Will she get social skills from her friends?

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So, here's the main thing I take away from all that: She was just diagnosed recently.
She's going to be gong through a whole bunch of mental readjustments right now, and things might just get worse before they get better - my suggestion would be to realize that you don't need to push the "help" idea too hard right now, as there is plenty of time for that later... when she may be more receptive to considering it. Right now you just ought to be there to listen - and really listen to her WORDS as specific and direct things that are telling you an unbiased inner opinion (don't listen to her as "oh well she's saying it that way to comfort me or exaggerate to make a point" or as "well that's just an over-emotional response to a simple thing we all fear"). Also to encourage her to explore what her differences might be, so that she can understand why people seem a bit crazy at times.

You've already noted one difference she has, yourself, above (though it may or may not be related, it's a good topic):

"has arguments because she takes things the wrong way" - have you pointed that out to her? or just to us?

The other thing I'm going to mention might be more specific to myself than to your daughter, but since you also gave us "bad temper that flares up regularly", you might investigate this too (is it really anger or is it confusion/frustration coming across as anger?):

People often tell me I'm angry (or that I sound angry) - and for the longest time I would just blow it off, because they were wrong. They were either family and I figured they were "taking it too personal" OR they were "jerks" and I didn't care about their "jerk" opinions. They were actually wrong, too. I was LEGITIMATELY not angry at the time I was accused of so being. (Listen to my words, as they are, don't look at me and tell me I'm protecting myself or that I'm denying a fact; I honestly and fully investigated my emotions, and was not angry... despite the accusations!). This went on all my life, until I was in my mid thirties.

Then (recently) someone who had no ill will toward me, someone who was completely outside of my former world, yet whom I respected fully and intimately, interrupted me one day and asked "do you realize that you were just yelling at me?" - and I was floored. I could not conceive that I had been yelling, and I hadn't even been angry - certainly not at this beautiful creature - and I had only been telling a frustrating story about an event which was 3 years in the past. But this time, this person, who had no reason whatsoever to lie, or fabricate, who had absolutely no connection or agenda, no link to to anyone in my past, was saying what they had all said - "you: angry!"

But she said it in a way... she said it... she offered it to me. She offered me the insight that I sounded angry. And it suddenly hit home that people all my life had not just been jerks when they accused me of being angry, or having anger issues. It wasn't their imagination, it wasn't them trying to put me down or tame me, or whatever. People had actually been saying it as they heard it. That I come across sometimes as angry. They had been wrong about the fact (of me being angry), but their reactions to me had been consistent with what they heard/saw in my body language... TWO sides, contradictory realities... yet both right!

And in offering this insight to me, I saw this truth! And I saw it because she was NOT accusing me of being angry, but rather pointing to it in a way that was allowing, or understanding, that I was not actually angry with her. She realized I simply I sounded like I was.

And so, in my 30s, I realized that I actually do come across as angry MUCH more readily and much more often than other people. And it isn't always that I am angry (in fact I don't feel I get angry very often at all), much more often it is that I am frustrated, or interrupted in a pursuit (or from a waiting pattern) or something, and my response is curt, snappish. Or I am relating an experience that left me confused, frustrated, LOST. And I am letting the confusion into my body language or voice (or both) - I'm not really sure, because I have never had a chance to talk to someone about it... but it isn't an ANGRY outburst or flare.. it is misunderstood confusion!

And I spent all my life denying that I came across this way, because the people pointing it out to me labelled it "anger". Told me I was angry when I wasn't... which led me to throwing out everything else they said at that point as being hogwash, stupidity, unhelpful, useless.

Which is a long way of saying:

Make sure you don't label her as angry when she sounds it. Watch her and figure out if she's really actually angry, or if it's just coming across that way because of confusion or frustration. Go roundabout and ask "What is making you use an angry tone right now, are you frustrated by something?". Always remember to ask why a "wrong" reaction happened, and trust in the honesty of our self evaluation. And our words as they are, by dictionary definition, not through a filter.

**************

Sorry that turned into a bit of a rant / sob story. I have considered simply deleting the whole thing, and apologize if I've inadvertently stolen the thread but I went back and read your post again, and I think some of it might be helpful. Maybe. So I'm going to push submit.

Triplemoon18,

OddFiction has some wise words for you. Both my father and my brother have gone through life with angry faces/voices that do not match their internal state. My brother has gotten better (I think) of recognizing when his face does not match his feeling, but he grew up with everyone (including me) thinking he was always just in a bad mood.

