Does my step-daughter have AS?

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Interesting. That sounds almost word for word what i was like as a kid. Except for the stealing and lying part. I swear to you at that age if it was homework i hated, I could easily become distracted with anything else.
I had the exaggerated expressions too. I got in plenty of trouble with my sarcastic voice as a kid also overexaggerated facial expressions.

This is a rough age for this kind of thing. let me help if i can.

Thank you so much for understanding...I feared I would be received incorrectly. Yea...we are certainly exhausted. I want to very much get close to her, but it is difficult to do so. I just want her to grow up and be able to take care of herself. The way she is now, I don't see how that would be possible. I can't envision her holding down a job, maintaining a car payment, rent, utility bills, a social life, etc. Her room is always a complete disaster with her clothes and toys strewn around everywhere. It always looks like a burglar broke into her room and ransacked it looking for gold and diamonds. She also brings rocks and all sorts of unusual objects from outdoors into her room.

I don't know how she could live like that, I for one cannot stand living in a messy environment, but she doesn't seem to care. Then when she gets inundated with a huge pile of chores she freaks out. We tell her all the time that she wouldn't have to get inundated with a huge pile of chores if she spread it all out and maintained her room over time and did what she was told when she was told.

Anyway...My wife will need to take her to court this Wednesday for her truancy, so we'll see how that goes. We've never suggested to her doctor or social workers the possibility of AS because we never knew what it was, we just knew that something was definitely wrong with her. I am 99.99% sure she has AS, and I will make sure her care workers are aware of all the symptoms.

This is more along the lines of what I am thinking, but only a professional can tell, of course, and I am so glad that you are seeking treatment for your daughter. There could be co-occurring conditions, too, which would make things exceptionally hard to diagnose.

Good luck to you on your journey - I'm on a similar one.

i honestly could not have said that better myself. this is exactly what i was going to post. punishment is completely ineffective as a teaching tool. positive reinforcement is the the most effective teaching tool you can use (this is the way natives traditionally teach our children) ... coupled with effective communication, and in her case if she is AS then you need to learn how she perceives the world before you can communicate with her.

best of luck .. i hope you find to courage to stick this out with them, i'm guessing they both need your support right now.

Sorry, what?!?!? You can't detect Asperger's with a MRI or EEG. It's diagosed by observation and by interacting with a diagnostician, and answering a rather complicated series of questions about how you feel and how you're functioning....

You might also have her checked for central auditory processing disorder.

Something else to consider - the kid may just be psychologically really screwed up. It may not be anything either neurological or biochemical at all. Therapy, maybe a very controlled environment. If the kid has just run wild most of her life with little in the way of direction, well it's too bad military school is so expensive.... There are a lot of "it could be"s, and you're doing the right thing so far, trying to find out what it isn't.

Good luck.

PS At 12 I wouldn't have felt a damned thing about 911, other than I would have noted that other people were upset and it screwed up my routine. Now, if a dog or a cat had been in the WTC and been killed, injured, or frightened, I'd have been in tears. I didn't relate to people at that time - we were not the same species. I'm not sure we are, still....

On a darker note, you are "step" parent. Not parent. If she's incredibly bright, she could be playing you like a fish on a line, doing what she knows pushes your buttons. Because you are not "dad" - you caused him (even if you didn't) to not be there. She may not even realize what she's doing. Or maybe she does. Just another "could be" - a lot of Aspies are way, way too smart for their own good.

Yes we already discussed that AS cannot be diagnosed with an MRI or EEG... As I explained in previous posts, we haven't talked to her doctors about the possibility of her having AS and no one has talked to us about it. My wife and I found the symptoms of AS by doing some research on the internet. The doctors wanted her to have an MRI and EEG BEFORE we knew about AS to try and find out what is wrong with her. We will now suggest to the doctors the possibility of her having AS to see if they still want the MRI and EEG, which they probably still will because they probably charge the insurance company like 10 grand for the tests.



Those were just examples...When you live with someone for a while, you get to understand them and learn how they are. We can say with certainty that she shows no emotion, remorse, or compassion. She does not display feelings of guilt or sadness.



She never met her real father, he left her mom's life before she was even born. My wife had her at a pretty young age. Her real father never attempted to make contact with her or my wife and after doing research we found he's doing time in jail somewhere for armed robbery and assaulting a police officer. We told our daughter this and she knows this guy is a deadbeat loser and never expressed an interest to meet him. I don't believe she is doing this on purpose or to spite me because her behavior actually improves when I get home from work and my wife tells me every day that she has to put up with her while I'm at work. She tells me that she talks back to her, argues with her about everything, doesn't do what she's told, says smartass things, etc. All this seems to not happen when I get home, she seems to think that she can get away with it more with my wife.

