battery is always useful =) If there isn't a CMOS clear jumper on the board, sometimes it's good to short the contacts on the battery clip after you have removed it to ensure the caps on the board are fully discharged.

One other thing... it appears that this board has a VIA chipset. Historically, those can be very quirky, and often have various performance issues, but there isn't much to do about that, other than using the latest drivers.

Sorry for the ramble, but please feel free to ask me any questions you'd like!

@ainvar: I thank you very much!

It actually must be enabled for everything to work correctly here (in at least Win7, I think), but I had to disable it while I still had Win98 in my multi-boot mix.


Okay, I will try that ... and I actually do suspect that might help. My USB keyboard might not work for getting into Setup at startup after I do that, but I do already have a PS/2 keyboard connected and sitting here on top of the machine for that very kind of reason.


Yes, it surely can, and especially here with this particular mobo having SATA and PATA drives, both, connected. But since my grandson's machine is going to be there with him 900 mikes away from me, I have only installed/connected a single SATA drive and then added a second drive (a PATA the BIOS never sees) by using an internal USB adapter plugged into a PCI USB card. By doing that, I am almost certain he will never have the kinds of drive order and recognition problems I have had here in my own machine.


Yes, and I have learned to go straight to manufacturers' sites to see about that kind of thing. MS Update has occasionally really messed me with up with some of its "driver updates".

Hi, leejosepho.

The first thing that struck me was the need to clear the CMOS. How often does that happen? Even if a computer hangs, the CMOS data shouldn't be affected.

When was the last time you replace the CMOS battery? In most BIOS, there's a page that shows voltages and temperatures, CMOS battery voltage should be among one of them. Is it normal? While you are there, have a look at other voltages too.

Also what PSU are you using? I vaguely remember you bought a new PSU sometime ago. So is the computer for your grandson using a different PSU? Does the hangup happen more often on the computer with the weaker PSU?

If you haven't do this before, I'll also recommend you to run the "Memory Diagnostics Tool" to check the RAM.


As for the BIOS settings, most of them shouldn't matter. But since your computer seems to be a bit unstable, it doesn't hurt to try.

System BIOS Cacheable:
Like ainvar said, it'll only improve POST speed and the difference should be negligible. Disabled is the safer setting, so you may want to give it a try.

Assign IRQ For VGA:
I think it's only applicable to PCI disaply card. It does nothing if no PCI display card is installed, and if you do install one, it's almost always needed. So IMO, set it to enabled.

Assign IRQ For USB:
Few USB devices actually use IRQ, but unless you are short of IRQ, enabling it is the safer and potentially faster setting.

OnChip EHCI Controller:
Disabling it will make your USB devices to work at 1.0 speed (1.5/12 Mb/s). A loooot slower than 480 Mb/s of 2.0 speed. I guess Win98 doesn't support USB 2.0 natively, but I'm not sure why your Win7 is having problem with it disabled. Anyway, you should leave it enabled unless there's compelling reason not to.

USB Emulation:
Since you have a PS/2 keyboard handy, it doesn't hurt to try disabling it.


If you have installed any PCI card, another thing to check is IRQ sharing. PCI devices are required to handle sharing, but some cards just don't play well with others. You can view IRQ in Device Manager, View → Resources by type. If any card is sharing IRQ with another device, move it to another slot to see if it's more stable.

Hey! Really glad you dropped in!


On my grandson's machine, and with all of this being very recent, I had to do that twice in order to be able to make any BIOS changes since all the options had become "opaque" and I could not do anything with them.

On my own machine, I had to do the same (twice recently), but for a different reason: Rather than having my options become opaque, I had lost recognition and access for my first (boot) drive and could not get the BIOS to see it again until after I had cleared the CMOS.

Note: I am now fairly certain all of this was caused by an external USB-to-PATA (2.5" drive) I had been using to copy some drivers and stuff over into my grandson's machine ... and as long as we are talking about that adapter, let me tell you about this:

I have just now gone in and made all the changes you have suggested, and I have noticed an USB option I had not seen before. So, I now have "USB Emulation" set to "KB/MS" with "NO support USB storage" (rather than having everything set to "ON") ...

... and since all of these recent problems have happened while I was using that USB-to-PATA adapter, I am betting the "NO support USB storage" is going to make the difference here.


The battery in each machine is new, and my battery is showing 3.21V.


Note: These first ones look a bit low to me:

CPU Vcore >> 1.32V
+3.3 V >> 3.18V
+5.0 V >> 4.89V
DRAM >> 2.57V

CPU Voltage Regulator
+0.15
+0.10
+0.05
Default

DDR Voltage Regulator
2.95
2.85
2.75
2.65

Spread Spectrum
Disable
-0.35%
-0.50%
-0.75%
-1.00%

AutoDetect PCI Clk
Enabled

CPU Host Clock
133MHz


Edit: Antec BP430 (about three months old) in my machine

Note: I have a new "Super Quiet" Zalman 360 for my grandson's machine


No, and like I have said, I am now real sure all of this trouble came from that USB-to-PATA adapter.