Another thought I have: my kids have angry outbursts for 2 totally different reasons. My daughter is 8. She misperceives the intentions of others and often perceives them as negative when they are not. She also has a tendency to see any comment directed toward her that is not positive as a personal attack. Her teacher is aware of this tendency and intervenes before total blow-up happens and helps her cognitively walk through other explanations for the person's behavior. If the issue gets too big, she goes to the school psychologist, who she has a really good relationship with, and works through it with him. This is very hard for her, as she is good at figuring out the intentions of others when she is removed from the situation. But when she is in it, she has such a hard time. She also has angry outbursts because she has a tendency to always think she is right and she gets mad if this is questioned. The stuff from the Social Learning site is good for this.

My son, on the other hand, has angry outbursts for totally different reasons. He is very aware of his deficits. Often, when confronted with the result of one of his deficits, he appears to lash out at the person bringing it to his attention. It looks like anger directed at the other person. What it really is, is anger toward himself that is spilling over. He gets very frustrated with his inability to do the things he is "supposed to be doing" (i.e. the things his peers can do), and the longer you try to talk to him about it, the more frustrated and angry he gets, and the more he lashes out. Once we realized this, we figured out a solution. When something happens that is a result of his deficits (lost homework), the adult points it out to him as a statement (XXX, you did not turn in your homework), instead of a question (XXX, where is your homework?) because the question causes my son to have to start explaining, which then upsets him. My son is then to simply offer a solution (I will do it during study hall today and turn it in.) This works so much better.

The point is, understanding where the outbursts originate from will help you figure out what to do. My son is about the same age as your daughter, but he was diagnosed when he was 7, so he has had a lot of time to learn to adjust and become comfortable with it. My daughter is 8 and still does not know she has a diagnosis, just that her brain works differently. So, I would imagine your daughter is probably in a space more like my daughter's in that she has not yet come to terms with what this means. I do recommend the Social Learning stuff (sorry to keep bringing it up), because I think it is very accessible and concrete and you can use the language to help your daughter, even if she doesn't actively see she needs help yet.

One more thing: my son's deficits are largely invisible to adults. Everyone just thinks he is a sweet, charming kid (he is). It is his peers who pick up on his differences. Here is another link you might find helpful: http://www.socialthinking.com/images/st ... 206.12.pdf
I think it really explains why my son looks normal to many adults, but does not pass with his peers.

There are a lot of nuances, and so much to learn. But as you start immersing yourself in study, the pieces will start coming together. Hang in there!

ASD mommy - I do have copy of the report, but it seems to mostly be her teacher's observations in class. I tend to wonder if she just finds her extremely disruptive and see things worse than they are. Also, with her twin in the same class, I know she has had a hard time dealing with both of them. Last year, she only had my ASD daughter in her class and now she has both, with all their drama. They are often in conflict with several girls in their class, each and every week. As for her sister letting me know how she is doing - it would depend on the given day. Some days she is very understanding and helpful of her sister and other times, she is jealous of the ASD diagnosis because she can go for breaks out of the class throughout the day and she seems to get away with more.


Oddfiction - Thanks for giving me some food for thought. I do feel that she is displaying anger because she will tell you she is pissed off because of what people are doing. Sometimes she may be confused, as she is just learning about sarcasm and when people are joking. Her report said her coping skills are that of a two year old and that becomes apparent when she is angry. I do find that she is less angry at home than before, so I guess we are having some progress. So many things irriate her though, so it is hard to tiptoe around her and avoid all blow ups. For example, she can't stand the sound of people eating. You can try your best to chew slowly and quietly and put the tv on to block it out, but she will still yell at you for eating like a pig. I try to get her to put on these big headphones to block the noises out or to leave the room, but she refuses. So meal times can be really hard to get through amicably.

I think you are totally right about mentally adjusting to the diagnosis, I know I still am. Her twin is too. That is great advice to hear that I do not need to get help for her yet, as I feel like everyone is pushing me to put her on every waiting list to get her the help she needs. I am exploring options and trying to see what would work for our family. I also realize that if my daughter is not cooperative, it won't be very helpful to get her in therapy, etc. Perhaps I will wait and see if she gets into the ASD program next year for high school because that would be the most useful thing I think.

In this together, I think my daughter is similar to your's in that she has trouble figuring out people's intentions and tends to view people's behaviours as intentionally trying to piss her off. I will look into the social stories website link. I find so many things have to be explained to my daughter, like this weekend she said that her and her sister were both really ugly kids and that they looked much better now that they are teens. Her sister got insulted and kicked her out of her room and my ASD twin did not understand why this would be insulting to say.

