Asperger's parents and NT children

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i absolutely did not paraphrase. you said specifically that "there is that little touch of evilness in NT children".

children are not evil, not NT or ASD or otherwise. i am not going to say no child anywhere at any time is evil, as i do believe some *rare* people are born without the ability for compassion, empathy, morals, etc. but mischievousness is not evil, it doesnt have the same intent, and its a natural part of being a child.

but to make a blanket statement that non-autistic children are evil? no, thats a horridly offensive generalization. and its no more accurate than if someone were to say your child was evil because he hurts people due to his inability to lie to spare someone elses feelings.

children are not born knowing everything we know as adults. they arent born knowing the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, and how to navigate their way in the world. that is something WE teach them or they learn through experience or from maturing. thats what you are doing with your child, what i am doing with all of mine, and what most decent parents do with their NT or ASD children. nearly all children go through a lying phase at one time or another. a lot of it has to do with testing boundaries, as i previously mentioned. its one way they explore the world, how it works, and learn about consequences. its a *normal* part of childhood development. it doesnt make them evil.

btw, my NT son is much more empathetic, compassionate, and nice to others than my classically autistic son. those things come naturally to him, where they dont with his brother. he is a truly nice kid who likes everyone, and has been commended by his teacher for how nice he is to others. it doesnt make his autistic brother evil, either. it just makes him more in need of teaching.

and if you end up with an NT child, and they test the boundaries with lies or say something mean to someone else, then you do what the rest of us do with our NT kids. you teach them how to be better people.

Thank you Janissy for understanding what i meant, and for the helpful advice ( reacting without understanding first...i should try it ) And for the NTs who felt attacked when i basically called them "ex-evil people", i can understand how it would be recieved as an aggression, so i apologise, even though that's not really how i meant it but....nevermind

I'm glad you started the thread. You got a lot of good information which I wish I had heard when I was raising my son. Unfortunately no one had even heard of Asperger Syndrome so most people just accused me of being a poor parent. It would have been nice to have a community to get knowledgeable help.

for the record, i did not feel attacked.

what i felt was my child being attacked. you essentially called my child evil. doesnt matter whether you are an ASD adult on a message board calling my NT child evil, or an NT adult giving my ASD son dirty looks in the grocery store for displaying ASD traits. doesnt even matter that i am NT; if my ASD partner heard someone calling his NT son evil, he would rip them a new one, too.

this thread was weighing heavily on me yesterday. i have a hard time accepting that i have to fight so much to get my ASD child accepted and not blamed for his neurology that he cant help. it stings even more when someone in the same position as i am then lays blame on my NT child for his neurology that he cant help. we cant accept one and blame the other, for things that neither of them chose or control.

i apologize for taking it so personally; thats part of MY neurology that i cant always control. i just get so tired of having to fight for my kids, i tend to go mama-bear pretty easily when i feel any of them is being attacked.

Actually I lied when I was kid to try and stay out of trouble and it never worked because somehow my mom knew and I had school mates who always tattled on me. I also used to make up stories too to get attention.

I am sure there are NT kids out there who don't do these things but I will tell you there are ASD kids out there who do do these things because we're all different and also human. Also as a child my lying was unintentional too because I didn't understand what the other person was thinking or what they meant because of how I processed information. Like if I did something the day before and then the next day the situation was brought up and the person failed to mention"yesterday" I would think they were talking about today so I would be saying I didn't do it. So I am sure to other people I was lying to stay out of trouble when in my head I really did think I didn't do it. I still do this sometimes but I have gotten a lot better at it.

As you can see by the posts that followed your original question about NT's and Aspie familial relationships - you've got an uphill battle. NT's and Aspies grate on each other.

I am in the same boat - I'm a 48 year old NT daughter with an Aspie father who is now 78 years old. My son is 8 with Aspergers. After bringing up the subject in direct and indirect ways, I now try to just accept him as he is. I do not go to him for advice, or emotional support - as I have in the past with very bad results that left me feeling vigorously unwanted and neglected. (Now I know that was not his intention - but that was the result....)

We get along best when we relate to each other on HIS terms. I can only do this in small doses without emotional self-injury, so I keep our interactions limited. He is much happier with this, and I'm happier because I'm not banging my head against a wall trying to get something he can't give.

For him to accept that he has Aspergers would not solve anything, change anything, or in anyway improve the relationship we have. Since he's 78, my childhood's already been lived and he can't change it - so why go there.
I visit him and he talks about politics. I listen, ask pointed questions, and try to be agreeable. If I need him to do something, or help me in some very specific way - I tell him and he usually does it, happily. So I've limited and edited my expectations and behavior.