In fact she is very talkative and will often talk about bizarre things and start conversations at inappropriate times. For example, we'll be driving in the car somewhere and she will probably be thinking about something in her head and all of a sudden blurt out "That rib place was pretty good." Now as you know, that isn't enough information to know what she's talking about. What rib place? What does this have to do with what we're talking about now? When did we eat there? She always does that, she will blurt something out and expect us to know what she's talking about when she doesn't provide nearly enough information or form a complete thought like "That rib place we ate at in Springfield 2 years ago on Chestnut street was good wasn't it?"

Other times she will ask questions that have nothing to do with anything that is being discussed and for no apparent reason. I'll be sitting there watching TV and she'll come up to me and ask "What time is it in Japan?" How should I know? Is there a reason you need to know what time it is in Japan?

hello Houston281...I asume you must live in Houston...me too!!

She sounds a whole lot like me when i was a child and I have both ADD and AS symptoms...
This includes the lying and cleptomania.
The good news is I grew out of the lying and cleptomania a long time ago..but it was kinda difficult and took a long time..The lying happend partially because I was understimulated and had few outlets for the weird stuff that would pop into my head, so I would make up stories about it...not knowing how rediculously unbelievable they were.
The stealing was part of an obsessive compulsive ritual of mine....very very bad...I know...(slaps self on wrist)....But like i said....I grew out of it, and became very hard on myself for it later on.

Anywhoo....as she moves into her teens, she is gonna need alot of guidance and stimulation. If she is anything at all like me, she has the potential to be a very creative person (if not already)...and needs to learn to use her mind in ways that will benefit her the most..it is a slippery slope....I know all too well.

well for each time she steals something , steal (*)something from her , that gives her something to think about what it is to get stolen

(*)just take something aside and give it back when there is a better behavoir

Girl: you stole something from me
Mom: yep you stole something so you have to pay for it , if you do something good you get yours back

think it is obsessive thing that needs to be stopped and it is something she can go to jail for when she grows older (tell her that)

I definitely recognise the random conversations out of the blue. Its just something she was thinking about at the time and probably assumed that everyone has a memory like hers. Its a great thing that you are investigating this. It shows you have genuine concern and a desire to understand this kiddo. The more time you invest in her, the better you will both fare.
As far as tasks go, i know that when i was a kid that age and my mom left me a list o things to do, it would often enrage me, as i had difficulty in assessing how long each chore would take, not to mention that the list was not on MY personal agenda for the day. It felt like the day was ruined.
Be firm and if you tell her certain actions have a consequence, FOLLOW THROUGH. This will establish some form of stability and let her know you will be dependable to do what you say. All kids need that. Merely the fact that you are willing to step up to the plate as a parent is incredibly admirable. Not every kid is so lucky to have that in their life. Hang in there... I am sure you will come to understand her a little more every day.

Perhaps she just wants to interact with you? You could take a moment to show her how to go on the computer and find the time in Japan. What she wants may have nothing whatsoever to do with the actual time. Or, she may want to know the time in Japan. Again, you can always tell her it's x hours later than where you are, and to go look at a clock and figure it out.

No offense meant here, and I don't know your actual situation, but you don't seem to be very accepting of her for who she is. You seem to want her to be someone else. If she's Aspie, that won't happen. But it's not a crime or a sin, just a difference. You will need to change your approach, most likely, unless you want the rest of her time with you to be one battle after another. We play by a different rulebook, and what's "nice" and "expected" ... well, those pages may be missing in hers and it's not as if you can just glue your own in. It doesn't tend to work that way. Good luck!

Last edited by Nan on 25 Mar 2008, 3:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Sorry, just got to this one.

She is TWELVE! Oh, mygod. Lighten up! She's a kid. I've never met a 12 year old with a neat room (except for those who are really OCD). If it's not a priority for her, if she sees no reason it's useful to her for her to have a clean room, you'll never see it happen. Is having a neat room so terribly important that it is cause to make both you and the child miserable???? I mean, yes, I understand that you are a neat-freak (as you state above). Not everyone is.

I used to have to thread my way around my kid's room when she was young. She went off to YMCA camp one week and it took me three entire days to sort and clean her room up. I only went in and did that because the landlord was going to put new carpet in and we were going to have to move all the furniture out. Two months later you'd never have known I'd been in there. You know what? She just got her degree in a foreign language and is working at her first job making just under $30K a year and has already gotten glowing reviews from her bosses. Your daughter is 12. T.W.E.L.V.E. - she's a child. Hold off on making a living and getting through school and surviving in the world for at least a few years!