I totally agree with InThisTogether, about finding the source of the anger. I have actually done my own spit and twig versions of FBAs where I do an virtual autopsy of a home behavior so I can analyze it in a more objective way. It is going to be hard if the school is not doing a good job of it, but often you can see patterns at home and apply them if you can manage to get enough facts from someone present.

triplemoon18,

If you verify that your main problem is that she cannot understand people emotions or reactions or whatever, then you can target the specific issues. I don't know why everyone is pushing so hard for you to get on every waiting list, unless it is that hard to get into programs and there is a very long waiting time.

Especially, for the things you have to pay for, I would rather find out specifically what she needs, and then decide if it is best worked on at home or if you need professional help. That gives you time to get her buy-in and convince her she needs the help if that is the case. Getting the correct kind of help is just as important as getting it, in the first place.

Even with the school-provided assistance. We actually had a speech teacher that would do things a certain way knowing full well (she was told by his teacher) that they set off my son's triggers. She was just not going to adapt what she did. This was "help" I did not need.

If she's 13 then please do see if you can get her some cognitive therapy. It will help her learn the subtle body language and voice tone 'meanings' that she may be missing.

I agree with the above assessment that when at home kids (heck, people in general) behave different than outside. Its your safe place. Outside she may have social anxiety or sensory overloads (these can be small but build up over the hours... think of it like the water-droplet torture... its nothing until you hear the damn thing for hours on end and it makes people snap).

I know my hearing and smell issues are worse on stressful days.
Does she ALWAYS complain about eating sounds at table, or only later in the day, or on busy days / days where she doesn't have control?

I know my mother used to send me up to play with my lego for about an hour and a half before dinner preparation, then had me come down
and help her cook. These were very calming activities - probably not only the tactile involvement but maybe more the predictable schedule - and maybe it would help your daughter to set up a similar "break in the day". Sort of like a "recess" at home.

Does she have her own place in the house where she can retreat and not be bothered by anyone?

This "spare" time to engage freely and uninterrupted in personal pursuits might relax her enough that she can better control (self-suppress) her sensitivities to sound stimuli during dinner (or other meals).

Oddfiction - she is most sensitive during breakfast and I believe this is stressful for her because she doesn't want to go to school or do the chores on the weekend. She does have her own room now and has since the end of September, so she does put herself in there to play video games and watch wrestling which are two of her special interests. Sometimes she is really overwhelmed, but is lonely, so she gets mad at us, but does not want to be away from us. That is the worst.

Dantac - yes I am trying to get her some cognitive therapy to help her and you are right that she probably behaves worse and has a harder time when not at home. She does often tell me how much she loves her home and her room, so it is a sanctuary for her.

ASD mommy - that is true that I should try and figure out just what she needs before I sign her up for anything. There are long waiting lists though and I do not have the money to pay for things privately, so I have to go with the free government - based programs. I guess I just feel like I have to rush out and get her all the help she needs because she is already 13 and how will we ever get her ready for adulthood on our own? But really we are still just getting used to her ASD diagnosis and what this means for us at home and the school is figuring out how to work with her at school, so I guess we will eventually get it right.

It all depends on the individual. Myself, growing up I was quite resistant to social skills training, as I didn't see the point of it, and I thought that all the formalities of social interaction that they tried to teach me were stupid. I managed to learn a few things through real-world experience, though truth be told, now that I'm older I kind of wish I hadn't completely ignored what they tried to teach in my social skills training. If there were some sort of college program where I could learn the intricacies of social interaction and learn how to "act" NT, I would definitely take it, provided they treated me like an adult and not like some child.

Mr Bigmouth 502 - do you think I should force her into programs for her own good? I know you did not see it as necessary when you were younger, but do you think you would have learned new skills if you had to attend a program?

No. If you force her into programs to teach her social skills, she will simply resist, and it will actually make things harder for her later on. Instead, offer to let her attend one of these programs, and if she says yes, then there you go. If she turns it down, simply accept it. You can't force someone to do something they don't want to do, especially an aspie.

..but in contrast, her choosing not to go means she will be losing out on critical knowledge at this early age.

Definitely it is all about how the therapy takes place (have them treat her like an adult not a child is a great thing) and having a talk with her about how important it will be for her and her future happiness to be able to pick up these social cues she is missing.

There's no reason to sugar coat it... it will not be fun and at times it may be annoying but if you can talk her into at least trying it out for 4 months (assuming 1 session per week) she may find it helpful when interacting with others -and- help her get a nice boyfriend later on (if she's already interested in boys...if she is she may be jealous other girls already have one and her social quirkiness is working against her on that).

She has to socialise with people who share common interests . This is the way that she would learn.She will have to socialise with those people,when she sees that they can give her something interesting ,while she does what she likes.