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B.Sisko
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04 Aug 2020, 7:51 am

League_Girl wrote:
All humans are prejudice.


sadly yes


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B.Sisko
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04 Aug 2020, 8:01 am

League_Girl wrote:

I just laughed and ignored his question because where in my post did I say he sucked lmao? I even re read it thinking I told him he sucked and OMG, was I just gas lighted


there was no gaslighing

you voted ESH which means everyone sucks here


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04 Aug 2020, 9:06 am

B.Sisko wrote:
League_Girl wrote:

I just laughed and ignored his question because where in my post did I say he sucked lmao? I even re read it thinking I told him he sucked and OMG, was I just gas lighted


there was no gaslighing

you voted ESH which means everyone sucks here


But he asked me if he sucked for being with her and I never wrote that in my post.

I guess that was on him then.


Edit:

NM: He was referring to my ESH vote.


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Last edited by League_Girl on 04 Aug 2020, 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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04 Aug 2020, 9:08 am

Brictoria wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
An example of word twisting that just happened.


Someone wanted to know on another if they were AITA (am I the as*hole) for confiscating their wife's debit and credit card (she doesn't understand credit so she will spend spend spend and put them into deep debt and also clean out their bank account they wouldn't be able to pay their bills) and I wrote:

Quote:
In this scenario, I find it fine to handle all the money. It's not like you are being financially abusive and if she needs money, you will give it to her. But what is stopping her from getting her own card and putting herself into debt?

​

I hope you took her off your bank account too because she will have access to it when she gets a card replacement.

​

Edit: I think marrying this girl was a big mistake. Why on earth would you marry someone who doesn't know how to handle finances? This would have been a deal breaker for me. You lost me at when you said you are both 19 and recently married. So my answer is now ESH. Her for not knowing about finances and you for even marrying her and choosing to stay with her.


His response was:

Quote:
I suck for holding on to somebody i love almost unconditionally?


I just laughed and ignored his question because where in my post did I say he sucked lmao?


Care to elaborate on what you meant by ESH? As I understand it:
Quote:
ESH
Everyone sucks here - Used as a type of judgement, primarily on subreddit r/amitheasshole.
ESH... she should not have keyed your car, but you also should not have retaliated by running over her dog.

Source: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ESH

As such, your post ended with you doing exactly what you then denied:
Quote:
So my answer is now everyone sucks here. Her for not knowing about finances and you for even marrying her and choosing to stay with her.



Oh, he was referring to my vote. I see. No wonder I didn't see the exact words. :lol:

He still missed the entire point I made then if that is what he got out of it.


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04 Aug 2020, 9:12 am

Deepthought 7 wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Deepthought 7 wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
The problem is that "placing the interests of whites ahead of others" is often used as another way of saying "disagrees with what I think is best".


That would appear to be a dishonest misinterpretation.


Brictoria wrote:
The "placing the interests of whites ahead of others" definition of "white supremecy" has been used in the past against posts where it was clearly stated that all races should be treated equally, and is actually a subjective assumption of another members beliefs, rather than an objective summary of what was presented.


You mean you were reminded that some communities face issues that other communities don't and that ignoring this reality would continue to place some people's interests behind those of others?


So, to you, a person in a completely different country advocating that all people should receive the same treatment is a "White supremecist"?

One of the problems in this respect is that all people or peoples should not be treated the same but individually according to their needs, with different cultures having different value systems and environmental norms, which you go on to state as follows:

Brictoria wrote:
No-one has claimed that people in communities which face problems shouldn't receive appropriate help, but they HAVE pointed out that only concerning how something impacts on those of a given race (instead of anyone regardless of race) is taking a racist view of the issue.

Just thought I would clarify on the issue as quite a few people stumble on the everyone should receive the same treatment thing.


There is a difference in how a person is "treated" and what "support they are provided". These are not the same thing as you suggest - A police office, for example, should treat each person they interact with in the same way. This same Police officer isn't responsible (nor trained\equipped) to provide "support" to the community to remove some "disadvantage", which would be handled by a different area of government.

If a community has an issue, then this should be addressed, but the treatment of an individual should not vary based on their "community" or "race". Different treatment based on a person's race\community only serves to divide society. Equal treatment of individuals, with support to communities as required can help bring society together.

In some cultures it is considered friendly to smile whilst displaying the teeth ~ whilst in other cultures it shows you are being aggressive and threatening. As in other cultures it is appropriate to bow rather than to shake hands. In the west it is considered polite to finish a meal, whist in the east it is considered polite to leave some of the meal. If you steal in some places you will get a fine and in other places you will have your hand cut off. Which is what I was referring to rather than suggesting in terms of people and peoples needing to be treated individually ~ as also applies with neurologically typical, atypical and divergent people in terms of requiring different considerations when interacting with them.

