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MDD123
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25 Feb 2012, 11:57 am

I've come across the topic of free energy or zero point energy from activist sites. Supposedly, Nikola Tesla made the original device only to be shut down by the federal government and JP Morgan. As a lay person, I can't imagine how this concept of free energy would work, and am wondering if anyone with a qualified opinion on energy has even heard of free energy or zero point energy, is this another conspiracy theory?



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25 Feb 2012, 12:27 pm

From This Wikipedia Article:

Wikipedia wrote:
Zero-point energy is the lowest possible energy that a quantum mechanical physical system may have; it is the energy of its ground state. All quantum mechanical systems undergo fluctuations even in their ground state and have an associated zero-point energy, a consequence of their wave-like nature. The uncertainty principle requires every physical system to have a zero-point energy greater than the minimum of its classical potential well, even at absolute zero. For example, liquid helium does not freeze under atmospheric pressure at any temperature because of its zero-point energy.

...

Much attention has been given to reputable science suggesting that zero-point-energy density is infinite, but in quantum theory, zero-point energy is a minimum energy below which a thermodynamic system can never go. Thus according to the standard quantum-theoretic viewpoint, none of this energy can be withdrawn without altering the system to a different form in which the system has a lower zero-point energy.

...

Even though the zero-point energy is theoretically infinite, there is as yet no practical evidence to suggest that infinite amounts of zero-point energy are available for use, that zero-point energy can be withdrawn for free, or that zero-point energy can be used in violation of conservation of energy.

While ZPE is real, there has so far been no valid empirical demonstration of how to exploit this principle in a useful manner. The dozens of YouTube videos all seem to involve some form of deliberate trickery, or a complete misunderstanding of what is actually occurring.



RazorEddie
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25 Feb 2012, 12:57 pm

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. In other words you can't get more energy out than you put in. The term 'zero point energy' is used a lot by crackpots and fraudsters because it sounds good. The same goes for 'over unity' and other perpetual motion ideas. The world is desperate for energy and we are rapidly heading towards an energy crisis. If someone discovered a legitimate source of virtually unlimited energy the world's governments would do their utmost to see it put into practice.

In quantum theory, zero-point energy is a minimum energy below which a thermodynamic system can never go. Thus according to the standard quantum-theoretic viewpoint, none of this energy can be withdrawn without altering the system to a different form in which the system has a lower zero-point energy.

For example helium remains liquid at atmospheric pressure even at absolute zero. Zero point energy prevents it turning into a solid (solids have less energy than liquids). You would have to fundamentally change the helium's nature to make it freeze and release some of that energy.


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ruveyn
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25 Feb 2012, 2:36 pm

MDD123 wrote:
I've come across the topic of free energy or zero point energy from activist sites. Supposedly, Nikola Tesla made the original device only to be shut down by the federal government and JP Morgan. As a lay person, I can't imagine how this concept of free energy would work, and am wondering if anyone with a qualified opinion on energy has even heard of free energy or zero point energy, is this another conspiracy theory?


Look up Cassimir Effect. Zero point energy is as real as rain. But we have no technology for mining it and even if we did, it would still cost something. TANSTAAFL.

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25 Feb 2012, 3:00 pm

ruveyn wrote:
MDD123 wrote:
I've come across the topic of free energy or zero point energy from activist sites. Supposedly, Nikola Tesla made the original device only to be shut down by the federal government and JP Morgan. As a lay person, I can't imagine how this concept of free energy would work, and am wondering if anyone with a qualified opinion on energy has even heard of free energy or zero point energy, is this another conspiracy theory?


Look up Cassimir Effect. Zero point energy is as real as rain. But we have no technology for mining it and even if we did, it would still cost something. TANSTAAFL.

ruveyn


Casimir Effect



MDD123
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25 Feb 2012, 3:41 pm

It helps if I understand what zero point energy is lol. Those YouTube videos looked a little too good to be true. So from what I understand, ZPE is found only in the vaccum of space as fluctuating EM waves, and not enough is understood about it to even consider energy extraction.



