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calandale
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28 Jul 2007, 11:43 pm

If this was so worth replying to,
why did it take a year?

Necro Troll!



The_Chosen_One
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29 Jul 2007, 2:00 am

Unlike you, Calandale, some of us don't spend all our time on the forum. We actually have a life.


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calandale
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29 Jul 2007, 5:57 am

The_Chosen_One wrote:
Unlike you, Calandale, some of us don't spend all our time on the forum. We actually have a life.


And unlike pandora, some of us don't have
a hidden agenda to drown out speech, by
pulling up more and more old topics, just
because some section bores us.

I shall refrain from attacking your lifestyle,
my prudish friend.



MrMark
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29 Jul 2007, 6:11 am

Calandale, maybe you should cease the unsubstantiated accusations of hidden agendas.


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calandale
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29 Jul 2007, 6:22 am

MrMark wrote:
Calandale, maybe you should cease the unsubstantiated accusations of hidden agendas.


Admitted agendas are neither hidden nor
unsubstantiated.

My record of being right is unblemished,
dearie. Unlike yours.



MrMark
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29 Jul 2007, 6:25 am

calandale wrote:
...some of us don't have a hidden agenda ...


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MrMark
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29 Jul 2007, 6:30 am

Maybe we could just refrain from making accusations, or maybe I could make one of my own. Which would you prefer?


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calandale
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29 Jul 2007, 6:35 am

MrMark wrote:
Maybe we could just refrain from making accusations, or maybe I could make one of my own. Which would you prefer?


Go ahead and make yours, sir.



calandale
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29 Jul 2007, 6:36 am

MrMark wrote:
calandale wrote:
...some of us don't have a hidden agenda ...


Ah, that was prior to my getting her to admit it though,
I believe.

Sometimes an accusation or two shakes the truth out.



MrMark
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29 Jul 2007, 6:44 am

I feel like you're looking to commit suicide by mod so you can cry foul and say "I told you so." Free speech is reported to be completely protected on another site. That need is being served elsewhere. You told me that you heard/read/were told (I don't know which) that free speech was one of our core values here. What was the source of that information?


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calandale
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29 Jul 2007, 7:00 am

MrMark wrote:
I feel like you're looking to commit suicide by mod so you can cry foul and say "I told you so."


A fair thought. You're wrong. I'm worried that I shall
be banned, but this was an issue which I WAS fighting
against as a mod here. It just got a LOT worse tonight.
I value this site a lot, and this particular forum a lot.
I wouldn't have burned out trying to protect the essential
values here, and felt the need to step down. But, I do feel
that I have to continue the fight, from outside the staff, rather
than inside.

Quote:
Free speech is reported to be completely protected on another site. That need is being served elsewhere.


Obviously, it can't be completely protected here.
But, the form of thread drowning which is being
performed needs to be called out. One can even see
that threads which noted it were buried under the
onslaught, to hide the evidence, as it were.

I really think that the membership mostly see it
this way. Think if these actions were occurring in
other parts of the site?

Now, if it is decided that the types of speech indulged
in this section are unreasonable, THAT is a fair decision.
I don't support it. But, I could see the point - one which
kosmonaught was trying to make, when he got warned
away from his other trolling. Letting a member dictate
what is available, through spamming actions, doesn't
seem reasonable. Calling them on it, EVERY time that
they do it seems our (the memberships) only defense.
Quote:
You told me that you heard/read/were told (I don't know which) that free speech was one of our core values here. What was the source of that information?


I don't know that I put it quite like that,
but it certainly seemed an important concern
of Alex's, in his instructions to the moderators,
something I can no longer give you a link for.

This is the best that I can give:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... ht=#813929

alex wrote:
Bans are generally not used for anything other than spam and serious abuse. In the recent past, a couple of members were banned for bad language after an argument with a moderator. I did not approve of these bans. Other people also felt the same way as me.



MrMark
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29 Jul 2007, 7:28 am

Alright, let's back up a little bit here. Pandora, who has posted less than twice a day on average, came across an old topic that no one had responded to and decided to write a response. You immediately had a problem with that and jumped in there with name-calling, (a bannable offense when it occurs repeatedly). Personally, I never see anything new on the home page, so I apreciate it when people pick up an old thread that is of interest to them instead of starting a new one. Things esclated from there, a "form of thread drowning." Now I've been looking around and I've been seeing where you consistantly have a problem with Pandora and her posts. I'm not seeing where she's trying to silence anybody. I do get the feeling that you wish she would STFU.

