Risperidone? Helpful or not? if so, how so?

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Drehmaschine
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19 Feb 2014, 7:40 pm

antipsychotics for a child of 3 years?? That one specifically makes some boys grow b00bs.



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19 Feb 2014, 8:04 pm

Drehmaschine wrote:
antipsychotics for a child of 3 years?? That one specifically makes some boys grow b00bs.

Where I live (northern California) I've being seeing late-night ads from some personal injury lawyer soliciting for cases of boys who were given Risperdal and had that happened. Maybe there's some class-action suit against that drug building up.

Drug companies have come up with a lot of new drugs in that class in thelast 20-30 years. It also seems like they're ttrying hard to expand their use to conditions other than psychosis.

I'm no expert, and this is just IMHO but the problem with that class is that it will basically 'cure' any behavioral problem -- because it damps down ALL of your behaviors. If you give someone enough you get the "chemical straight-jacket" effect where all the person can do is stare at the wall like a statue. So, if they were running around and causing problems then the drug will "work." . I don't think you or your doctor are using it in that extreme a way, and I think that in some cases it may do more good tham harm -- I just think that people can be subtly, unintentioanlly mislead into tthinking that the drug has some autism-specific effect when it
doesn't.


[Sorry for the typos. I'm on a mobile device and have fat thumbs.]



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19 Feb 2014, 9:08 pm

I've got a friend whose son is 16 and she just started him on it. It's helped him a LOT! However, whats a 3 yo doing to need it? She started him on it cause he's huge and tall and strong and his meltdowns were getting to be too much. It's helping him. I did put both my boys on ADHD meds when they needed them but I waited until they were about 7 or so.

What reputable dr puts a baby on meds like that? And what is he doing at 3 that you can't handle? I'm not saying you asked for him to be put on it. I'm saying that you need to grab up your baby and run far, far away from that so called dr. And throw rocks at said "dr" while you are doing so!! !

I'm all for giving kids meds if they need them, but even I can't wrap my brain around that one. Girl, for real. Take your baby and get away from that quack.


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equestriatola
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19 Feb 2014, 9:13 pm

I took it for a few years, and it did kind of help me, but I stopped after last year because it was giving me nosebleeds. Once I stopped taking it, the nosebleeds stopped.


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19 Feb 2014, 9:24 pm

I, personally, would never give a heavy med like this to a toddler, but you can read about it for yourself: http://www.rxlist.com/risperdal-drug/in ... dosage.htm. I would suggest continuing on to the next page and look up the definitions of the side effects. Then you can determine if his current symptoms/behaviors are so severe that you are willing to risk the side effects.

You asked about other things. When my daughter was around your son's age, she had a lot of extended tantrums and some self-injurious behavior. For reasons completely unrelated to GF/CF diet (I didn't know about it), I dramatically reduced her dairy intake, and then eliminated it. She stopped head-banging and no longer had that spaced-out look on her face. She also began responding to her name. Turned out, she was not able to digest the casein in milk.

I found learning about sensory integration issues to be most helpful, because it helped me figure out what was setting her off in the first place.

I wish you luck. And FWIW, I did medicate one of my kids for his ADHD. I know what a hard decision it can be. I just recommend that parents become fully educated and well-versed before they make a decision either way, and not to trust your doctor to walk you through it. Most don't. It's up to us to do the research, and while I think the opinions/experiences of others are a part of the information to consider, we need to actually look at the drug's track record, safety, and side effects from a more removed, analytical point of view.


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19 Feb 2014, 9:42 pm

Something else, I'm not a big diet fixes it all person but what helped my oldest when he was 4 is we took him off all sugar. All processed sugar that is. We bought all that hippie, natural, organic food and crap. He got no candy. It really, truly helped him. It fell by the wayside when he was about 6, but by then he was able to deal with regular food. Try getting rid of sugar. Sounds simple, but it's not.


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Niall
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19 Feb 2014, 9:59 pm

@ Feralucce. I was putting a list of references in a text file ready to copy over when my laptop crashed. Will have to wait. I agree citations are needed. I do have them. Broadly, if you run a search on something like "autism neurology differences" they start to come up, both in terms of actual physical differences in the brain and in terms of fMRI and EEG variation (something I almost discovered at uni many years ago, but failed to realise the significance of, because I didn't know I was an Aspie).

