antifa= terrorist PPR thread

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What exactly is the issue being discussed here?

If I were to declare that "Red Green's Possum Lodge is a terrorist organization" I would be slandering a group of people who don't even exist outside of a fictional TV show. So would that declaration be a violation of WP rules?

The word Antifa was used in the 1930's by European leftist. Then the term died out, but was rediscovered in the 2010s by adhoc bands of modern far lefters who decided to wear the word as their badge, and then conservative commentators on TV jumped on the term and made it into a boogey man. But I don't see much evidence that Antifa is an actual "organization", nor even that it is even an actual "thing" at all. So saying anything about Antifa, good or bad, is like saying anything about "the Ya Ya Sisterhood"or "the Possum Lodge" . How can you slander a group that doesn't exist?

If Trump declares the Possum Lodge to a be a terrorist organization then he might be...being a liar, and might be being a demogogue who is scapegoating a group for political ends. But would he be violating WP rules against criticizing groups of people? And if I were to repeat what the POTUS said about the Possum Lodge would I also be in violation of those rules?

I don't think so. I don't see either he or I would be in violation.

If we have reached the point that an opinion that doesn't jive with a mod is against the rules, we are truly f****d.

That’s a good post, NP.

When I locked the thread, the attacks on Antifa were a long way down my list of priorities. The overriding reasons were 1) personal attacks, 2) a single post which said that all Conservatives were Nazis, a distant 3) the provocative framing of the OP. Perhaps I shouldn’t have mentioned Antifa at all.

Agree that “Antifa” as an organisation is stretching the definition of organisation. But other political beliefs such as liberalism and conservatism are also not organisations. We don’t accept “liberalism is a mental disorder”. I don’t think we should accept “conservatism is a terrorist organisation”.

Speaking hypothetically, if a couple of users started publicly identifying as Antifa members or followers then I don’t see why we wouldn’t give them the same protection we would give other non-bigoted ideologies.

Obviously if the President really did have the power to label domestic non-groups as terrorist organisations then stating “Antifa is a terrorist organisation” would just be a statement of fact. But if it were done provocatively, in a manner intended to rile up other users, or in an attempt to insult them, then that would be a breach of the rules. Likewise if say the Iranian government declared the Republican Party (or American conservatism or whatever) to be a terrorist organisation - it would then technically be true that the GOP is a recognised terrorist group but it wouldn’t be OK for users to use that to belittle or provoke other users.

I hope we can keep having open and frank discussions about this as this is certainly an evolving area where moderation will benefit from a wide range of viewpoints.

Is calling all conspiracy theorists "idiots" a punishable offense here?

Not all conspiracy theories are false, though. And conspiracy theorists are like autistics, it's a spectrum. Some are merely hobbyists.

What if I said all liberals were idiots? I'm certain that would not be permitted.

The fact remains, there are liberals and conspiracy theorists on this board - some members are both. Let's not forget, the MSM pushed a conspiracy theory for three years.

If users have a problem with individual posts then they can report them. Mods don't deal with reports on their own posts.

For what its worth with hindsight I would like to have phrased that particular post a little differently.

Doesn't it alarm anyone that we're actually having a discussion about whether or not calling Antifa terrorists should be allowed here?