Devastated - please help!

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My son only recently diagnosed with ADHD, AS age 12, I spend many years of trying to get the school, GP, local services etc anyone that would support my child. They all kept telling me there was no issues whatsoever with my son. I was the crazy mother that everyone wanted to avoid.

My son now has OCD which I think devloped as a coping mechanism because of the the stress of everyday trying to fit in. I dont try and make my son fit in, I always encourage him to be himself but he has that strong need to fit it. I am hoping he will get to the point and say screw it I am going to be me.

Only people very close to our family would notice my son's differences, I have so many different opinons that I question things over and over and used this forum to get a lot of answers. Some I dont like, some I dont understand, some I dismiss etc but I am learning thats what matters.

Just because your son can mask his difficulties, doesnt mean its not effecting him, my son suffers from terrible mood swings, to sudical thoughts we are the only one's that gets to see this. The years we lost trying understand/get a dx his needs have defintely cost. I am sure he will receive another label for the above.

academically no issues had a very good report his first year in post primary, but the stress of school was devastating on him and the whole family. The school continue to look at me as that crazed mother. I had to disclose his sudicial intentions and he was having panic attacks in school, going to the bathroom on his own crying. (which I didnt want to but just to get them to listen and accept he has problems AS, ADHD etc).

With all this going on he was still able to achieve very high standards in his sports, especially around Athletic's he is the 3rd fastest in our country for his age in sprint and long jump etc.

Stop wasting time accept, move on, you and your son are lucky, you son is young and he can recieve support now. Dont waste years of fighting what you can't change.

I was thinking this morning, reflecting on why this post is bugging me so much I just had the strong feeling that it is too early yet for all this talk. Goodolddays' son was diagnosed in May - that's YESTERDAY. I think this is quite a strong point and I really want to underline it. ( In my own experience it took ages, I mean YEARS and YEARS to really accept and process the fact that my daughter really did have something that needed a different kind of approach. Some people just take longer than others and I was one of them. My daughter is 13 now and only now is it truly sinking in. Some days I get cross and still expect her to behave like an nt).

I mean it's obviously not for want of using every logical approach and persuasive argument under the sun to get the op to see how her son needs need to be met differently, I think we can safely say here every angle has been covered.

Goodold days you seem to be feeling quite panicky and threatened , and perhaps it's because it's just all too much too soon. Yesterday your family lived and breathed in the nt world, today you've been thrown into another world and are expected just to accept that's how it is. (Yes I know we all live in one world but you know what I mean.)
I found your analogy with the New Born Christian movement quite fascinating, but I don't go along with it, because all that stuff is going on blind faith against your intellect whereas what we're going on here are actual signs and symptoms that you have informed us about your son and yourself, plus the many years of experiences had by memebers of this forum.

No of course we dont know you or your family, nobody knows each other here and only go on what they tell us about themselves.

I dont expect you to accept this, what I am saying now, Goodolddays, and in fact I would be a bit shocked if you did. Please don't feel patronised by this. I'm saying it more for the other posters who have written so much, and that I wouldn't be suprised if the years passed and you came back to this forum, ( maybe when he's ten or twelve ) perhaps viewing things differently then. On the other hand, perhaps you'll never come back, who knows.

You completely missed Tracker's point. He didn't say you don't know your son. He said you don't really know Aspergers.

My oldest daughter IS High Functioning Aspergers. You know what? She still has the problems that Aspie kids have. She is so much more socially inclined that I ever was, but there are social aspects that she does not get, and those "lack of awareness" issues lead to bullying and harassment that she doesn't even know is happening because she thinks she is part of the joke. Her father had said many of the same things you have said about your son. He tried to get her to conform. When her grades did not improve (only) because she did not do her homework (or she lost it), he decided to take her out of band. Band and the trumpet is her passion. She has not said much on this forum, but if you look up NaturalFireWave, you can see a little about who she is. Socially, she does make friends, but they come to her. She does not go to them. She does not know how to go to them. Since she has friends, people do not think she has a social problem. Her best friend disowned her because she said that she did not see gender, and told her friend (as an example) that she did not see her as female. This friend assumed that she had meant that she saw her as male, became offended and now has disowned her. She is discovering who her friends really are and who is not. She clings to those who are her tormenters, and doesn't even know it. I can see it, and when I point it out to the teachers, they see it too. You have to realize that with children, it is subtle.

