Ever been to Voc Rehab? How was it? I hated it.

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So, had any kind of experience with Voc Rehab before? Was it worth it? In my case, I felt like it was very negative and often why I don’t like seeking people for help much. It seems to be designed for “normal” people who could work just fine before something happened to them, not people like me who had trouble from the start. First I got on the waiting list and they said they would get me into a workshop, which they did, after like six months. So I got in and had to do some really boring work almost all day while getting paid by how much work was done, which was below minimum wage. So it wasn’t a “real job” and supposed to be a training program for such, but in the back of my mind, I can’t help but wonder why I couldn’t do the “real job” like that and get paid a lot more.

I had to get up really early in the morning and go to a pickup point since for whatever reason they wouldn’t directly come to the house. I dad to stay on the van for about two hours with basically nothing to do except maybe catch up on some sleep if possible. Also had to wait about a couple of hours on the van on the way back home, which was just actually me getting dropped off at the same pickup point. So I either had to walk back or wait for my mother to pick me up. By the time I got home, it’ll be dark and I’ll have maybe around four hours of free time. Repeat this for five days a week and I felt my sanity slipping away. I would daydream about the many fun things I could be doing or at least getting paid more for the same boring work. Really, what’s the point of having a job that sucks away almost all my free time? It’s like I’m not really living if I’m just serving someone else most of the time. It’s also not like I had family or children to support to just basically throw away most of my free time. I feel that I got too many useful talents to just waste my life away doing something that anyone with working muscles can do.

I had a couple of problems at the pickup points. At a church, some guy said something about how women and children would come to the church at that time and if they saw me, may get scared and call the police. He said I should move to the other side of the street or something. Excuse me? While he didn’t flat out said it and may have even been trying to help me out (which I usually hate when people do), I would have been viewed as a criminal just for waiting to get picked up? Are you freaking serious? If those people showed up and called the cops, what case would they have against me anyway? I’m not allowed to stand and wait in a parking lot without breaking some kind of law? The guy could have just made the whole thing up.

After that, the pickup point was changed, but this time, I was standing around some cars. One guy decided that he didn’t like me standing too close to a car, so he told me to step away from it. Oh what, I can’t even stand close to a car without somehow being up to no good? So I just end up waiting on the grass. Not quite as big as the other event, but the rage built up from the boring work, the hours spent on the van, the low paid, the annoying people, and the lack of free time. It’s like I wasn’t welcome to simply stand around. Okay, so neither of these events are directly Voc Rehab’s fault, but I felt they could have been averted if they would just simply drop me off directly at the house, but no, they gonna have some policy where they can’t do that for whatever reason.

I never attended a full five days a week in a row there like I was supposed to like everyone else. Around a month later, the stress just built up to the point where I quit. Was it really worth staying in there for months and months with hardly any free time and losing my sanity? What good would a job doing the same kind of work had done if I already lost my mind?

So over a year later, I would attempt another program they had, where I would go to another city and stay in a building for almost a week where I would get training to get into intense college work or something like that. I was supposed to stay for at least four weeks, only going home during the day on Friday and coming in on Sunday. Basically, only one full day at home. I wasn’t at all used to being away from home like that. I would be in a dorm room with another guy who I barely talked too. I would go to the vending machines a lot instead of having lunch or dinner with the others, usually after they ate. People were expected to go into the swimming pool, but I didn’t want to for my own personal reasons, so I had to go into the gym twice per day. That reason wasn’t because of being scared of the water either like they thought it was. They would not stop nagging me about that. In fact, it was like they gone out of their way to nag me when I made it clear multiple times that I didn’t want to be bothered. Seriously, my level of anti-socialness must have skyrocketed while I was out there. When I don’t want to be bothered with, that means I don’t want to be bothered with! That doesn’t mean to try to “fix” it. During the first day, a woman about twice my age tried to cheer me up by robbing my hair. I hate being touched, especially by complete strangers! I could barely say hi and others got mad if I didn’t greet them back. I think having a laptop with me helped kept me somewhat sane during the whole thing, since I could go online and burn hours away. It was like the place was very anti-Asperger’s, not at all respecting how I felt.

