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Making it Better: The future of WP

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Amity
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31 Jul 2020, 9:21 am

Fnord wrote:
Amity wrote:
The bullying issue, where one member is targeted repeatedly by another member is a pattern that can be observed...
You could also say that "... one member is targeted repeatedly by other members..." is an on-going bullying issue; like when one member is singled out by several others as the most convenient target of their hatred and contempt without ever showing a justifiable cause for their behavior.

I know what I seen in the Haven, as have others it seems, but I have no evidence of course, so I guess any reaction I have to that has no validity, as I have no evidence for my reason to react.


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Fnord
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31 Jul 2020, 9:26 am

Amity wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Amity wrote:
The bullying issue, where one member is targeted repeatedly by another member is a pattern that can be observed...
You could also say that "... one member is targeted repeatedly by other members..." is an on-going bullying issue; like when one member is singled out by several others as the most convenient target of their hatred and contempt without ever showing a justifiable cause for their behavior.
I know what I seen in the Haven, as have others it seems, but I have no evidence of course, so I guess any reaction I have to that has no validity, as I have no evidence for my reason to react.
There was a time when I lacked compassion when posting in The Haven.  In the past few years, my involvement in The Haven has been diminished, which is probably why there is so little alleged "evidence".


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Amity
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31 Jul 2020, 9:33 am

Fnord wrote:
Amity wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Amity wrote:
The bullying issue, where one member is targeted repeatedly by another member is a pattern that can be observed...
You could also say that "... one member is targeted repeatedly by other members..." is an on-going bullying issue; like when one member is singled out by several others as the most convenient target of their hatred and contempt without ever showing a justifiable cause for their behavior.
I know what I seen in the Haven, as have others it seems, but I have no evidence of course, so I guess any reaction I have to that has no validity, as I have no evidence for my reason to react.
There was a time when I lacked compassion in posting in The Haven.  In the past few years, my involvement in The Haven has been diminished, which is probably why there is so little "evidence".

You've made much progress in that regard its true, also true is that when you slip up, it is a brutality that I wish no one to have ever known.


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blazingstar
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31 Jul 2020, 9:34 am

This discussion needs to be about making WP a more welcoming and comfortable and supportive place to be.

Anyone who thinks that eliminating one member will do that is not thinking clearly.

I've said this before, but it bears repeating: We all have, by definition, impaired social skills. We express things poorly and we interpret things poorly. I have edited this post repeatedly in an effort to not express something that can be taken as an attack. But I bet someone will anyway. :(

Ganging up on a member is not conducive to becoming a welcoming and comfortable and supportive place. Without the intense reaction of the posters who gang up on the other member, the member's posts just fade away.

In my observation, it is the resulting war of words and attacks that come after the initial perceived offense that make the site offensive. One bad post, even a nasty one, can be forgotten if it is followed by other posts that are supportive of the OP or contribute to the OP situation.

Lots of posters have learned to say something to the effect of, "I have a different point of view, which is...." should something has to be said.

Many of my posts have been totally ignored in long threads as the war of words goes on around me.

My heart truly bleeds for the people who are fighting. There are many more people fighting than there are making the original perceived offence.

I believe that everyone on this forum has something constructive to contribute. That includes the perceived bulliers and the perceived victims. I use "perceived" because we can't know what is in someone's heart and because we can't see all the other factors which influence our own perceptions, hurts and social skills OR those of the poster.

So some people get over-wrought at times? Yes. I have done it myself in PPR. :( I always regret it and usually try to stay away for a few days to calm down.

Are we perfect? NO.
Do all of us make mistakes. YES

Can we be loving and kind even to those who express things differently or have different opinions?
I HOPE SO.


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Fnord
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31 Jul 2020, 9:35 am

Amity wrote:
Vermont savant is one of the people ive observed actively lodging complaints about bullying, requesting that action is taken. It seems that he has yet to be taken seriously.
There must be a logical reason for that.


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31 Jul 2020, 9:38 am

@Blazingstar: Thank you for your thoughtful and kind words.  I think you have illuminated the situation perfectly.


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Amity
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31 Jul 2020, 9:41 am

This to me is a solution

Amity wrote:
The bullying issue, where one member is targeted repeatedly by another member is a pattern that can be observed...

The rules could be adapted to include the term 'pattern' or if not there could be mod consensus that a pattern of this type of low level bullying behaviour is part of this section on the existing rules: "behavior intended to provoke or belittle other members".


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magz
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31 Jul 2020, 9:44 am

blazingstar wrote:
This discussion needs to be about making WP a more welcoming and comfortable and supportive place to be.

Anyone who thinks that eliminating one member will do that is not thinking clearly.

I've said this before, but it bears repeating: We all have, by definition, impaired social skills. We express things poorly and we interpret things poorly. I have edited this post repeatedly in an effort to not express something that can be taken as an attack. But I bet someone will anyway. :(

Ganging up on a member is not conducive to becoming a welcoming and comfortable and supportive place. Without the intense reaction of the posters who gang up on the other member, the member's posts just fade away.

