Page 1 of 2 [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Deltaville
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Dec 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 941
Location: SystemShock Universe

05 Jun 2016, 6:32 pm

Any physics enthusiasts? Absent any realistic theorem of quantum gravity, leaves physicists (such as myself) in great speculation of how quantum mechanical processes can be be reconciled with our current understanding.

The Schrodinger formula enables us to derive time constraints on quantum functions, but it fall short on the ability to amalgamate Einsteinian relativity to QM processes.

Here are some options ranked from the worst to the best (in my opinion).

Wheeler-Dewitt: Worst in my opinion. No time function, and can be twisted in anyway you want by any given Hamiltonian Constraint.

String Theory: Untestable. Too many solutions as well.

Einstein-Cartan: OK, but too many difficulties with reconciliation of time as well. Too much emphasis on spin and momentum than the real issue.

Quantum Loop Gravity: The best in my opinion. Divides space time into parts that can allows quantum mechanical processes into a workable paradigm.

What do you think is the best candidate for Quantum Gravity?


_________________
Sebastian

"Don't forget to floss." - Darkwing Duck


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

05 Jun 2016, 8:29 pm

I predict that a realm of physics beyond (beneath?) Quantum Mechanics (QM) will be found responsible for the phenomenon we now know as "gravity". This realm will be to QM what QM is to Classical Mechanics.

What we call "gravity" is just too weak per mass unit to be adequately described by QM.


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


Ban-Dodger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jun 2011
Age: 1028
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,820
Location: Возможно в будущее к Россию идти... можеть быть...

05 Jun 2016, 9:28 pm

Was there not a time when Hawkings was said to have stated that Black Holes are just Information ? Well, more specifically, Information-Leaks. Some people may promote this existence as a Virtual-Reality as a result.


_________________
Pay me for my signature. 私の署名ですか❓お前の買うなければなりません。Mon autographe nécessite un paiement. Которые хочет мою автографу, у тебя нужно есть деньги сюда. Bezahlst du mich, wenn du meine Unterschrift wollen.


Anachron
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2015
Posts: 431
Location: Within & Beyond

05 Jun 2016, 10:15 pm

What is the difference between gravity and absorbtion?


And, I doubt counting will reveal the absolute nature of reality. I feel that an entirely new system of thought will be required.



CryptoNerd
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Age: 1936
Gender: Male
Posts: 229
Location: The bash shell

07 Jun 2016, 7:53 am

I'm not a physics person, but I am still amused at how regular people misunderstand physics. For example...

Image



BaalChatzaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,050
Location: Monroe Twp. NJ

08 Jun 2016, 6:43 pm

[quote="Deltaville"]Any physics enthusiasts? Absent any realistic theorem of quantum gravity, leaves physicists (such as myself) in great speculation of how quantum mechanical processes can be be reconciled with our current understanding.

The Schrodinger formula enables us to derive time constraints on quantum functions, but it fall short on the ability to amalgamate Einsteinian relativity to QM processes.

Here are some options ranked from the worst to the best (in my opinion).

Wheeler-Dewitt: Worst in my opinion. No time function, and can be twisted in anyway you want by any given Hamiltonian Constraint.

String Theory: Untestable. Too many solutions as well.

Einstein-Cartan: OK, but too many difficulties with reconciliation of time as well. Too much emphasis on spin and momentum than the real issue.

Quantum Loop Gravity: The best in my opinion. Divides space time into parts that can allows quantum mechanical processes into a workable paradigm.

What do you think is the best candidate for Quantum Gravity?[/quote

Where is my graviton????


_________________
Socrates' Last Words: I drank what!! !?????


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

08 Jun 2016, 8:06 pm

Fnord wrote:
I predict that a realm of physics beyond (beneath?) Quantum Mechanics (QM) will be found responsible for the phenomenon we now know as "gravity". This realm will be to QM what QM is to Classical Mechanics. What we call "gravity" is just too weak per mass unit to be adequately described by QM.
NPR posted an article on this topic: "New Physics Beyond The Higgs?"


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


QuantumChemist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,111
Location: Midwest

09 Jun 2016, 8:18 am

Anachron wrote:
I feel that an entirely new system of thought will be required.


I agree. However, there is a catch in all of this. Whomever does come up with the new system will face an uphill battle to get it accepted by other scientists if it cannot be proved absolute by our technology.



BaalChatzaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,050
Location: Monroe Twp. NJ

09 Jun 2016, 8:54 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
Anachron wrote:
I feel that an entirely new system of thought will be required.


I agree. However, there is a catch in all of this. Whomever does come up with the new system will face an uphill battle to get it accepted by other scientists if it cannot be proved absolute by our technology.


theories are acceptable precisely because they are supported by experiment. Choosing a theory is NOT a popularity contest. Quantum Physics is the all time champion theory for making correct predictions of all phenomena except for gravitation. Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is the all time champion for predicting gravitational effects and phenomena. Every time the GPS locates you to within ten feet of your location that is yet another corroboration of The Special Theory of Relativity and the General Theory of Relativity.

If you want a new theory then cook one up that predicts better than Quantum Theory or Einstein's relativity theories.