@ some of the rest of you: Correlation does not imply causation.

Just because you take a drug and then "feel better" does not necessarily mean the drug made you feel better. I had a similar argument with someone who told me that she gave homeopathic "medicine" to her dog, the dog got better, therefore homeopathic "medicine" works (the best that can be said here is that is showed she had some grasp of the placebo effect). Homeopathy has been shown to be bunk, over and over again, so it's far more likely the dog got better anyway.

Let's take a somewhat more extreme example.
Increasing rates of autism diagnosis correlate with increased rates of consumption of organic food.
Increased rates of consumption of organic food correlate with global warming trends.
Global warming trends correlate with increased levels of piracy.
By the argument that correlation equals causation, pirates cause autism.

Ludicrous? Of course it's ****ing ludicrous, but it's the same logic that gave us vaccines cause autism, which is more pseudoscientific twaddle.

Is there some evidence that Respiridone decreases irritability in some individuals (by turning them into a fat zombie staring at the walls)? Yes. Is there clinical evidence it does anything else beneficial?

That would be a flat no. There may be individuals who take the drug and then see a change, but there is precisely no evidence the drug caused the change.

Note InThisTogether: some people have an allergy to cows' milk. This can cause some serious symptoms. Self-injurious behaviour is not on the properly reviewed list of these symptoms. While it is distinctly possible that your daughter has a casein intolerance (I am not going to argue with a clinician on this) the fact that she stopped self-injuring after ending consumption of casein does not mean that the inability to digest casein was responsible for the self-injurious behaviour. For a dumbed-down explanation of this see, for example http://www.allergyuk.org/downloads/news ... ort_v5.pdf

There is a roundabout, untested theory about how casein might relate to autism symptoms, but it's very uncertain at this point.

I know many parents grasp at straws when looking for things that will help, but pseudoscience and insisting that someone got better after doing X, therefore doing X may help others to get better is not helpful and may be damaging (vaccine fiasco!! !!). Okay, get unhealthy rubbish like cows' milk and refined sugar out of your kid's diet. Great. Will it do anything for autism? Probably not.


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OliveOilMom
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19 Feb 2014, 10:05 pm

Niall wrote:
@ Feralucce. I was putting a list of references in a text file ready to copy over when my laptop crashed. Will have to wait. I agree citations are needed. I do have them. Broadly, if you run a search on something like "autism neurology differences" they start to come up, both in terms of actual physical differences in the brain and in terms of fMRI and EEG variation (something I almost discovered at uni many years ago, but failed to realise the significance of, because I didn't know I was an Aspie).

@ some of the rest of you: Correlation does not imply causation.

Just because you take a drug and then "feel better" does not necessarily mean the drug made you feel better. I had a similar argument with someone who told me that she gave homeopathic "medicine" to her dog, the dog got better, therefore homeopathic "medicine" works (the best that can be said here is that is showed she had some grasp of the placebo effect). Homeopathy has been shown to be bunk, over and over again, so it's far more likely the dog got better anyway.

Let's take a somewhat more extreme example.
Increasing rates of autism diagnosis correlate with increased rates of consumption of organic food.
Increased rates of consumption of organic food correlate with global warming trends.
Global warming trends correlate with increased levels of piracy.
By the argument that correlation equals causation, pirates cause autism.

Ludicrous? Of course it's ****ing ludicrous, but it's the same logic that gave us vaccines cause autism, which is more pseudoscientific twaddle.

Is there some evidence that Respiridone decreases irritability in some individuals (by turning them into a fat zombie staring at the walls)? Yes. Is there clinical evidence it does anything else beneficial?

That would be a flat no. There may be individuals who take the drug and then see a change, but there is precisely no evidence the drug caused the change.

Note InThisTogether: some people have an allergy to cows' milk. This can cause some serious symptoms. Self-injurious behaviour is not on the properly reviewed list of these symptoms. While it is distinctly possible that your daughter has a casein intolerance (I am not going to argue with a clinician on this) the fact that she stopped self-injuring after ending consumption of casein does not mean that the inability to digest casein was responsible for the self-injurious behaviour. For a dumbed-down explanation of this see, for example http://www.allergyuk.org/downloads/news ... ort_v5.pdf

There is a roundabout, untested theory about how casein might relate to autism symptoms, but it's very uncertain at this point.