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25 Feb 2012, 3:50 pm

As a rule of thumb, when people start invoking Tesla they are probably cranks.



ruveyn
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25 Feb 2012, 7:03 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
As a rule of thumb, when people start invoking Tesla they are probably cranks.


Not always. After all we do have high voltage Tesla coils in operation and alternating current generators and motors were mostly invented by Tesla. When the talks turns to Death Rays then you may have a point.

Tesla was 1. An aetherist. But there is no aether. 2. He did not accept fully the theory of Herz-Maxwell Electromagnetic field waves.

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26 Feb 2012, 3:59 pm

There are two cases I have heard of where people have reduced their home electricity bills with simple power-scavengers, and been prosecuted for their pains. The first was from BBC long-wave Crystal Palace and he was found guilty of not owning a wireless licence. The more recent case was from BBC Droitwich and he was found guilty of stealing energy, the laws having been updated (I think primarily to protect the telephone network from power-theft).

Holding a fluorescent tube near a power-line or a transmitter demonstrates the principle, without much risk of prosecution. Any competent charlatan could easily fool quite sceptical and intelligent onlookers that they have discovered some other source of energy.



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26 Feb 2012, 4:24 pm

There is a web site on the internet - which provides plans for putting up a antenna above the roof and running a piece of wire to some type of Tesla coil and you can build a circuit and it will make enough power - from the static electric from radio waves - to charge a cell phone..

That is one for instance of getting something for nothing.

Another is - I worked for a electric company changing meters and inspecting poles.
I once observed where someone knew the voltage of the high power lines going from the power plant.
They climbed the poles and strung a length of copper wire between the poles on insulators and ran it down into their home - without any electric meter and got free electric.

The electric company knows if we put X amount of mega watts in one end, X amount of mega watts comes out the other.
When there is a loss - they have to figure out where it is going.
Broken insulator, poor conductor etc.
When the guy got caught - it cost him $100,000 for theft of service. They not only charged him for what he stole - which was pennies - but what they figured they had lost over the life of the tower - since they could not determine when he installed the wire.
So in the long run - he too didn't get anything for free.



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26 Feb 2012, 4:47 pm

Getting something for free.

A radio or television station transmitter / antenna works on just that principal.

You inject X amount of watts into the antenna, it radiates and the customer puts up a TV antenna and receives X amount of micro-volts of power.
Antenna's are a electrostaticlly charged device.

Here is the neat part -
All signals reduce at the square of the distance away.
1/2 - 1/4 - 1/5 - 1/6 - 1/8 until finally the signal drops down into the noise and is lost forever.
But - lets say there is .0008 microvolts of power at your antenna for CH 6.
Regardless of how many other people has a antenna up in the air, or how many people are tuned to channel 6 - each antenna will have .0008 micro volts on it.

In a city of one million people in the 1970's - that was a lot of antenna's.



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26 Feb 2012, 5:41 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
As a rule of thumb, when people start invoking Tesla they are probably cranks.


Not always. After all we do have high voltage Tesla coils in operation and alternating current generators and motors were mostly invented by Tesla. When the talks turns to Death Rays then you may have a point.

Tesla was 1. An aetherist. But there is no aether. 2. He did not accept fully the theory of Herz-Maxwell Electromagnetic field waves.

ruveyn

He certainly was a visionnary at least. Having the idea of the internet and wireless electricity way before they became true. He should have been a sci-fi writer.


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ruveyn
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27 Feb 2012, 5:42 pm

Tollorin wrote:
He certainly was a visionnary at least. Having the idea of the internet and wireless electricity way before they became true. He should have been a sci-fi writer.


He was an inventor and a doer, not a teller of tales.

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28 Feb 2012, 3:55 am

ruveyn wrote:
He was an inventor and a doer, not a teller of tales.

ruveyn


He did tell a few in his time, and got paid well on the promise of them. Some of his writings, from the mundane to the miraculous, are listed here: http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/contents.htm#FSTA



ruveyn
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28 Feb 2012, 4:12 am

Tollorin wrote:
He certainly was a visionnary at least. Having the idea of the internet and wireless electricity way before they became true. He should have been a sci-fi writer.


Here was the first genuine and actual internet. The year is 1858.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Atlan ... le_Map.jpg

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