After two weeks, I didn’t want to go back anymore. Some other random events later and I closed my case. Maybe I was just in the wrong Voc Rehab or the whole thing is entirely unsuitable for me. If they did one thing well, they sure did a good job of giving me reason to not have faith in humanity and bother with most places that don’t know what Asperger’s is. In fact, I don’t know how much of it was Asperger’s and how much of it was just my own personality, but I do know I hated the experience.

i'm sure glad to see i am not the only one who had an experience similar to yours, TheDeviantOne. where we differ is that 1] my experience wasn't quite as bad as yours, and 2]i was in my local program for almost a year, treated all the while like the mental defective that i was/am. it was humiliating to be talked down-to. i think the experience permanently warped my self-esteem even more than being bullied through school. at the end of it i felt very ready to be committed to western state [mental] hospital, as i had my spirit cut down to the same level of personal efficacy as an institutional inmate.

This program is clearly not suited for people with aspergers. The days are far too long, and the people there have no training to deal with aspies. Sigh....actually a lot of what you talked about reminded me of school. People nagging on me with stupid ideas about how to fix me by forcing me to do stuff. You have to be integrated gradually.
My little brother did a work program and they seem to have it down pretty good. He works 3 days a week 4 hours a day. He comes home pretty burned out after that, so I applaud you for being able to tolerate the hours you have. I wish I could advocate for you with them to help them understand your needs better!

These sound like just going-through-the-motions Voc Rehab. If instead, the program is teaching something like GIS, then you have a chance at it (although I understand a lot of these GIS jobs are now being outsourced to India). I've heard the trick with high tech is anticipating the next wave.

And it need not be high tech. It could also be something like air conditioning repair, if the program actually and realistically expects jobs to be available when you finish the program.

Or it could also be sales, that's tricky because there are so many rip-off sales outfits. The advantage to sales is the baseline. There are just a lot of sales jobs. (now, some of the "jobs" advertised aren't really jobs at all, they're MLM outfits selling kits). The distinguishing feature, a bonafide job versus a bs job, is that the bonafide job pays you during training. That's key. It's almost a litmus test. Another advantage of a sales job, just like I've read that the comedienne Carol Leifer is a shy person in her personal life and I think a fair number of show business people are, is that sales lets you build and develop your skills in a controlled settting. Just like I often enjoy a games party more than a party where people are just standing around talking. And the reason I emphasize sales is that a large part of a modern economy (20%? 30%?) is sales.

And it sure seems like these programs blame the person, instead of questioning and improving the system. Even during a "good" economy, unemployment is 5%. It almost seems like that is hardwired into an advanced, modern, corporate-controlled(?) economy. (Imagine if there was a 5% shortage of insulin and people went around saying, 'oh, it's a great market for insulin-seekers'? Well, that's exactly what we do with jobs!)

And of course these days, the economy is anything but good. The official, traditional unemployment rate is 10%. Something called the U6 employment, which includes such statistics as people wanting full-time work who are only able to find part-time, that is 16%. This is the situation for the United States.

And in the tradition of that great scene from the movie Spartacus, please allow me to say . . .

'No, I am a mental defective!'

I have my weaknesses, Oh, I do indeed have my weaknesses, and I have my strengths. And sometimes they are one in the same, like a coin flipping over. It all depends on the situation.

us "mental defectives" should stick together more.

Yes, indeed, we as "mental defectives" can stick together more.

Craig Kendall's new book that is targeted toward adult Aspies suggests Voc Rehab as a place to check out. From the sounds of it here and of course, my own experience, they are not very well suited to helping Aspies find a job that well, although surely someone here will debunk that. During those long hours at the workshop for five days a week, I felt that I would need a part time job instead of a full time job, but it seems like wanting part time instead of full time has a negative view toward it, like you're lazy or not putting in enough effort. If I had shorter hours for less days, I might have actually gone a lot further, if not made it through, to who knows what.