I know many parents grasp at straws when looking for things that will help, but pseudoscience and insisting that someone got better after doing X, therefore doing X may help others to get better is not helpful and may be damaging (vaccine fiasco!! !!). Okay, get unhealthy rubbish like cows' milk and refined sugar out of your kid's diet. Great. Will it do anything for autism? Probably not.


I don't agree that she should be giving that baby that strong med ok? But this s**t you said is insane. What you do when you get a headache? You take a Tylenol? Why? It don't make you feel better, does it? You lay down in a dark room? Why? That can't make you feel better. You do accupressure on that spot in your hand? Why? That don't make you feel better.

Thats a seriously crazy premise. For real.


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19 Feb 2014, 10:17 pm

The difference is that there are studies that show that paracetamol (what you call Tylenol) does cure headaches. Now, it may be that the headache would have got better on its own but, in the case of paracetamol, it has been shown in double-blind clinical trials to work as an effective analgesic. We even have some grasp of the mode of action. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15662292

The same cannot be said of some of the pseudoscience touted around here.

I know that far too many Americans are utterly ignorant of basic science ( http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 31721.html ) but I really don't get why it is so difficult to get simple principles like this through some skulls.

I want off this planet...


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19 Feb 2014, 10:25 pm

Niall wrote:
For a dumbed-down explanation of this see, for example http://www.allergyuk.org/downloads/news ... ort_v5.pdf


Thanks, but I don't need a dumbed-down version. I have actually researched this extensively myself and have actually even (gasp!) read articles in peer reviewed scientific journals!

Your opinion is an opinion. It may be a researched opinion, but it is an opinion, nonetheless. You don't know my daughter. She was experiencing pain and discomfort and had no way of communicating it, as she was nonverbal at the time. She resorted to headbanging as a result, or so I have extrapolated from my direct experience as her caregiver. Please refrain from presuming you know more about her than I do.

Now I am just getting snotty, but to be honest, it is because I am offended by your assumption that I need a dumbed-down version of anything. It's arrogant and I do not respond well to flagrant arrogance, and I am tired and burnt out, so I should stop typing now.


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Niall
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19 Feb 2014, 10:25 pm

Remedial explanation of the randomised controlled trial here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomized ... lled_trial

NB: the RCT is the bare minimum I would expect for a decent clinical trial. It is still possible to conduct a bad RCT, either deliberately or by accident. These are, in fact, very common, especially in pharmacotherapy.


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19 Feb 2014, 10:28 pm

Niall wrote:
The difference is that there are studies that show that paracetamol (what you call Tylenol) does cure headaches. Now, it may be that the headache would have got better on its own but, in the case of paracetamol, it has been shown in double-blind clinical trials to work as an effective analgesic. We even have some grasp of the mode of action. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15662292

The same cannot be said of some of the pseudoscience touted around here.

I know that far too many Americans are utterly ignorant of basic science ( http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 31721.html ) but I really don't get why it is so difficult to get simple principles like this through some skulls.

I want off this planet...


Get off your goddamned high horse. And you brits are no smarter than we are. We got Bill Gates! So f**k you!


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Niall
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19 Feb 2014, 10:32 pm

InThisTogether wrote:
Niall wrote:
For a dumbed-down explanation of this see, for example http://www.allergyuk.org/downloads/news ... ort_v5.pdf


Thanks, but I don't need a dumbed-down version. I have actually researched this extensively myself and have actually even (gasp!) read articles in peer reviewed scientific journals!

Your opinion is an opinion. It may be a researched opinion, but it is an opinion, nonetheless. You don't know my daughter. She was experiencing pain and discomfort and had no way of communicating it, as she was nonverbal at the time. She resorted to headbanging as a result, or so I have extrapolated from my direct experience as her caregiver. Please refrain from presuming you know more about her than I do.

