Degrees are Unimportant?

Post Reply New Topic

I have noticed something that deeply offends me in the technology field. I have a Master of Software Engineering degree which I have worked extremely hard for. I work with someone with an MIS degree who has ruined the project because he doesn't understand even the basics of systems design. After a year, I have finally quit (yay me) and they are considering a person to replace me with a GED. The person who is interviewing, who has no technical knowledge at all, thinks that they can't look at qualifications and that they do not matter.

Am I in some sort of twisted hell here, or do others find this to be true? The person interviewing has a degree in Bio-Chemistry and I asked her if she felt that if someone can just pick up Bio-Chemistry without a degree and she answered, "No." Is there something special about the Computer Science degree that makes it a joke and useless? Did I waste my time and fantastic amounts of money?

I thought Software Engineering did not encompass systems design. (It is more the domain of people with Computer Science and MIS degrees).



Are you confusing Computer Science with Software Engineering? I hope so--I'm a second-year CS major, and I know that there are some differences between the two in terms of what job opportunities are available, although I'm still not totally sure what the real-world job market is like. From what I know, Software Engineering is primarily programming and software project management, and Computer Science is systems design, database design, research, telecommunications, hardware, robotics, artificial intelligence, and etc., things that require lots of math. I've heard that programming and software project management jobs are harder to come by these days, unfortunately, and pay less than the jobs for a computer science degree. (Part of the reason for this is that programming can now be done more easily--by simply dragging and dropping components into place in an Integrated Development Environment.)

How has your job search been going?

Hi, Xon,

I have a BS in Scientific Systems as well, which is where I got most of my database design, etc. However, this particular Software Engineering degree went into things like Project Management and IT Leadership as well. At the Master level, it is all about designing systems, not coding (they assume you know that already). But, I went to a particularly good college for this. I don't know what it is like elsewhere.

Damn that must be frustrating!

I'm going to study nanotechnology, which really is a field that is impossible to work in without the qualifications.

However I picked it based on my obsession with it.

Anyway, they must realise your knowledge is far in advance of someone who vaguely knows the topic?

Unfortunately, I work for a consulting company which does not get direct experience with my work. Apparently, they feel a GED and an MSE are equivalent. I'm really insulted by that, but such is life. They'll learn real quick the difference.

to be honest, not having a degree in cs doesn't mean you can't be a good software engineer. there are so many good programmers w/out a degree and tons of bad programmers with degrees. this goes both ways. so a degree isn't as important in the cs field

That is usually what I hear from engineers without degrees (I don't know if you do or not, Alex; it is just an observation and I mean no offense). The problem is, without the degree, they don't know what they don't know and that is always dangerous, particularly in such a knowledge-based field.

actually, i'm majoring in computer science but I do know that what subject I get my degree in isn't going to have an impact on my life. In the working world, you don't need a degree in CS if you're good, especially if you've graduated college. I've heard this from people with degrees and people without degrees.

And people who do have degrees don't always know what they don't know either (that sentence is awkward but I'm just using your original phrase). Plus, Computer science isn't a knowledge based field. It's an ability based field. Certain people think like programmers. I'd rather have a programmer-type working for me who doesn't know anything about the language than a guy who doesn't think like a programmer but knows all about the language of the project i'm managing.

I respect and understand your point of view.

The artistic director of my college theater department has the lowest schooling of any of the faculty (only has his BA while the others have either MFAs or Ph.D.s), but he is so freaking good that it doesn't matter. In addition to teaching, he is a highly respected professional director.

If you've got the gut and are really damn good, I think you can make it without the advanced degrees in many professions. Unfortunately most people won't give you a chance to prove yourself without that pesky little degree. I know that unless I get some amazing job shortly after I graduate from my undergraduate program I will be going for my MFA. I also find that school is a great place to make contacts.

I have an instinct to not continue this thread, but I'm going against it at my own peril. Doesn't a degree OBJECTIVELY show a level of discipline that is desirable? When I see a person with a GED that did not go on to college or the Armed Forces, I see a person who is undisciplined and not likely to have what it takes to succeed. Yes, there are some exceptions to the rule, like Bill Gates. But, is it logical to throw out a rule from a few exceptions? Unless you do not think that such people are an exception but, in fact, make the rule. Then, you would have to accept that people who get degrees are just as disciplined, or even less disciplined, than people who do get degrees. If you accept that argument, then you at the very least marginalize the value of the degree, if not even make it a negative? I have run into a situation where a person said that people with degrees are too "Book Smart". Of course, the project was failing terribly because the person did not have even close to enough knowledge to do the project correctly. They did not know what they did not know and so they plodded on (and are continuing to do so) year after year, losing the company money with a disaster of a project that would not be there if the person knew what the degrees teach.

Any sort of IT degree is extremely helpful for getting your first job. After that I've found that experience, resume and interview skills are more important than the sheepskin.

Rightly or wrongly, many people view computer programming skills the way they view English language skills. People who work in science and engineering are simply expected to be able to do both at the level necessary for the job whether they have degrees in English and Computer Science or not. Personally, I would not want to work for a company that couldn't tell if a job required a GED or an MS, because things are almost certain to go wrong and guess who will get the blame--blame is an office politics thing determined by largely by nonverbal communication skills.

I think the main disconnect is because people think software engineering is about knowing the language itself. Syntax is easy to learn, but not how to conceptually build a system that works.