If the workshop was supposed to be a litmus test or a way to filter out those that couldn't handle whatever they planned on doing, I sure failed that aspect. It was like the pressure was put on the whole thing being my fault. Really, what was I supposed to do, somehow rewire my brain to keep up with everyone else and not get bored out of my mind? So a job usually is boring and people are expected to deal with that for years and years. However, I feel that wouldn't be a meaningful life for me, to just simply do the same tasks over and over that require no creative thought. I felt I had skills that could be put to use elsewhere and that going in that direction would have gotten me that kind of work instead of something more suited to what I can do well.

I don't know if the co-workers at any of those programs I been to knew I had AS, but I felt that would have made it worse, because they likely would have pushed even further to "correct my flaws" and treat me as "that special one". Really, they likely would have known me more for AS than anything else. A label and stereotype that could have led to people getting the wrong ideas. Surely the people I spoke to get into those programs, I had to mention having AS, so clearly they didn't know what to do with that information.

I am in the minority who is really happy with my Voc Rehab person. Everyone else I have talked to who has her as their counselor loves her too. She understands Asperger's, listens to what I have to say, and has given me some very helpful advice. Unfortunately, she is also based in my uni town, and I am leaving there for good next week. I hope that whoever I get for Voc Rehab back home is as talented and compassionate as this person is. From what I am reading on this thread and others, though, I'm not going to get my hopes up very high...

I was happy with my first experience through Voc Rehab when I lived in Tampa. They helped me get my job at Walmart, which I still have to this day (it'll be four years in july if I keep it that long.) But now since I'm in danger of losing my job, I'm currently going through them again here in Naples. So far I'm a bit iffy about this experience, but it's only been about a week. My counselor suggested I have a meeting with my HR person and my mother, in order to help them understand and perhaps find out how I can be a better employee. Thing is, they (work) said I can't bring my mother, and that the meeting will be with the HR woman and my store manager. But, my HR manager said that if I'm not satisfied with the first meeting, that I can try and arrange another meeting with her and either my mother or VR counselor. First meeting's on Thursday.


My dad seems to think the first meeting is a setup. Of course I'm nervous in spite of all that. I'm trying to remember, this IS Walmart. I've read things...but my mother has been helpful enough to compile some info and questions that I will bring to this first meeting. I'm not expecting much, other then for them to not care much.

Fehndrix, your Dad might be right. This thing might be a set-up. Or, them just going through the motions when they're already made up their mind.

2 vs. 1, that's just not a good dynamic. There's a messy, complicated situation, but they need to have a "good" reason to fire someone, so they formalize it. They dress it up in formal language. It can end up being a half lie, and the two managers can end up believing their own lie. It can be a very negative dynamic.

Or, the manager just wants to make sure that you take a previous situation serious and still has confidence that you can be a good employee.

Or, other things.

One thing I'd recommend, as a fomer poker player, consider a poker pause. 'So, you like your hand.' Probably won't give me a read on the other player (it might), but it gives me a pause. It's okay to fold, it's okay to call.

So think of a short phrase or two that will give you thinking space and breathing space. And almost the shorter, the more matter-of-fact, and the more plain vanilla, the better.

And if need be, be prepared to physically stand up, place one foot ahead of the other, and walk out of that room. And you don't even need to say anything if that feels like the right thing to do.

Same here. I don’t understand why other people are satisfied with appallingly boring jobs either. Nor why the so-called supervisors are so passive for a system which is clearly not working. And I’d definitely add jockeying around with the vans as part of the working hours.

Now, the thing with the intensive studying is more interesting. One, I don’t know why people are pressured to swim if you don’t want to. If you’re training to be a marine biologist, then maybe. Anything else, should be at your own choice. At a regular college, you’re required to take two PE classes your entire four years, and I think there’s all kind of exceptions.

Look, I’m not a big fan of intensive studying. I’m more in favor of the steady eddie approach and especially, especially pre-studying. Let’s suppose someone is scheduled to take geology their freshman year this upcoming Fall 2010 semester. They buy a used (and slightly out-of-date) book from Half Price with plans of skimming through it but only crack it open two times that Summer for a grand total of 12 minutes. You’d be amazed at how much multiplier effect that has! So, you’ve barely skimmed through it, read a couple of photo captions. Still, when that comes up in class, our interest is heightened. And the information is kind of in the back of your mind, mulling it over at your own pace. And the same for skimming a statistics book, a world lit book, etc, etc.