Good for her on bringing items that interest her home!! I had a whole pile of rocks - and ended up placing out of my first year college geology course because they led me to reading about rocks. Then there were the insects in the jars. Aced biology in high school. Guess why? If it were me, and I'm thankful it's not in this case as I've already done it once and am old and tired now, I'd check to see what she brought home and build on it. Leaves? Get a magnifying glass and look at the structure. A daisey? Ever put a couple of drops of food coloring in a glass of water and placed a daisy in it to see what's happened? Or haul out the crayolas - can she draw the daisy? If so, if there's even an attempt, put it on the fridge and show it off.

Freaks out with a pile of chores? OF COURSE she does. Have you ever gotten to work and found your desk just covered with "emergency, has to be processed right now" stamped all over them and your boss breathing down your neck? Same principle. Her own fault? You can look at it that way, or you can adjust your expectations. Or you can show her how to get through a mile of chores by selecting a few to do at a time, and marking them off on a list, and then making a line through them when she's finished. Or finding what works with her - ask her. Let her help decide. Maybe it won't work with her - but you won't know unless you've tried. One of the biggest problems with "chores" - like messy rooms - is knowing where and how to start. What seems obvious to you - just go pick stuff up - may be the farthest thing from obvious to her. Do they ever "get" that if they just did the chores as assigned or on a schedule, that they'd have the results you want to have? Maybe by the time they hit 20. Then again, have you been in a dorm lately??? Remember, that for her, the world is through her eyes, not yours.

At 12 the kid should be playing in mud puddles, exploring the world, learning and growing. Spending all your time and her time fighting over the trivial things of life is wasting both of your allotments of "now". It's a matter of priorities - yours and hers are obviously not the same. If she is Aspie, hers will take precedence in her mind. You, if you are not Aspie, are going to have to learn to accommodate, to think outside the box with this kid. Good luck - to you all.

Take a deep breath now and then. She's a kid. Lighten up!

The truancy. Now that's an issue. How is a 12 year old being truant? Does she just walk off campus during the day (i.e., she has an open campus)? You're going to have to make it worth her time to stay there. My daughter and I both suffered through school - it was pointless, really. We were both years ahead of our peers intellectually (except in math, which never made sense to us at all), but not socially adept. School can be an absolute misery. If I'd had the nerve, I'd have ditched as much as possible. My parents would have beaten me within an inch of my life. My daughter - same scenario (sans violence), except I was able to get her into an alternative setting school - one with a focus on things she liked: fine and performing arts. It was miles from home, so there wasn't really anywhere for her to go had she wanted to ditch class. She did ok, slacked most of the way through, goofed off. Graduated just the same as those taking all the AP classes and being obsessed with making "A" grades. And she's doing just fine.

I am curious. How many 12 year old children (girls) have you ever been around? Many? Or just the ones the daughter brings home?

EDIT - Just went back and read one more thing. You give your daughter $20 a week allowance? Wow, that makes ME a skinflint. I gave my daughter $20 a month three years ago when she was in high school. I paid for her lunches and supplies, the $20 was to spend as she chose so she'd learn how to save or spent, and what happened if she spent everything and then wanted something. I didn't give her an allowance when she was in elementary or middle school because she had no need for one - no makeup, nail polish, pokemon cards (or was that middle school?). The only way she ever got money then was by doing something for it. She had chores because she was a member of the household and, as such, was expected to contribute. In her case, her labor was all she had to contribute. No, they weren't always done, and sometimes they were half-assed, but.... you should see her bank account. The kid grew up to be a skinflint as well. But, until money had meaning for her, until it brought her things she wanted that she would otherwise not get, it was just shiny metal and green paper. Pointless.

my daughter does that, she's always done that. i had to teach her not to by reminding her that i'm not privy to everything happening in her head. she's 16 and i'm still reminding her. now when she starts doing it i just look at her very confused and she starts to laugh, then she goes back and tells me the background info. she also used to just start talking about completely irrelevant things in the middle of a group discussion. she doesn't do that anymore either. i realized she was living completely in her own head almost all the time, she talks to herself too, a lot and out loud. i had no idea these could be other signs of AS

Houstpon...we have a problem...and the problem is not her or you it is you and her together.Bad chemistry. Your lack of understanding of your "steP' daughter sounds so much like my own adopted parents...they hated me to and it messed me even more then the aspergers,(that none of us knew about).My parents didn't kick me out until I was 16 but I was just as unprepared for life(or their rejectio) then as I would have been at 12.

