Hello Everyone!!

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GROAR and welcome, comrade

May I reccomend you consider membership of the UNSC. We are as close to comunism as we can get.... although we do have a dictator, militarily (Me, but only as part of the government, I'm in the process of making a diagram to explain it, I'll PM the stuff to you, if you want)

Military dictatorship is not my style, but I am interested nonetheless, comrade.

Do send details.

you're right about the lib dems being the further left party at the mo (altho wossname's right about it being regional, too - sorry... who posted that?)

what's a neo-con?

Hi Vetivert, a neo-con is another word for a member of the US Republican Party. They preach far-right political views, including:

1) No-one has the right to abortion.
2) Social Security is a waste of money on useless people.
3) It is OK to invade other countries with no reason apart from the aquisition of oil.
$) Greed is good.
5) Islamic people are ALL bad.
6) No homosexuals allowed.
7) God created the world in 7 days.

As you can see their views are extreme and contradictorary. How can a Christian (point 7) oppose Social Security (point 2), since the protection of vulnerable citizens is the foremost of Jesus' teachings. They make no sense , but unfortunately for us, the Republicans are in power in America, and plan to continue their policies.

On the whole im anti-abortion and believe in strict punishment for yobs but on most subjects i am right with you Robert. As well as Jesus clearly being a socialist, how can anyone read "Oliver Twist" by Charles Dickens or watch "Its a Wonderful Life" or (to use the old but true as ever cliche) know that people are dying of starvation in Africa and not think that a more even distribution of resources would be a good idea? Why doesnt George Bush and co go on a righteous crusade to end world poverty instead of invading Iraq to oust a dictator that the west helped impose and in doing so save a lot more lives than Saddam has even dreamed of ending? I suspect that unlike the war with Iraq (lots of money disapearing and hands getting greased as well as a boost in the arms and oil trades keeping GB's powerful friends happy) there just isnt the same capital in throwing money at the paupers. Why would governments want everyone to be alright off anyhow? Who would join the Army in desperation then? Who would do all the lacky jobs for a pittance? The problem with socialism though is that it goes against peoples greedy nature and if any one country became socialist then big business and rich people would just leave, leaving the rest in the country pretty poor at first. Maybe the trick is for people to be more altruistic and get a large part of the world to have socialist governments at the one time. I cant see this happening in my lifetime but is it ever likely to come to fruition? I hope so. There you go folks simple! Next week i will answering that age old question "What is the meaning of life?".lol.

LOL, eamonn.

yeah - if only it WERE that simple. but like most things, it's all complicated, and inter-related, and has ramifications which need to be worked out first.

sometimes, though, i cannot for the life of me see why our so-called leaders can't see how illogical their methods and decisions are. is it me, or is most policy these days (apart from keeping power concentrated in the "traditional" bastions) about short term stuff? and utterly illogical.

oh well - perhaps i should have gone into politics...

erm...

actually, no. ta.

Let us just say one thing: nothing will cure the world in time. In 2012 a fiery apocalypse shall rain from the skies as the Antichrist ascends to power. Millions will die due to him and soon the armies of God shall rise and defeat the dictator and cast him into eternal death in the Abyss along with the Whore of Babylon and Satan himself. ANd a new era shall dawn upon mankind, as all the righteous live in the Eternal glory and light of God Almighty and the wiocked are forced to live in eternal darkness!

Sources?

George Bush. Is that you?

The Bible.

eamonn... LOL !

You are an infidel now.

Its amazing what people get up to when I am away. Talk about Infedels?

Definately sounds like George Bush.

Eamonn, I haven't planned out my Socialist state fully yet. I've only got to the Revolution bit where capitalism is overthrown. I'll get back to you when I've figured out how Socialism should work.

I do not sound like George Bush. He is an infidel.

Yes, that is what I meant, George Bush is an infedel!

Hmm, that is not what a neo-conservative is. The term is a bit misleading. It used to apply to social liberals who defected in the 1970s and 1980s to become hawks against the Soviet Union. At some point recently, the media decdied to start callnig anyone remotely pro-Israel and on the right as a neo-conservative. Then they attributed it to those who were pushing for democracy in Iraq (in contrast to more isolationist styled republicans of the past).

As for your 7 claims: 1) no one has a right to an abortion
this is not the conservative (or neoconservative, there is no difference on social matters) view. The conservate view is that the 4th ammendment does not provide any protection to the medical procedure of abortion any more than it does to eye surgery. Since Roe v. Wade is based on the 4th ammendment extending a "sphere of privacy" which allows abortions legally. The conservative view is that this rulling is unconstitutional (which it is, since the 4th ammendment cannot be construed to pertain to abortion or any other medical practice since the government is neither searching nor siezing property).. and for those of you confused... people cannot be property even if the supreme court claims they are (Dred Scot v. Sanford:: the case which affirmed that once a slave, always a slave and some other nasty things that led to the civil war). Abortion must be decided either at the state or federal government of our constitutional republic.

2) Social Security is a waste of money on useless people.

No, social security will no longer be able to pay out a constant rate as promised as long as it is under government control. The existing government program must remain in tact for anyone who chooses to remain in it (which will be de facto unless they opt-out). For those (currently) young employees who want to remove their money from the government general fund and forfeit assurances that the government will pay the full amount for social security upon retirement, they may do so and invest it in approved private sectors such as in the stock market in mutual funds (which have consistently outgrown government help funds in terms of growth) You must understand there is no "lockbox" where your social security money goes, it is merely placed in the general fund to be spent the year it is collected. When it is time to retire, you will have to depend on workers in the future to raise the funds for your checks. At a point in the near future, there will not be enough new workers to sustain those who retire.

3) It is OK to invade other countries with no reason apart from the aquisition of oil.

The United States has spent in excess of $200,000,000,000 dollars to free iraq and has consequently driven oil prices to record highs. The US government does not take Iraqi oil, but sees that it is sold on the free market (when pipelines aren't being blown up, but thats another story!). Lets see, 200bln dollars + record oil prices = you went to war to pay extreme amounts of money on gasoline? Obviously not. And where is the oil in afghanistan? There is none. (I'm sure Montana has far more... [I'm assuming montana has many mountain ranges and is devoid of oil])

4) Greed is good.

I can only say I disagree. We do live in an adversarial society and it reflects in the composition and structure of the government and free markets.

5) Islamic people are ALL bad.

You are silly if you believe this. In fact, supposedly neo-conservatives are predominately christian and therefore must respect other peoples of the book such as the jews and the muslims. Any suggestion to the contrary is silly. Why would we free two countries with vast Muslim majorities and have our soldiers die for them each and every day?

6) No homosexuals allowed.

I am assuming you do not mean they are in denial that gays exist. I'm not even sure what this means. If you are refering to marriage, then marriage is the congress of a man and a woman for the sake of creating children who they must raise to become productive members of society. It is only biologically possible to create children with a man and a woman. This is why special tax exemptions and the traditional title exist for this special union which is supposed to encourge offspring for the sake of the country and culture.

7) God created the world in 7 days.

I don't know of any neoconservative or conservative that rejects evolution and embraces the bible litteraly. I am sure there are many christian fundementalists who believe in the 7 day theory, however neoconservatism is a deviation from conservatism in matters of foreign policy alone (trading isolationism for interventionism while championing the principles of western liberal democratic principles abroad). There is no religious component. And it would be silly of you to discriminate against people who do believe in creationism just as it would be to speak ill of evolutionists.

Conservatives or Neoconservatives stand for things quite different from what you described