Then, and this is the artful part, you try and run one semester ahead. Roughly during the college semester, although you wind back and forth all kinds of ways, you spend your intellectual and studying time one-third, one-third, one-third. One third of classes this semester. One third on classes you’re probably going to take next semester. And one third on intellectual projects of your own choosing.

My first college semester was 1982 and most of the people I hung out with were from the dorm, and not classes or activity clubs, and that’s kind of a shame.

One thing, straight up, I would have done is gotten better at billiards pre-college. Would have kind of given me some street cred, plus kind of a structured social activity, and I’d win graciously and go fast (I’m usually slow and thoughtful on games).

I’d also take boxing. My big state college had an undercurrent of violence that was at times scary. Significantly more threatening than high school. It was like a throwback to junior high. It was guys that didn’t know each other jockeying for position in some assumed hierarchy, classic primate behavior like a group of chimpanzees.

The goal is tight defensive boxing to a draw, for you’re not trying to humiliate someone. And you let it escalate naturally, starts with a pushing match, push back same force, no more, if person about the same size, step aside almost like a judo move if they’re bigger. ‘You’re bigger,’ and you say it good-naturedly. ‘And you're not a bully.’ You let the two of you look at each other a couple of long seconds. Then you matter-of-factly walk away. Maybe. Or it plays out differently.

None of this is guaranteed to work. Us humans are far too complex. But I think it gives you the highest probability. Tight, defensive boxing to a draw. If a win comes, you’ll graciously accept it without bragging. You’d almost prefer a draw. ‘Sorry it had to come to that.’ That’s you’re attitude whether you express it verbally or not. (and don't get so into boxing that you take a bunch of blows to the head because post-concussion syndrome is real)


So, if I had to do it all over again, wake up as soon as my noisy roommate does. Study, eat breakfast, wander on my own, study some more. One morning class at around 10 am, mainly afternoon classes, some hanging in the dorm before and after dinner, then alone time in the library 9 to 10:30 before I went to bed. And trying to organize positive activities.

But it sounds like your rhythm is different, that you might need more alone time, which is perfectly okay. And then in an environment where people are pushing, pushing, pushing. That’s a lousy environment. I have a heck of a hard time distinguishing between goodnatured teasing and mean teasing. I think most people do. And I think the two often kind of blur together.

Much better is joking about something on TV or football commentary, or an outing that kind of constitutes a mini-adventure and gives a shared reference and something to talk about.

And the funny thing, kind of sounds like Aspie behavior on the part of the woman! All sending, no receiving. Something big, dramatic, and expecting some kind of automatic response.

So much better if she would have simply put a hand on your shoulder, and leave it there one-thousond one, one-thousand two. And later, she has ample time to kind of feel her way, does he like being touched or not? And it's pretty clear, it's pretty obvious if she lets it be obvious. No, no, he doesn't like being touched, and that's fine. I'm going to respect his choice. And then, she lets a medium mistake remain a medium mistake. She doesn't touch you anymore.

So, as it turned out, Aspie behavior on her part, or any other cause that leads to similar poor communication.

I was with Voc Rehab starting sometime early/mid-2009 and i think it helped a bit . . . at least to control my depression. I recently got a job through a staffing agency that worked with VR. Granted, it's not something i want to do the rest of my life (due to physical, sound, and deadline stress not to mention a developing case of carpal tunnel), but I have little choice in the matter. On the up side, it's close enough to what i got my Assoc. degree in so i cannot complain too much at the moment. It really depends on who your VR adviser is and his/her personality (mine was a fun guy, good to joke around with and whatnot).

I've been, but not for help finding a job. They are supposed to help pay for a portion of my college tuition, maybe buy me a computer. But I haven't been very pleased with them either....we've had to call them nearly every day to get an answer out of them and when I explain my medical/health problems (not AS) they just don't 'get' it. It's just annoying.