I will definitely do that.

Changing posting format here ...

>>> As for the BIOS settings ...
>>> System BIOS Cacheable: Disabled is the safer setting

Done.
========

>>> Assign IRQ For VGA:

I have "Disabled" for now since I am not using it and do not plan to ever do so.
========

>>> Assign IRQ For USB: enabling it is the safer and potentially faster setting.

Done.
========

>>> OnChip EHCI Controller: Disabling it will make your USB devices to work at 1.0 speed (1.5/12 Mb/s).

Yeah, I found that out the hard way! So, now again "Enabled".
========

>>> USB Emulation: Since you have a PS/2 keyboard handy, it doesn't hurt to try disabling it.

If the "KB/MS" with "NO support USB storage" settings do not fix things here, I will try that next.
========

>>> If you have installed any PCI card, another thing to check is IRQ sharing.

I have checked, made one change, and each device now has it own IRQ.
========

>>> If any card is sharing IRQ with another device, move it to another slot to see if it's more stable.

The PCI LAN and PCI Modem had been sharing, and I have just disabled the modem.
========

Note: I have a new power supply for my grandson's machine, and I will take a look at all those voltages after installing that power supply ...

... and I thank you!

It's definitely worth trying. If the usb disk is for data only, you may also want to disable boot from USB devices in BIOS.


Unless you have reason to worry about EMI, Disable will allow a more stable clock signal.

Another thing to keep in mind is that many OEMs (HP, Gateway, Acer, and the like) will disable many BIOS functions to maximise stability in the final product.

Yes, I have dealt with a variety of those, and there are very few options for tweaking much of anything!


Oh yes. After all the trouble I had a few month ago, that has been disabled for quite a while now.

Edit: ... and I almost forgot the most important part here:

That "NO support USB storage" selection has solved my BIOS corruption problem!


What would be a reason to worry there? Both of these machines are mini-towers, and there are a lot of leads and cables packed into them ... or, does EMI come from somewhere else?

As an aside: I used to do a lot of arc welding, and I had to be careful about coiled cables on some of the older machines getting hot and making "crop circles" in the grinding dust on the floor!

Here is another look at voltages, include some numbers that look pretty odd to me:

===========================
Hardware monitor ITE IT87
Voltage 0 1.36 Volts [0x55] (CPU VCORE)
Voltage 1 2.16 Volts [0x87] (VIN1)
Voltage 2 3.18 Volts [0xC7] (+3.3V)
Voltage 3 4.89 Volts [0xB6] (+5V)
Voltage 4 10.37 Volts [0xA2] (+12V)
Voltage 5 -6.46 Volts [0x65] (-12V)
Voltage 6 -8.38 Volts [0x83] (-5V)
Voltage 7 4.70 Volts [0xAF] (+5V VCCH)
Voltage 8 3.22 Volts [0xC9] (VBAT)
===========================

Here are the voltages in my grandson's dual-boot machine with the new Zalman 360 PSU ...

========================================

Win2K Hardware monitor ITE IT87
Voltage 0 1.33 Volts [0x53] (CPU VCORE)
Voltage 1 2.46 Volts [0x9A] (VIN1)
Voltage 2 3.34 Volts [0xD1] (+3.3V)
Voltage 3 4.97 Volts [0xB9] (+5V)
Voltage 4 10.43 Volts [0xA3] (+12V)
Voltage 5 -6.53 Volts [0x66] (-12V)
Voltage 6 -8.38 Volts [0x83] (-5V)
Voltage 7 4.76 Volts [0xB1] (+5V VCCH)
Voltage 8 3.20 Volts [0xC8] (VBAT)

========================================

Win7 Hardware monitor ITE IT87
Voltage 0 1.33 Volts [0x53] (CPU VCORE)
Voltage 1 2.11 Volts [0x84] (VIN1)
Voltage 2 3.12 Volts [0xC3] (+3.3V)
Voltage 3 5.00 Volts [0xBA] (+5V)
Voltage 4 10.50 Volts [0xA4] (+12V)
Voltage 5 -6.53 Volts [0x66] (-12V)
Voltage 6 -8.83 Volts [0x8A] (-5V)
Voltage 7 4.73 Volts [0xB0] (+5V VCCH)
Voltage 8 3.20 Volts [0xC8] (VBAT)

========================================

The PSU in my own machine is a 430, but these voltages from a 360 appear to be better!?

Note: My own machine only has one more SATA drive than this one, and the fans are about the same in each machine.

Glad you nailed the problem.

When you want to get the FCC stamp. I don't know how FCC set the legal limit, but supposedly it's so low such trick is needed to pass the test.


How much power does that thing use? It sounds like a lot if the cable can get so hot.

For the voltages, I think it's better to check with another program first. It's hard to believe both PSUs are outputing only 10V on the 12V rail.

Here is a screen shot from the latest free version of SIW:



It looks to me like the earlier report from HWMonitor -- http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html -- is accurate.

I will try SIW in my grandson's machine in another day or so.