I have another daughter (who is also on here, but I don't remember her sn) who when she was your son's age was the model of a social butterfly. The girls liked to be around her. The boys thought she was "cute." This continued until about 4th grade. She just finished 5th and has told me that she is not liked and she does not understand why. She has friends, but they are ALL on the spectrum, or they have a sibling on it. They understand and accept who she is. She is starting to see that she is different, which for her is hard because she is a perfectionist and she is not perfect (in her mind). I have to reassure her that she is acting in a normal way for herself.

My youngest is the most popular in her class. She has so many "friends" there, and one really good friend, but you know what? She never goes over to anyone's house and no one comes to hers. She has no desire for this. She would much rather play in the corner by herself. She is perfectly contented with it.

This is a clip of my children playing one evening. Forgive the clip being sideways. I took it with my phone and didn't know it would be that way. On the surface, they are perfectly normal, but in private, they show little quirks.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfMgpamBM9E[/youtube]

Anyway, the oldest's dad pulled her out of band, and she crashed and burnt. He did it because "he loved her" and thought it was the best thing for her so that she would learn the consequences of her actions (not doing her homework). This almost destroyed her. I had been fighting for custody of her when this was going on, and by the time I GOT custody (9 months later), he had pulled her out of lessons (this was the only thing besides the actual trumpet that she had left). I received custody a week later and put her back in. Again, he was teaching her a lesson for not cleaning her room (There was one item on the floor that she reasoned that it didn't matter because of one reason or another. I actually agree with her that leaving it on the floor made sense, but I told her she still should have picked it up because that's what the rules were).

This child was suicidal. When she first felt this, she was only 11. She tried to fit in. Her dad thought he was doing the right thing for her. She tired and tried to do everything to make him happy, but she could not. She just wants him to be proud of her. It really makes her sad that, to her, he doesn't seem to care.

She really is a good kid, and from what you describe, your son is as well, but he has his quirks. He seems more like my youngest in that she has outbursts that are more physical that desperately emotional. You are correct though. I do not know your son, but I do know my children and have seen what happens when someone (especially a loved one) tries to fit them into a mold they cannot do. It's like trying to place a square peg in a round hole. You cannot do it, unless you cut pieces away from the round peg and make it square. But by doing that, you have damaged and destroyed what it is. It can no longer be a round peg. It is no longer what it was meant to be.

The post I made before this one telling my "life story" as you put it, was not to tell you about me. It was to give you an idea of what children and parents go through with children on the spectrum. It is a look into some of the things your son sees and what might happen if he is forced to be NT (or to fit it). I will say that trying to fit into an NT world is not a bad thing, but how one goes about it is wrong. You have to ease someone into it,a nd allow them to learn. Do not demand that a child do something he can't do. I can't remember if it is from this book or not, but there is a book called "The Gift of Dyslexia" by Ron Davis. It does a very good job explaining what a child with a visual processing problem goes through. I am not saying your son has this, but some of the examples he gives are very pertinent to autistic children fitting into an NT world.

The example I am thinking of (it may not have even been from this book) went something like this (I added the end about walking): Imagine you had a bicycle with broken tires. You are at the bottom of a hill and you are told to ride the bike up it. You try and try, but you cannot go any further than a few feet. The tires will not let you. The people in the background keep telling you that everyone can do this, and you can as well. They are trying to be helpful, but all it does is make you feel like you are not like everyone else and must be a failure. You are coaxed and encouraged. You are patted on the back when you make some progress, but you still can't get to the top of the hill. All of your friends are already at the top, but they have working and full tires on their bikes. You do not. You have a choice. You can work harder (and totally exhaust yourself) and actually try to make it up that hill, or you can give up. Then someone with a bike like yours comes along and walks it up the hill. You are shocked. You thought there was only one way to get the bike up. It didn't occur to you to not ride the bike at all, but to walk it up. It is so much easier to do, but it isn't the accepted way. Had you tried to ride it up, you would have possibly hurt yourself. Instead, there was another way that still accomplished the goal, but made it much easier fort he circumstances you were in.

I do not tell you my experiences so that you understand me.I show you them so that you can see what happens to someone who is Aspie and does not get the help needed.