So as your personal "fight," I don't feel it's appropriate for you to try to change this site to better suit you. This service is offered as is at no charge to members and without warranty. It is a take or leave it deal. If you do insist on trying to change this site, I feel that you should do so by bringing your supporters together and discussing it with Alex. The approach that you take is very close to "who thinks so-n-so should be banned." It's rabble rousing, an attempt at mob rule.

I feel this is a good point for me to mention something. Members do not have the right to do anything on this site. Only the owner has the right to do anything on this site. Members have the privilege to post, reply to posts, and read in the exclusive areas. They have the right to do so without suffering harrassment or personal attack. Priveleges can be revoked for repeted violation of the rights of members.


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Comet
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29 Jul 2007, 7:47 am

Everyone deserve's an opinion and freedom of speech.



calandale
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29 Jul 2007, 7:49 am

MrMark wrote:
Alright, let's back up a little bit here. Pandora, who has posted less than twice a day on average, came across an old topic that no one had responded to and decided to write a response. You immediately had a problem with that and jumped in there with name-calling, (a bannable offense when it occurs repeatedly).


BS. You don't tend into that forum.
This has been a semi-regular occurrence
recently. She has been pulling up large
numbers of threads, with an admitted
purpose of silencing discussions.

Quote:
Things esclated from there, a "form of thread drowning."


Not in the least. The thread drowning was happening prior
to my first post tonight. AND, this isn't the first night that
this has happened. There are a LOT of such posts.

Quote:
Now I've been looking around and I've been seeing where you consistantly have a problem with Pandora and her posts. I'm not seeing where she's trying to silence anybody. I do get the feeling that you wish she would STFU.


No to both of these. I enjoy debating with her.
I like to discuss issues. I don't like to see them
buried. THAT is all that I've objected to.

Quote:
So as your personal "fight," I don't feel it's appropriate for you to try to change this site to better suit you.


Not just me. All the members. I don't
want people chased from here, just for
expressing ideas. I don't want ideas to
silenced either by moderators, nor by
members.

Quote:
It is a take or leave it deal.


THIS is the attitude that you keep expressing.
And if the site were run this way, it would drive
a lot of people into leaving. I'm thankful that
Alex doesn't see it that way. He tries to provide
something useful, as opposed to demanding the
'respect' which you continually crave.

Quote:
The approach that you take is very close to "who thinks so-n-so should be banned." It's rabble rousing, an attempt at mob rule.


It is simply following Alex's suggestion that
the membership patrol itself. I see NO reasonable
alternative. I would have brought one up, earlier
when I was a part of the staff, if I had. I really don't
think that what she's doing is ban-worthy. It clearly
follows that a warning would be pointless (unless intended
to inflame members who don't respect authority, as you
put your purpose before). Given that, I can only follow
the idea of self policing. I think you'll see that the users
of that section will mostly agree. I think that if similar
tactics were used on any other section (except maybe
fun and games), the members would be outraged as
well.
Quote:
I feel this is a good point for me to mention something. Members do not have the right to do anything on this site. Only the owner has the right to do anything on this site. Members have the privilege to post, reply to posts, and read in the exclusive areas.


Your semantics are ridiculous. Read right as privilege
if you must then. Because you could use the same argument
towards Alex using his own site. He has the privilege to pay
for and allow people to post here. Don't be so silly. I know
how committed you are to authoritarianism here, but was
hoping that you had learned something.
Quote:
They have the right to do so without suffering harrassment or personal attack.


I made few, if any, personal attacks,
and only in response to TCO's own, much
harsher ones, on me. As to harassment,
the entirety of membership using that forum
was subjected to it - exactly as though it were
an atomika style attack. I am simply trying to
make that clear.

Quote:
Priveleges can be revoked for repeted violation of the rights of members.


And mods continue to make veiled threats.



calandale
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29 Jul 2007, 7:50 am

COMET wrote:
Everyone deserve's an opinion and freedom of speech.


Thank you.



Comet
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29 Jul 2007, 7:55 am

Why hide your opinion's just to keep other's happy.