_________________
Socrates' Last Words: I drank what!! !?????


QuantumChemist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,111
Location: Midwest

10 Jun 2016, 11:15 am

BaalChatzaf wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
Anachron wrote:
I feel that an entirely new system of thought will be required.


I agree. However, there is a catch in all of this. Whomever does come up with the new system will face an uphill battle to get it accepted by other scientists if it cannot be proved absolute by our technology.


theories are acceptable precisely because they are supported by experiment. Choosing a theory is NOT a popularity contest. Quantum Physics is the all time champion theory for making correct predictions of all phenomena except for gravitation. Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is the all time champion for predicting gravitational effects and phenomena. Every time the GPS locates you to within ten feet of your location that is yet another corroboration of The Special Theory of Relativity and the General Theory of Relativity.

If you want a new theory then cook one up that predicts better than Quantum Theory or Einstein's relativity theories.


You have missed my point that I was commenting on. When one comes up with a radical new scientific method/theory, no matter how good or accurate it is with experimental data, it will find resistance with those who are entrenched in previous methods/theories. An example of what I mean: Albert Einstein's SR/GR Theories took years before they were fully accepted within the scientific community of the early 1900s. They were not just blindly accepted overnight by others.



Anachron
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2015
Posts: 431
Location: Within & Beyond

10 Jun 2016, 12:55 pm

I think what QuantumChemist is trying to say is that it matters little if you are right or wrong, you will have to fight the human power system.

Consider what happened to this man:
“That electrical energy can be economically transmitted without wires to any terrestrial distance, I have unmistakably established in numerous observations, experiments and measurements, qualitative and quantitative. These have demonstrated that it is practicable to distribute power from a central plant in unlimited amounts, with a loss not exceeding a small fraction of one percent in the transmission, even to the greatest distance, 12,000 miles – to the opposite end of the globe.” - Nikola Tesla

Tesla was right and yet, we still kill each other for energy. Just finding the solution is not enough.



QuantumChemist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,111
Location: Midwest

10 Jun 2016, 4:12 pm

Yes, that was exactly what I was trying to say in the previous posts. Thank you Anachron.



BaalChatzaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,050
Location: Monroe Twp. NJ

10 Jun 2016, 5:17 pm

Anachron wrote:
I think what QuantumChemist is trying to say is that it matters little if you are right or wrong, you will have to fight the human power system.

Consider what happened to this man:
“That electrical energy can be economically transmitted without wires to any terrestrial distance, I have unmistakably established in numerous observations, experiments and measurements, qualitative and quantitative. These have demonstrated that it is practicable to distribute power from a central plant in unlimited amounts, with a loss not exceeding a small fraction of one percent in the transmission, even to the greatest distance, 12,000 miles – to the opposite end of the globe.” - Nikola Tesla

Tesla was right and yet, we still kill each other for energy. Just finding the solution is not enough.


Tesla was wrong. He did not fully buy Maxwell's Electrodynamics. Electrical energy can be transmitted in straight lines by microwave but it cannot be transmitted through the earth. Tesla had no idea what the magma and the core of the earth were like. No one in his time did. Tesla'a assertion is contrary to know thermodynamics. To get from the energy indicated by the Poynting vector (the cross product of the electrical and magnetic fields) to mechanical energy is a very big loss.


_________________
Socrates' Last Words: I drank what!! !?????


Anachron
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2015
Posts: 431
Location: Within & Beyond

10 Jun 2016, 8:06 pm

BaalChatzaf wrote:
transmitted through the earth.
Where did you get that? I think the idea was to bounce it off of the Earth's Ionisphere.

The point was, that his work was systematically crushed.



Deltaville
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Dec 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 941
Location: SystemShock Universe

11 Jun 2016, 3:35 am

Fnord wrote:

What we call "gravity" is just too weak per mass unit to be adequately described by QM.


I hope you can cite the source of such a laughable claim.


_________________
Sebastian

"Don't forget to floss." - Darkwing Duck


Deltaville
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Dec 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 941
Location: SystemShock Universe

11 Jun 2016, 3:36 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
BaalChatzaf wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
Anachron wrote:
I feel that an entirely new system of thought will be required.


I agree. However, there is a catch in all of this. Whomever does come up with the new system will face an uphill battle to get it accepted by other scientists if it cannot be proved absolute by our technology.


theories are acceptable precisely because they are supported by experiment. Choosing a theory is NOT a popularity contest. Quantum Physics is the all time champion theory for making correct predictions of all phenomena except for gravitation. Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is the all time champion for predicting gravitational effects and phenomena. Every time the GPS locates you to within ten feet of your location that is yet another corroboration of The Special Theory of Relativity and the General Theory of Relativity.

If you want a new theory then cook one up that predicts better than Quantum Theory or Einstein's relativity theories.


You have missed my point that I was commenting on. When one comes up with a radical new scientific method/theory, no matter how good or accurate it is with experimental data, it will find resistance with those who are entrenched in previous methods/theories. An example of what I mean: Albert Einstein's SR/GR Theories took years before they were fully accepted within the scientific community of the early 1900s. They were not just blindly accepted overnight by others.


Actually they were discovered rather quickly when it managed to adequately described the cosmological constant in regards to the redshift of local galaxies.


_________________
Sebastian

"Don't forget to floss." - Darkwing Duck