If this kid means anything to you at all as a human being...get her some help and if that means living outside your house,so be it. How well an aspie will do in their life is directly related to the amount of true "liking" of them as a human being they receive from those around them.It's unlikely that she is getting it from peers or teachers...she better get it some where soon or she will go out and look for it when she is a teenager...that is guaranteed....even aspies need to feel some one likes them.

I wont bore you with the details of my life but I am not kidding about the importance of this one fact.A human who feels they are unlikable and unable to become a person who is likable will do one(or more)of the following...self harm,suicide,sexual promiscuity,crime(just to be a part of the only group who may except her),chemicals.

There are programs for aspies,hopefully there will be one where she can live in and have some expert advice from people who are less emotionally intwined.(I use to work in one with other types of troubled teens and they did help some).


You think things are hard now...wait until puberty and hormones become more active.You may not believe it but my parents thought I was a little monster too and I honestly wanted them to like me and tried my hardest to be good...I could no more be any better then I was being in that environment then a blind person can see.I was hurting and confused and angry and lonely and had no idea what to do about any of it(nor did they).I don't think you have the tools to help her but I think that others might be able to.

Hi! I do not have aspergers and my exposure to it is my grandsons where my daughter does most of the rearing.

But I want to assure you of several facts that I have learnt from this website.

Feelings: If she has aspergers she has deep feelings locked away inside. She does not show these feelings on her face and she may not be able to articulate them, but they are there.

Empathy: Many aspies discuss empathy and what it means. Some have a deep empathy about world events but state that they feel nothing for an individual. Others love animals. You have seen posts here that state that. But instead of empathy such as we neurotypicals feel, aspies have strong moral obligations that work just as well.

Gratitude: at this stage it does not mean anything to her that you spend your time in phone calls to the school so don't expect gratitude. She is too confused at the moment to attend to that.

Strategies that may work in the short term:

Solving Problem. You have to turn on your logical mind to deal with her. What is the problem and how can it be solved?

Give her one instruction one at a time.

Buy velcro shoes.

Use your sensible voice.

I see a girl in grave danger and she needs help as soon as possible. MRI'e etc may find something other that aspergers, but you need counselling from someone who understands children - not any medico.

I understand how wearing all this is for you. I am exhausted when my arm flailing non stop talking boys are. They have had a year of therapy at an asperger's clinic and they have changed into funny, happy boys who are fun to be with. But if the support they get to cater for their individual needs is removed, they deteriorate into meltdowns and depression. At this stage of their lives their mother has to be vigilant that they are protected from bullying, and that they have time away from the classroom every day.

Emotional sppech will not get through. Use logic.

.........................................

To my fellow posters, I hope you are not offended because I seemed to speak on your behalf. I was sspeaking as one NT to another.

I can't expect you to understand...You don't have to be around her 24/7. My wife and I aren't just some uptight parents, we know that she has mental problems, most likely AS. She fits every symptom there is for it. I have been around lots of children boy and girls her age and I have never seen any of them act like she does. I appreciate your opinion, but I do not appreciate being told to lighten up like I'm just a crazy uptight parent that doesn't know what a 12 year old should act like. It also doesn't seem like you read all my posts thoroughly, instead you picked and chose what you wanted to read out of each one to tell me that I'm a nutjob. You haven't been helpful. I did not post here to be told to lighten up, there's nothing wrong with her when even her teachers tell us that there is something wrong with her.

Her problems have NOTHING to do with me. My wife told me she has had these problems long before I came into the picture, and in fact they were WORSE before I showed up. My wife told me how when she was a small child, I forget the age, she tried to poison my wife and her then husband by pouring household cleaning chemicals into a pitcher of juice and put it back in the fridge. Not sure whether or not it was intended to harm anyone, but my wife and her then husband luckily took a sip and noticed that their throats started burning and didn't drink anymore. She told me stories of taking her to the store with her and she would scream, claw, punch, and attack my wife when she couldn't have a toy or something. She would take off and run from my wife and not come back, she had to be chased down and captured. She never wanted to be held, coddled, loved, etc. Trust me, her issues were here long before I arrived and according to my wife they have improved significantly since I showed up in the picture, but there is still a lot of work to be done. My wife even noted that the kids we have had together, aged 2 and 1 (almost 3 and 2) already act a lot differently than she did when she was that age.