As for the being told you have to be right or else, I know where you are coming from. You do have to understand though, an autistic individual tells it like it is. That's why we come across as rude. It isn't meant to tell you you are wrong, but to plead with you to try to take a different approach with your son. I know you love him and I know you want what's best for him. You would not have stayed through 18 pages of messages if you did not. I don't know what else to say. I speak in metaphors and examples. Giving an actual explaination of what is on my mind would probably take me about as long as tracker, and I would need to nap afterwards. lol.

Whatever you do and however you decide to raise you son IS ultimately your choice. Whatever you decide, I wish you and your family the best of luck.

I am sorry that you seem to misunderstand Tracker. He IS speaking to the issues of the high functioning / borderline Aspie, because HE is a high function / borderline Aspie. If he wasn't, he couldn't be where where he is at the age he is, having gotten about zero supports all his life. MY son is described EXACTLY as you described yours: tested borderline, naturally social, etc. I speak to you from what is an extremely similar situation, yet I do have concerns. My main difference from the others here is that I'm unsure if my concerns come from your inability to speak gently, which is obvious, or because you really don't get it. I do know this: your perspective is likely to appear to your son exactly how it has appeared to Tracker, one AS person trying to read the intent of another AS person, and thus I have tried to warn you about the potential damage of the language you like to express.

You don't want your son to be like you BIL, but why is your BIL's life such a bad thing? He has a job, from your telling, it sounds like a good one, and he's just missing the social. And with that, you haven't said if it was always his nature or if life beat him down into it. The later is a real risk: I see it happening to my son despite all the academic supports in place, despite social skill classes, and despite all the positive things we and others have done for him, despite how wonderfully social he was as a toddler. I can only conclude that despite everything we've done, life really is still THAT hard for him, and I wish to death I knew how to "fix" it, but I don't. I can only say that I don't think words like yours would help; they'll just accelerate the process. PLEASE watch your WORDS.

I still think you need to take the time to go through a version of mourning. Skipping that step inhibits your ability to SEE, and you are only skipping it out of something similar to stubborn Aspie determinedness, that same force of will that kept my son from ever acknowledging hurt no matter how injured he got. I think you've got it in spades, and I am sure it has often served you well, and it will in the future, but THIS moment is NOT the time for it.

I've been debating whether or not it would be productive for you to read our "Raised by an Aspergers Parent" thread. Generally, I hope that none of our AS parents read it, because by the sheer fact they know they are AS, and are talking here, I tend to believe they won't be like the parents written about. There is a lot of bitterness there by the grown kids who found the thread, and as a moderator here when it started I really wondered if it belonged here. But there has been healing there, too, and better here with some buffer than many other places these discussions take place. ANYWAY, I spend a lot of time in that thread getting people to remember the good things about their parents, but there is an underlying grain that is what I think you need to hear: the biggest frustration is parents locked into their view of the world, and never really hearing what is said to them by the kids, even though they insist they do. Parents unaware of how hurtful some "honest" things they said were. THIS is the concern I have from your writing in this thread, and I don't know how to get you to hear it. Are you REALLY "seeing" when it comes to your child? Will you HEAR him? Bear in mind that he can't express himself accurately, either, and there will be a long road helping him do so, but how patient are you going to be scratching through the layers, and will you realize that you've still got layers to scratch through?

As I noted earlier, I can totally see nearly everything you've written as coming from my dad. I loved him and I miss him to death, and at times he was brilliant as a parent, but a lot of things he did, very much believing they were right, and despite all the love behind them ... Backfired.

Our situations, yours and mine, are not as different as you would like to believe. I don't know how much you've read of my posts because you don't really address me, but I hope you aren't discounting them outright, or only taking to heart the few sentences you like best. I am sorry this thread got so contentious quickly, but I also admire that you stuck with it for 17 pages: that can be your greatest asset as a parent, or your worst enemy, and I mostly want you to realize when it is the later as as it relates to your son, so that you can do different at the key times.

I think, if you met my son, you'd adore him, and would think to yourself, "yes,I'll be happy if my son is like that at his age.". Shoot, the high school IEP team was so impressed they couldn't wrap their heads around why i was concerned about him being placed in a magnet program that emphasizes teamwork. I know what worked for him, what is working for him, and while I haven't killed every demon for him, I know for sure what would NOT increase the odds. He's not pandered to, but he is honestly and truly understood. It's EVERYTHING.