Now that i said i was sorry, you finally bite back upfront, trying to make me feel even more guilty nicely played. I'm not blaming NTs for their neurology, i know there's nothing they can do about it. I was not talking about your child. i was talking about mine and the traits that i couldn't handle, if she grew up to have them. I would not feel attacked in the least if you said you couldn't handle a hyperactive kid stimming at the top of his voice the whole day, even if you called those kids "those *insert bad word* hyper gremlins , i would just want to * insert physical assault there* ", even though my son definitely is one of them i can understand why some traits are hard to bear.

oh i wasnt trying to make you feel guilty, not at all. maybe make you think more carefully about what you say about other peoples' children, that i will concede to. and definitely trying to correct the false assumption that i was offended and felt i was called "ex-evil people". =P

interestingly enough, it never once crossed my mind that you could possibly be talking about ME. i am not diagnosable, but i have a few asd traits myself (thats where my oldest got his, as my autistic SO is not his bio father). i was never considered "normal" as a child by any stretch of the imagination, not by myself and certainly not the other children. adulthood hasnt changed that any.

39 years of being a freak or a geek, and this is the only place ive ever been accepted as being "normal", and then im lambasted for it. you just cant win these days.

Mariposita, I'm 23 and quite possibly AS (I just don't want to go through the hassle of getting diagnosed or having to spend that huge obscene amount of money doing it).

I know I'm not the ideal person, but here's my two cents.

I recently had a conversation about love and how to show it with my girlfriend (NT). For her is all about hearing "I love you" and for me is all about showing it in practical ways. I probably should say "I love you" more often, but I sure as hell (can I say hell?) show it in actions. I get her meds when she's ill. I pick her up from classes. I drive her around when she needs to. That's love to me. I wouldn't go over that much trouble for someone I don't like or love (and I actually don't).

What I mean to say is that your mother probably feels deeply for you but only shows it in a practical way (like someone pointed before, at the very beginning of the thread). My mum is like that. I don't get hugs or words of affection, but I do get my meals on time, money to buy things I want from time to time (want, not need), and she also provides me with all my basic needs. She worries when I come home late, she picks me up from school when I'm too tired to get my self home. I show her my affection in much the same way. I pick her up from work when she's too tired to get herself home. I go grocery shopping now and then, to leave her some free time. I always let her know where I am, because I know she gets worried and immediately thinks I'm agonising somewhere on the streets. My mum and I are alike on that regard. My girlfriend is not. She's more like you (without any sort of offence intended). So I go out of my way to show love in the way she expects me to. But, here's the main reason why, we have talked extendedly about me quite possibly having AS and we have both made compromises when it comes to this sort of things.

As for your mother. You might want to download a fact-sheet where some major symptoms are described and say it like this "mum, I found this on the internet, can you please read it and tell me what you think? I think it applies to you in some parts". She'll probably appreciate the directed-ness of the gesture. It might work. However, before doing anything of the sort think if it's really worth it, because it can backfire tremendously and make her think you just want to put a label on her for the sake of it (I don't know if that exactly -I haven't met your mum). Just remember that in the end, you still have to accept her just the way she is.

[Hope it makes sense! Just try to review your relationship with your mother in the past and try to look for that practical-love I was talking about, it should be there, and remember that now that you know what it might be, you can change the lens you've been using to see your mother and lower or raise (or maintain) the expectations accordingly. Best of luck!]

I'm not trying to be mean or anything but I do not understand your logic here.

First, you said children are not evil.
Second, you're saying that some people are born evil and you believe this.
I see a contradiction here. I do not understand. Did I misinterpret you?

huh i didn't "lambast' you (whatever it means :S) , i merely explained AGAIN what my real point was. But no, i'm not going to repeat it a third time, sorry, just reread my previous post. Do you really have to try and imagine what my motives are when i specifically stated them? I'm not out to get you!! leave it alone! your child is perfect!!

lol, if you want to see the whole argument crumble a little more, ask the definition of "mischievous"

my comment was made in regards to the blanket statement that NT children have evil in them.

i did not say some people are born evil. as you can see in the quote, i said "i do believe some *rare* people are born without the ability for compassion, empathy, morals, etc." the lack of those things does not make one evil, either as a child or an adult. evil is a result of actions performed. there is such a thing as psychopathy, and those people did not spring into being as full grown adults, therefore i cant discount the possibility of a rare child having the potential for evil. however, that does not equate to all NT children having evil in them.

i dont generally provide a glossary for my posts, if you need edification, http://www.merriam-webster.com/ is readily available. =)

No, i mean, just , no. The lack of those things is what makes people evil. No morals, no compassion and no empathy. ok. what more do you need to be evil then? i can't think of anything, once you have no morals and no compassion.....a lack of taste for chocolate?

and then you say

I mean i don't know what you mean anymore.

I thnk I may know what azurecrayon is saying. Azurecrayon, please tell me if I'm wrong or not. I think what she is saying is that evil is when you perform an action that is wicked or depraved. The action is what makes the definition. I think what she is also saying is that some children are more inclined to perform an evil action than others.

I believe we have different definitions here.

you may be right, i do define evil by character and potential, not necessarily actions. Otherwise, i talk of an evil act, not an evil person.