Now I am just getting snotty, but to be honest, it is because I am offended by your assumption that I need a dumbed-down version of anything. It's arrogant and I do not respond well to flagrant arrogance, and I am tired and burnt out, so I should stop typing now.


No, unless you had a qualified medical professional ascertain cause and effect, not just observe that one thing followed another. you are assuming that one caused the other, and I do think you need a dumbed-down explanation.

I've had enough of the correlation equals causation crowd and the public health menace they present with their pseudoscientific BS.

If you had a professional work out the causative relationships between one and the other, then I apologise. Physical pain and discomfort in the abdomen is consistent with cows' milk intolerance, but such discomfort can be caused by other things, and the fact that it went away after you withdrew cows' milk does not mean it was the milk causing the problem.


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19 Feb 2014, 10:33 pm

Niall wrote:
InThisTogether wrote:
Niall wrote:
For a dumbed-down explanation of this see, for example http://www.allergyuk.org/downloads/news ... ort_v5.pdf


Thanks, but I don't need a dumbed-down version. I have actually researched this extensively myself and have actually even (gasp!) read articles in peer reviewed scientific journals!

Your opinion is an opinion. It may be a researched opinion, but it is an opinion, nonetheless. You don't know my daughter. She was experiencing pain and discomfort and had no way of communicating it, as she was nonverbal at the time. She resorted to headbanging as a result, or so I have extrapolated from my direct experience as her caregiver. Please refrain from presuming you know more about her than I do.

Now I am just getting snotty, but to be honest, it is because I am offended by your assumption that I need a dumbed-down version of anything. It's arrogant and I do not respond well to flagrant arrogance, and I am tired and burnt out, so I should stop typing now.


No, unless you had a qualified medical professional ascertain cause and effect, not just observe that one thing followed another. you are assuming that one caused the other, and I do think you need a dumbed-down explanation.

I've had enough of the correlation equals causation crowd and the public health menace they present with their pseudoscientific BS.

If you had a professional work out the causative relationships between one and the other, then I apologise. Physical pain and discomfort in the abdomen is consistent with cows' milk intolerance, but such discomfort can be caused by other things, and the fact that it went away after you withdrew cows' milk does not mean it was the milk causing the problem.


Ain't you itchy in all that tweed?


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Niall
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19 Feb 2014, 10:39 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
Niall wrote:
The difference is that there are studies that show that paracetamol (what you call Tylenol) does cure headaches. Now, it may be that the headache would have got better on its own but, in the case of paracetamol, it has been shown in double-blind clinical trials to work as an effective analgesic. We even have some grasp of the mode of action. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15662292

The same cannot be said of some of the pseudoscience touted around here.

I know that far too many Americans are utterly ignorant of basic science ( http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 31721.html ) but I really don't get why it is so difficult to get simple principles like this through some skulls.

I want off this planet...


Get off your goddamned high horse. And you brits are no smarter than we are. We got Bill Gates! So f**k you!


We have Peter Higgs and Stephen Hawking.

Your point being?

My point is that the latest survey shows criminally low levels of scientific knowledge and understanding - and what I've read here is not improving my viewpoint on the subject.

All I see is a view that one person's ignorance is as good as someone else's scientific research. When I question that, all I get is insults.

(I don't wear tweed. I never have. I don't see why anyone could possibly get less than a perfect score on the study cited above if they paid attention in school.)


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19 Feb 2014, 10:58 pm

Niall wrote:

If you had a professional work out the causative relationships between one and the other, then I apologise.


You presume that I am not a professional, or that I am unfamiliar with the scientific method, or know nothing about research methodology. That is quite a presumption. You also presume that just because someone is a "professional," they have some magic access to the ability to understand complex concepts that us "regular folks" just can't possibly grasp with our uneducated minds. FWIW, I once had a rare medical condition. I was told by more than one specialist in the field that my knowledge regarding it exceeded theirs. I actually taught them things. I was much more motivated to know everything there was to know about it, because I had it. I do not mean to brag, but your whole POV is filled with very errant assumptions about what makes someone qualified to be knowledgeable about something. You are also working under the assumption that absence of "proof" as demonstrated by research, proves non-existence. That is as untrue as correlation = causation.

But I think I am wasting my breath here, am I not?


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