So please don't give me this stuff about my writing not really applying because you all are high end; we are, too. My husband and I both have masters degrees, careers, social lives, own our house in a nice neighborhood, a little bit of AS in ourselves ... My son is considered borderline AS. But I still had a journey to go through and there was so much to learn that I could not have figured out without people like those posting to you. There is much benefit you will miss if you continue to read but not hear. No, not everything applies, and some people have been too harsh based on too little; but there has to be more that does apply than you are accepting. There is much to learn from those who have it tougher than our kids do, because they live the same difficulties so much more deeply.

I have now invested more time than I had, and need to help my son pack. He's spending the week at Stanford for a special program, he wants to learn more programming. And I've got client work to attend to after that, a financial problem to rescue. And my daughter is still waiting for mommy to do her nails with the polish she got at a party yesterday.

And that sure is a long way from "devestated..."

No - most people here are not devestated - or have gotten over it. Because they learned. Alot of people offered to he[p you get to where they are now but that does not seem to be what you want. I still can't figure out what it was you were looking for with this original post. Someone to commiserate with you? Someone to support your methods? Someone to agree with you that your son's life is over unless he can seemlessly fool everyone into believing he is NT? If you present a problen and ask for advice - and don't want to hear the answers - perhaps you shouldn't be asking the question until your are ready to listen.

And, if six months from now you revisit here and chance asking another question - peopel here will welcome you with open arms and do tha same exact thing... desperately try to answer your questions. You don't have to be scared. You don't have to go it alone. And your sure as hell don't have to reinvent the wheel. There is more experience and practical information here than you'll find with any doctor, therapist or book. You just need to be in the frame of mind to hear it.

If you go back and read your posts only perhaps it will be a bit clearer where this thread went off the rails. Perhaps not. Either way - best of luck to you.

Addition: I finished reading Tracker's book.

Here's what the book reminded me of: long before I found out about my son's AS dx, I used to spend many hours, on and offline, arguing EXACTLY for the kind of parenting Tracker prescribes in his book!! Ironically enough.
I only managed to attract enemies telling me that I live in an outdated, "pastoral" world and that I don't know how to keep up with the demands of modern days!!

In my opinion, what Tracker wrote is not a manual for parenting the Autistic Child.
It is a manual for the sane parenting of ANY child - a rare occurrence in our rush-rush, turned-upside-down world.

If the risks were pushing my child to go to stressful noisy parties; insisting that he be on a sports team; dragging him from one organized activity to another all day long and stressing the heck out of him in the process all in the name of achieving trophy after trophy; pushing him to hang out in large groups with popular kids when he'd rather be at home reading on his own or playing chess with a close friend (make it geeky friend...though my son himself looks anything but geeky); taking away down time...or what have you - then we NEVER had a problem in the first place!

This almost makes me laugh...because I would in fact PREFER that my son will NOT do most of the things above and most of the things American parents seem to push for, per Tracker's book. Unlike most parents here, I grew up in a culture that was highly suspicious of sports and equally appreciative of a single close friendship as it was of friendships in a larger group.
In fact, the former type was probably considered much deeper and more precious.

Athletes were "something" to entertain the lower-end masses but not something you really wanted your child to become; not if you were middle class and up. . This is mainly because they were associated with low IQ-s (rightfully or wrongfully so). Given my cultural conditioning, I could not care less if my son will never get coordinated enough to play ANY sport - though right now he has an amazingly strong long-distance shoot for soccer; but he is so poor with dribbling, passes and getting the ball that I never spent one single second thinking that he might somehow end up playing soccer or any other sport.
I sincerely do not care. Unless he begs me for doing any sport, I could not be bothered.

Everything Tracker suggested in the second part of his book was EXACTLY how a cousin of mine was raised. Another geeky, philosopher-type, introverted child who only had one single friend in his entire life and who was raised by his grandmother and an aunt with severe mental disabilities. His highly educated parents were close by too and part of his life, but they were just not living with him on a day to day basis. All he ever did as a child and young adult until his 30's was to sit in his grandmother's bedroom and read. Again, this man would have had an AS dx plastered all over himself today.
As a child, I also remember him speaking to me in sophisticated, grown up words, without ever looking me in the eye.