In my observation, it is the resulting war of words and attacks that come after the initial perceived offense that make the site offensive. One bad post, even a nasty one, can be forgotten if it is followed by other posts that are supportive of the OP or contribute to the OP situation.

Lots of posters have learned to say something to the effect of, "I have a different point of view, which is...." should something has to be said.

Many of my posts have been totally ignored in long threads as the war of words goes on around me.

My heart truly bleeds for the people who are fighting. There are many more people fighting than there are making the original perceived offence.

I believe that everyone on this forum has something constructive to contribute. That includes the perceived bulliers and the perceived victims. I use "perceived" because we can't know what is in someone's heart and because we can't see all the other factors which influence our own perceptions, hurts and social skills OR those of the poster.

So some people get over-wrought at times? Yes. I have done it myself in PPR. :( I always regret it and usually try to stay away for a few days to calm down.

Are we perfect? NO.
Do all of us make mistakes. YES

Can we be loving and kind even to those who express things differently or have different opinions?
I HOPE SO.
The wisest words here :heart:
Yes, we so often misunderstand and miscommunicate. We have mental health issues.
Sometimes words told with neutral intention hurt very, very deeply.
Sometimes a clarification is all that we really need.


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Fnord
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31 Jul 2020, 9:47 am

Amity wrote:
This to me is a solution: The bullying issue, where one member is targeted repeatedly by another member is a pattern that can be observed...

The rules could be adapted to include the term 'pattern' or if not there could be mod consensus that a pattern of this type of low level bullying behaviour is part of this section on the existing rules: "behavior intended to provoke or belittle other members".
Unfortunately, such a 'pattern' may only be a subjective perception -- apophenia and pereidolia are both common traits among aspies.


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magz
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31 Jul 2020, 9:53 am

You know who came to my mind after reading "bullying issue, where one member is targeted repeatedly by another member is a pattern that can be observed"?
I agree we shouldn't accept bullying. Nor bullying for perceived bullying.


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<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Amity
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31 Jul 2020, 10:01 am

^Who?


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Alex_2x4
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31 Jul 2020, 10:04 am

Devils Advocate: The Fnord issue ? has been resolved: he has changed , quit , been banned , whatever , use your imagination.

What is next on the agenda? What is the worst problem here ?


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BenderRodriguez
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31 Jul 2020, 10:06 am

magz wrote:
You know who came to my mind after reading "bullying issue, where one member is targeted repeatedly by another member is a pattern that can be observed"?


Sly? Ezra?


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vermontsavant
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31 Jul 2020, 10:07 am

Fnord wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It is not bullying to correct other people's false beliefs, their fallacious reasoning, or their improper use of the English language.  Some people just cannot stand to be corrected.
So your saying your the expert on what is reasoning-very arrogant!
I neither stated nor implied that; you inferred it.
vermontsavant wrote:
Your the god source for true belief-even more arrogant!
Your statement lacks any basis in reality.
vermontsavant wrote:
Correcting a small spelling or grammar mistake just to invalidate a point you don't want to hear,people with good grammar and good verbal communication skills never learn anything,because they use every persons communication difficulties to ignore what they don't want to hear.
Sweeping generalizations tend to make entire arguments invalid.
vermontsavant wrote:
Your only hurting yourself there.
No, I'm only watching others dig themselves deeper.


Believe what you want Fnord,I think you know the truth.

I will argue with you no further,I can't change your mind,do it your way, whatever. :?


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Fnord
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31 Jul 2020, 10:08 am

Alex_2x4 wrote:
Devils Advocate: The Fnord issue ? has been resolved: he has changed , quit , been banned , whatever , use your imagination...
I have?  When did that happen?  Why was I not informed?


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Fnord
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31 Jul 2020, 10:11 am

vermontsavant wrote:
Fnord wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It is not bullying to correct other people's false beliefs, their fallacious reasoning, or their improper use of the English language.  Some people just cannot stand to be corrected.
So your saying your the expert on what is reasoning-very arrogant!
I neither stated nor implied that; you inferred it.
vermontsavant wrote:
Your the god source for true belief-even more arrogant!
Your statement lacks any basis in reality.
vermontsavant wrote:
Correcting a small spelling or grammar mistake just to invalidate a point you don't want to hear,people with good grammar and good verbal communication skills never learn anything,because they use every persons communication difficulties to ignore what they don't want to hear.
Sweeping generalizations tend to make entire arguments invalid.
vermontsavant wrote:
Your only hurting yourself there.
No, I'm only watching others dig themselves deeper.
Believe what you want Fnord,I think you know the truth.
Oh, I really DO know the truth.  That's why I do not need to defend myself.
vermontsavant wrote:
I will argue with you no further,I can't change your mind,do it your way, whatever. :?
Thank you for your most gracious concession.  Have a nice day!

:flower:


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