Finger Guns

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What does corporal punishment have to do with kids playing?

Nothing--I was addressing someone who thought these rules have to do with political ideologies, and I as just explaining that in conservative areas(I used the example of our district--and I thought the fact that there is corporal punishment here would illustrate that it is a conservative district) the same types of dumb rules exist.

A friend of mine's kindergarden kid was suspended and almost expelled over the same thing. It's ridiculous.

In this context, what do you mean by pro-social?

By pro-social, I mean they like the kids to absorb and follow certain rules that make them easier to control. They want to teach and not deal with discipline issues, which I get, really, I do. That said, part of the point of school, in the lower grades is managing social relationships through play. Kids don't always play in goodie-goodie ways. I don't know if you have ever seen any of the shows on PBS that are designed to teach children how to act, but those shows are pro-social. The conflicts have to do with very, very mild situations where maybe one kid is being a little selfish or whatever, but everyone in the cartoon is basically a good person and all the play is "safe" and benign. Real kids do not typically act or play this way.

What has been happening (in part b/c of school shootings and in part because they are attempting to promote a pro-social atmosphere as described above) certain very NT forms of play and expression are no longer allowed. You can't pretend you are a cop with a gun, chasing a "robber." You can't pretend anything that in real life would be considered violent and dangerous. Depending on if a school is zero-tolerance (Just what it sounds like) the kid could get in real serious trouble even at 4 or 5.

For autistic kids who are attempting to be social it is a landmine out there b/c they are told all the time to play "normal" games. These games, that schools are attempting to ban, are "normal" games. NT kids have t least a chance of knowing when to play them, and when not to. Autistic kids....not so much. In addition it is not unusual for guns or the history or strategy of wars to be a special interest. So if they do a special interest brain dump with those kinds of interests, they can get into trouble for that, too.

Stupidity in the school system is rampant. Even the private schools now simply don't want to deal with kids they can't just stick in a room and leave to their own devices. I have been homeschooling my aspie son for a week now, and he has never been happier, never worked harder, and thanks me every single day. Even today, when my husband was home doing school with him while I was at work he called me to thank me for getting him out of school.

I don't understand where the "no play guns, no play superhero" idea comes from. I live in a very liberal area and I don't know anyone who doesn't think that sort of thing is absurd.

You mean shows like Arthur and Calliou? Ugh those shows make me feel a bit uncomfortable...not sure if I'd watch them if I were a kid though back in the day I did watch Davey and Goliath all the time.

All through elememtary school I used to bring a big bag full of Star Wars figures, GI Joe, dinosaurs, dragons, etc to school every day. Some kids meticulously planned what to wear each morning, for me it was picking out what toys to bring. I will give you three guesses how we played with these toys. Would I be expelled for this sort of thing today?

That was the point I was (clumsily) trying to make to the person attempting to bring politics into the discussion. This stupidity has absolutely nothing to do with political ideology. It happens in various places, regardless. Not all school systems get sucked into it, either. Again--regardless of the prevalent ideology in a given place. I don't know why some people have to make everything about politics even when it is not.

Last edited by ASDMommyASDKid on 10 Oct 2013, 1:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Unless you happened to have a reasonable school (in which they'd probably ban your toys after the first time) then yes.

I just put my two older boys back in public school from homeschool, and they aren't even allowed to wear hoods. Their coats can be manufactured with hoods attached, but they aren't allowed to wear the hoods on their heads, even when required to stand outside in winter before school and after lunch. They also aren't allowed to wear caps or anything else on their heads. We're lucky that it only gets really miserably cold a few days a year here. They also aren't allowed to carry backpacks. They're supposed to bring their books home everyday, but aren't allowed to have backpacks not even the see through ones. It's not like we're in some gang violence riddled inner city either. It's a town of 25,000 surrounded by at least 50 miles in every direction of even smaller towns, rural farmland, and national forests.

Once when I was in high school (and by timing, this was shortly after Columbine) a boy a couple of years older than me left a rifle in his gun rack in the back glass of his pick up. He'd been squirrel hunting over the weekend and forgot to take it out before driving to school on Monday. About 3rd period he remembered it, and because it was only a very short time after Columbine he was nervous about what would happen if the maintenance guys saw it (the senior parking was close to the maintenance shed). He went to the principal's office and told him about it. The principal's response? Go park your truck across the street off school property and be more careful next time.

Typical response from today? Call the bomb squad and SWAT team and arrest the guy! I don't believe at all that a similar situation would be handled so sensibly today, even in the same school.

Yeah--Arthur, Caillou, Clifford that kind of thing. I think (some) schools are unrealistically expecting kids to act like that in real life.

It depends on where you live. Our school district, here, is heading down the zero-tolerance road, (although not quite all the way there, yet--but I am still glad we are out of there) I have no idea how prevalent it actually is. Various news outlets will highlight a ridiculous example every so often, and I had assumed they were outliers and that was why they were news worthy. Reading some of the comments here, I am not sure.

We are out in nowhere's ville, too. They have not banned hoods or hats (yet) but they have 2 sets of textbooks for the older kids; one for class and one for home. This way they don't have to have lockers. I guess they make them hang their coats up in homeroom. I think they are allowed to have backpacks for their papers but I could not swear to it.

Who comes up with these rules? Who thinks it's a good idea? Little old ladies? I really don't get it.

I wonder whether the school overreacted because DS is different, and they're afraid of different.
He attends a very, very small rural school.

I think the way these rules are applied amounts to a form of child abuse and the people who do it should be barred from employment involving contact with children.

This may at first seem like hyperbole, but I am quite serious.

There are many people who seek employment in schools and day care in order to have a captive group of victims over whom they can exercise power. If the school is residential or permits teachers to take students to secluded areas alone, the result is typically sexual abuse and physical sadism. If the rules prevent this, these people settle for mental abuse through threatened punishments, public humiliation, and verbal abuse.

I could post thousands of links to cases indicating that this horrific pattern is almost universal. You don't have to be a catholic church, scout troop, martial arts school, summer camp, elite boarding school or athletic team to have these evil parasites infest your organization. You just need to have children. These people work in schools because they follow the logic in the famous bank robber's quote often attributed to Willie Sutton: Q: Why do you rob banks? A: Because that's where the money is...

The twisted personalities that need to find gratification in abuse go to schools because that's where the children are. Arbitrary and unfair application of stupid rules should be a red flag about the personality of the authority figure.

It occurs to me that this post may sound like an over-reaction. Nothing like that could be happening at our schools! So, a few links:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... mmon_.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karin-kas ... 03566.html
http://nypost.com/2013/10/05/touching-f ... y-schools/

There is much. much, much more evidence of this out there. I don't feel like upsetting my stomach just before lunch, so I won't post anything more about it, but please do believe that this is routine and pervasive. While it is possible that the "finger gun" thing is a case of adults being stupid, I think it is very likely that it's a case of an adult being abusive and then getting backed by the system--because this happens every day.

Last edited by Adamantium on 11 Oct 2013, 12:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Yippy Skippy: Yeah, I would not be surprised if a there was a double standard in some places in how this stuff is enforced thanks to the school shootings. Some probably do enforce it uniformly if instructed by their legal counsel.

Wreck-Gar: I don't think it is just little old ladies. I think it is risk-aversion (and laziness) trumping common sense.