He is now the husband of my country's ambassador in Spain - he himself with a big wig position in the Embassy.

In any case...the more I read, the more I realize what a huge understanding gap had set in throughout these 18 pages. Oh, well.

Tracker, wonderful book again!

Tracker, DW & everyone else who has spent time on this post

I truly hope it is as Catbalou says, it is very early in the OP's learnng curve and that the effort put in will eventually lead her to see some of the extreme contradictions in the statements she made here. I can only hope that in the long run her son will benefit from the time spent by so many experienced and knowledgable people.

Wow, after reading this thread, I can say that I truly admire the wisdom and tolerance of the posters on this forum. Everyone else has said it so thoroughly and well that I have nothing to contribute except my 237 cents of brutal honesty.

Dear OP, your thread is not about AS or a child with AS. I cannot tell from your posts if your child is likely to have AS. Your thread is about one thing only:

YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU

My only suggestion is that for the well-being of yourself and your family, please get some help from a mental health professional as soon as possible. A good therapist can help you work through your issues with your son's diagnosis. In therapy, as you will come to find out, empathy - for yourself and others - is the first step.

It it all boils down to cultural differences, this huge gap in understanding, and it's looking more and more like that is the case, well, do you think proffessionals from your same country or cultural background would better be able to understand where it is you're coming from with this problem? (I wish you'd say where it is you come from, if you're in US now it's hardly going to identify you. )
But however differently kids were dealt with in your home country, and however many (by the sounds of it) wholesome experiences they had growing up, well unless you go back in time a or go back to live there, it's a different ball game you're dealing with now over here. This is the culture you're in, that your son is growing up in, and the advice you're given will be from the western mind set.

That cousin, who spent his whole childhood reading in his grandmothers bedroom, sounds like he turned out okay. Sounds like he was pretty much left to get on with it, and there wasn't any trying to change him.

But another thing, is that kids are different in this generation generally from how we were when growing up. I'm not quite sure where I 'm going with this point, but it seems worth saying. I've often thought, "I NEVER spoke to my parents that way, (when I've observed nt kids or my own daughter ) or, we had NO tv and I always had stuff to do, I never said I'm bored all the time like my daughter does. I was happy and excited with only a few xmas presents, she and other kids want so much stuff all the time.
This is an age old time worn endless cycle thing about how good things were in the old days (yes your name says a lot), but this is the time we're dealing with now, this is the generation, and those are our memories and not theirs. Fast forward 40 years and they'll be saying the same thing. I suppose the point I'm making with this is again, your old memories of how it was done there and how wonderful everything was, well they're not relevent to him. And believe me, when he's a teenager he'll let you know.

I'm still left puzzled though, because we seem to have gone round and round in circles, and all of a sudden it's like there isn't a problem any more with your son. Or not one that any one here can help you with. So where to now?

I think cultural gaps are worth discussing, talking about, enlightening each other about, dont just sigh and say cultural differences, ah well, lets leave it at that.
I understood quite early on that a lot of your word choice was sometimes due to english not being your first language, which is not to say your english is not amazingly brilliant, because it is. I had to reach for the dictionary once of twice myself, and it is my first language.

goodolddays again you miss the point, Many posts have made comments about how intelligent you are?

My POINT

is that regardless of my child's difficulties that when he does something that he loves he does it to a high standard, fully committed despite the stress it causes him at times. It doesn't matter what he chooses I am not interested in social class low/middle/upper maybe you need to come off your high horse or has your sons possible dx thrown you off?

This posts or misunderstanding is not about cultural difference, again its down to social acceptance for you its seems you are trying the reach the upper maybe you are already there? You seem to think the your sons possible dx is going to put you back down the ladder, or maybe make it impossible for you to climb it?

I agree with btbnnyr get professional help for yourself!! !

I don't buy the cultural difference excuse. I live in Europe. Most of my friends/acquintances are from Eastern Europe. My husband (also aspie) has worked extensively with eastern European countries as part of an EU research group. I have found far more acceptance, understanding and compassion from these people than I've ever had in my home country. My husband will happily tell you that too.

I am just trying to figure Goodold days out, what is the missing piece in the puzzle. She seems to focus a lot on the differences between the east and west and how never the twain shall meet. But perhaps we ought to drop the whole thing now because its become just speculation.