The one-size-fits-all way of thinking that some light skinned cultures adhere to is what some dark skinned cultures find particularly frustrating on account of different cultural values that are not relevant or as relevant to them ~ which is what some people stumble over and why the white privilege issue is raised. For example, if an American takes an African Intelligence Quota test and an African takes an American Intelligence Quota test ~ both individuals will not do as well if they were doing the IQ tests that are culturally specific to them.



This makes perfect sense why black people would score lower on IQ tests and I have seen racists justify their racism by their IQ score.

This is another example of how statistics can be skewed.


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04 Aug 2020, 9:20 am

So folks if I had told that fella I never said he sucked or if I asked him where in my posts did I say he sucks, would that still have been gas lighting even if I got confused because I didn't realize he was referring to my vote, not to my post itself? This is what I mean by unintentional.


So it's always helpful to go back and quote where you feel they made that claim so the person knows where you are coming from with your accusation. Of course this won't work with true gas lighters. In fact it usually escalates the situation I often hear when their victims would call them out on their abuse.


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04 Aug 2020, 9:28 am

Deepthought 7 wrote:
In some cultures it is considered friendly to smile whilst displaying the teeth ~ whilst in other cultures it shows you are being aggressive and threatening. As in other cultures it is appropriate to bow rather than to shake hands. In the west it is considered polite to finish a meal, whist in the east it is considered polite to leave some of the meal. If you steal in some places you will get a fine and in other places you will have your hand cut off. Which is what I was referring to rather than suggesting in terms of people and peoples needing to be treated individually ~ as also applies with neurologically typical, atypical and divergent people in terms of requiring different considerations when interacting with them.

The one-size-fits-all way of thinking that some light skinned cultures adhere to is what some dark skinned cultures find particularly frustrating on account of different cultural values that are not relevant or as relevant to them ~ which is what some people stumble over and why the white privilege issue is raised. For example, if an American takes an African Intelligence Quota test and an African takes an American Intelligence Quota test ~ both individuals will not do as well if they were doing the IQ tests that are culturally specific to them.


This is also well put.

I have another example, two people want to go to graduate school. They both have to take the GRE and get an acceptable score to prove their 'competence' to enter their program. The company that administers the test also designs and sells 'study materials' for the test. The test in reality has been designed to tricky even for intelligent people and only those who purchase the 'study materials' generally do very well. Both individuals have equal intelligence. One comes from an inherited economically wealthy background and has the time and money to purchase all the testing materials/short courses, the other does not and can not so they must rely on their prior education. The former passes the 'test' and the latter does not.



Last edited by Feyokien on 04 Aug 2020, 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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04 Aug 2020, 9:34 am

funeralxempire wrote:
You seem to be under the impression that one can only be a white supremacist if they preach some sort of 'master race' nonsense and basing all of your conclusions on that overly strict definition. Sorry Jimmy, but imma keep calling a spade a spade. You can gnash your teeth over it all you like but you don't get to silence me on this matter.


This site runs on Rules. These are posted here. WrongPlanet Rules. You Must Read This Before Posting.

2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.


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B.Sisko
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04 Aug 2020, 10:01 am

League_Girl wrote:
So folks if I had told that fella I never said he sucked or if I asked him where in my posts did I say he sucks, would that still have been gas lighting even if I got confused because I didn't realize he was referring to my vote, not to my post itself? This is what I mean by unintentional.


Quote:
Unconscious Gaslighting
The person is totally unaware they are engaging in it. In fact, they perceive they are being very reasonable in their interactions because they have no clue about the impact of what they are doing. They might even lack the capacity or willingness to question their own viewpoint in consideration of another’s viewpoint

Here is what it can look like:

The ‘I Don’t Get It’ Act

Over the course of a week, I explained and re-explained the company’s vision to my colleague numerous times. I teach English as a Second Language for a living, so I’m intimately familiar with how to break down concepts, reword definitions, and give examples. This was a totally different issue. My colleague continued to claim confusion over and over again.When someone says they are confused and makes no effort to dive into why they’re confused, they continually put the onus on you to explain. It not only becomes tedious, it has you question what you’re saying. I began to wonder, Why am I not getting through? How is it he’s not understanding these the ideas I’m explaining? Then, it hit me: he actually didn’t want to understand but likely didn’t know that. Someone who truly wants to understand makes efforts in that direction.


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04 Aug 2020, 10:03 am

Maybe it would just be better if Alex made a new rule saying "no calling anyone out on their racism, white supremacy, etc but disagreeing is fine but no calling them that" because of different perspectives. It's hard to enforce the rule when everyone comes from different backgrounds and has different interpretations and different perspectives. But if you make a specific rule like that, it's easier to enforce.

Of course the next thing you know, people would still be accused of breaking that rule because someone can say they were called that even if the person didn't literally say it.

Not everyone sees it as an attack to calling someone out on their racism or white supremacy if spade is a spade. This is also part of the advocacy and activism too for people of color. To support them, you need to call people out on their racism and white supremacy so they are made aware because society had ingrained that into them. So the "no personal attacks" rule is hard to follow due to different perspectives. Or another rule can be added, no advocating for minorities. :lol:

Just read books about it like White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo and Me and White Supremacy by Layla F Saad. They even mention the same thing that you must call people out on it and they are fragile when they get offended and get defensive.

I kept thinking, of course they get defensive when they think they are being accused. No one likes to get accused. People care more about intentions than actions so they get defensive when they are told that is racist or white supremacy.

Racism is a very fragile topic.


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04 Aug 2020, 10:06 am

B.Sisko wrote:
... The 'I Don’t Get It' Act

Over the course of a week, I explained and re-explained the company's vision to my colleague numerous times.  I teach English as a Second Language for a living, so I'm intimately familiar with how to break down concepts, reword definitions, and give examples.  This was a totally different issue.  My colleague continued to claim confusion over and over again.  When someone says they are confused and makes no effort to dive into why they're confused, they continually put the onus on you to explain.  It not only becomes tedious, it has you question what you're saying.  I began to wonder, Why am I not getting through?  How is it he's not understanding these the ideas I'm explaining?  Then, it hit me: he actually didn't want to understand but likely didn’t know that.  Someone who truly wants to understand makes efforts in that direction.
I see this a lot in L&D with the "I can't get a girlfriend" crowd.


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04 Aug 2020, 10:08 am

B.Sisko wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
So folks if I had told that fella I never said he sucked or if I asked him where in my posts did I say he sucks, would that still have been gas lighting even if I got confused because I didn't realize he was referring to my vote, not to my post itself? This is what I mean by unintentional.


Quote:
Unconscious Gaslighting
The person is totally unaware they are engaging in it. In fact, they perceive they are being very reasonable in their interactions because they have no clue about the impact of what they are doing. They might even lack the capacity or willingness to question their own viewpoint in consideration of another’s viewpoint

Here is what it can look like:

The ‘I Don’t Get It’ Act

Over the course of a week, I explained and re-explained the company’s vision to my colleague numerous times. I teach English as a Second Language for a living, so I’m intimately familiar with how to break down concepts, reword definitions, and give examples. This was a totally different issue. My colleague continued to claim confusion over and over again.When someone says they are confused and makes no effort to dive into why they’re confused, they continually put the onus on you to explain. It not only becomes tedious, it has you question what you’re saying. I began to wonder, Why am I not getting through? How is it he’s not understanding these the ideas I’m explaining? Then, it hit me: he actually didn’t want to understand but likely didn’t know that. Someone who truly wants to understand makes efforts in that direction.




It seemed to go from that yes you can do it on accident and not realize it to "no, it means you are pretending to be obtuse because you don't want to get it." I don't think that was the case with me or I still would have been obtuse about why he asked me if he sucks for staying with her.


I have seen parents joke about their toddlers gaslighting them to make fun of abusers. Narcissists truly believe their kid is out to get them. Oh the victim complex is so strong. No Karen, your two year old didn't throw a tantrum to humiliate you and to dominate you, that is call being two years old. Their emotions are not that far developed to handle disappointment.


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04 Aug 2020, 10:12 am

Fnord wrote:
B.Sisko wrote:
... The 'I Don’t Get It' Act

Over the course of a week, I explained and re-explained the company's vision to my colleague numerous times.  I teach English as a Second Language for a living, so I'm intimately familiar with how to break down concepts, reword definitions, and give examples.  This was a totally different issue.  My colleague continued to claim confusion over and over again.  When someone says they are confused and makes no effort to dive into why they're confused, they continually put the onus on you to explain.  It not only becomes tedious, it has you question what you're saying.  I began to wonder, Why am I not getting through?  How is it he's not understanding these the ideas I'm explaining?  Then, it hit me: he actually didn't want to understand but likely didn’t know that.  Someone who truly wants to understand makes efforts in that direction.
I see this a lot in L&D with the "I can't get a girlfriend" crowd.



Also with TERFs too about transgender.

Honestly I wonder if some people are really incapable of getting things.


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04 Aug 2020, 10:14 am

League_Girl wrote:
Honestly I wonder if some people are really incapable of getting things.

With my experience in education: Yes. We all do have our limits.


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04 Aug 2020, 10:22 am

League_Girl wrote:
Just read books about it like White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo


or, y'know, something by someone who doesn't rely on pseudo-intellectual waffling and unfalsfiable claims (sprinkled with a nice healthy dose of her own racism) to sell her snake oil.


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04 Aug 2020, 10:22 am

magz wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Honestly I wonder if some people are really incapable of getting things.

With my experience in education: Yes. We all do have our limits.



This is my fear and I pity people with disabilities.


I was thinking more about people not getting transgender, homosexuality, racism, and other marginalized groups though just so you know.


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