Please listen, parents. Hate on me for it if you want.

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For those of you who believe hardness and toughness is the way to go I implore you all to please read. Please think it through because this is a part of our foreign policy. Where are all the toughies now? I believe the Roman Empire is dust.

Ozymandias

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desart. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
“My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.[1]

My mom was big on "tough love". When I was in high school she frequently debated throwing me out of the house when I turned 18, for no other reason than my age. I was a shy, straight-A type. I was so terrified I'd end up homeless that I got engaged to the first boy I ever dated at the ripe ol' age of 19. He turned out to be abusive, which I tolerated for 5 years because I didn't feel there was anyplace else for me to turn. When I finally got the courage to leave, my mother said I was "spoiled" for no longer wanting to stay with a man who made me afraid for my life.
So yeah, don't be like my mom. Please.

Ouch.....that's not tough love, it's just mean.
Sorry you had to endure that. I know OliveOilMom didn't mean it in that way! Teaching children independence does not mean putting them in harm's way.

My opinion is that all things will be exposed when age/development appropriate. Maybe I am seen as coddling my son by others? Maybe not? The way I see it, I expose him gradually and incrementally and work with him thru life. Rather then throw him to the wolves, we navigate it together! So far so good, my son has the highest self esteem of anyone I know! He is bold, outgoing, sure of himself, courageous, outspoken, extroverted, friendly, and so on!

I haven't read this whole thread just wanted to add how I see it!

Last edited by MMJMOM on 19 Feb 2014, 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Look, she doesn't want to marry him, so she doesn't have to. That's so last week.

I was an undergrad research assistant for a professor of social psychology. She was awesome and her research was literally fascinating. It was my first opportunity to act as a research confederate and it was one of my favorite things ever.

She did a lot of research looking at ingroup/outgroup status, minority status, etc. One finding her research demonstrated was that when someone was an "underdog" and they succeeded, they were statistically less likely to help the next class of "underdogs" than were people who were an underdog and didn't succeed or someone who was never an underdog, whether they succeeded or not. So, to me, when I see Aspies who "had it tough" when they were kids and they "prevailed" according to their own standards, I do not find it surprising that they are less likely to want to help the new "underdogs." It is consistent with what research has told us about human psychology.

To all Aspies out there who think to themselves, "I had it tough, and I survived. The same should hold true for other kids, too," I just want to take a moment to point out the staggering child/teen suicide rate in this country. Hooray for you that you "made it," but there are two things you are not considering (at least): 1) just because you "did it" doesn't mean everyone else can/will, and 2) you have no way of knowing what your level of functioning or life satisfaction would have been today had you been born into a more supportive environment. Perhaps your life today would pale in comparison to what could have been. You don't know. You can't know.

To outsiders who do not have an intimate knowledge of my children, their strengths/weaknesses, tolerance, temperament, frustration tolerance, esteem issues, and any other thing that is not readily visible and takes years to learn about someone, I may look like I coddle my kids. To hell with everyone who thinks that. Seriously. I push my kids just past their point of comfort ONLY when they are in the proper space to be able to handle it and learn from it. It would be negligent and/or psychologically abusive for me to leave them exposed to situations that they are not able to handle.

This, by the way, has nothing to do with their diagnoses. It has to do with me being a mother who wants her kids to be able to function in the real world, but who does not want them to feel tormented by life itself. It is my job to both protect them and teach them as they grow up. Throwing them to the wolves to fend for themselves accomplishes neither of these things.

OliveOilMom, I generally do not comment when you make comments like this, because I realize that we come from vastly different walks of life and that I could no more imagine living in your circumstances than you could imagine living in mine, and I respect that: We come from two totally different worlds. Some of the things that you have said your kids do/say, I honestly think I would have to resist shooting myself in the head if my kids did the same at your kids' age. It is so far away from what I consider to be remotely appropriate that it spins my head that you are OK with it. But different worlds, you know...so usually, in respect, I keep my mouth shut. But this time, I totally disagree with you and I will not keep my mouth shut because you are not affording others the same respect that I have afforded you. And because of the comments you made, you are disrespecting me directly, because I would be among those that you are accusing.

Can we please go back to respecting one another? It is OK to differ in opinion, and perhaps you are having a bad day. But my children, and raising them, are my responsibility. I am accountable for how they turn out. Not you. The same as your children and how they turn out are your responsibility, not mine. I will return to being shocked and dismayed by how you do it, but respect your right to make your own parenting decisions. I ask that, in return, you return to being shocked and dismayed by how I do it, but respect my right to make my own parenting decisions.

I may be mistaken, but aren't you the one who got mad that NT kids parents were letting them play video games that you thought were inappropriate for your kid? If so, maybe you should rethink your whole position on inappropriate. My mother wouldn't let me get my ears pierced at 14 because it was "slu*ty". Don't be that mother.

Honestly, if that was the "worst" mistake your mother made, consider yourself lucky. I wasn't allowed to get my ears pierced until I was 15 and I can say it made no impact (positive or negative) on my life whatsoever. Comparing that to being exposed to sex, violence, or language that is not developmentally appropriate (and yes, I get to be the judge of what I consider to be developmentally appropriate for my children) is ridiculous. Not the same thing at all.

Just sayin...

Of course you could resist shooting yourself in the head if you had my kids. You would be much, much too busy wiping their butts to even think about going to buy a firearm or that terrible amminution that some people use with it!

Just for the record, I have no problem with responsible gun ownership and come from a family of NRA members. I find nothing "terrible" about ammunition. But that is beside the point, and at this point, you are not even responding to what people are saying, just lashing out...so that makes me want to ask, are you doing OK? Has something happened? I am asking those questions seriously, because you seem little unglued at the moment.

I've been unglued for several weeks now. No, I am not doing ok. I'm at the point now though where I just want to speak out about things that I haven't before. Not like I do about social issues, like when i marched against racism and attended the press conference as moral support for gay marriage. But things that average, normal, every day people can do to make things better for average, normal every day people (not saying that blacks or gay people aren't average, normal every day people, just saying something that isn't about a social issue).

I do know what my life would have been like. And I know what it was like for the first 12 years, where I wasn't allowed to go outside cause of the pollen, or play with legoes cause I could choke on them (AT TEN????) or watch most tv at all because it would be "too much for me" or do any freaking thing ever where my mother or grandmother weren't hovering over me to make sure I ate a certain diet, or did exactly what they wanted, etc. It would have been the continuation on of that. It would have sucked so much worse than it already did.

Let me give you some background. My mother got divorced, was a nurse, moved in to her parents house with me and they immediately found everything in the world wrong with me. My mother orchestrated it so that every cold I had meant I missed school and even to the hospital, I cracked my tibia in first grade and she put me in a freaking wheelchair and had a nurse come to school with me. She got me every allergy shot on the planet, and put me on a diet of ('I'm not even kidding here) green beans and broiled lambchops for two years. I ended up weighing about 60 lbs when i was 11 because of that. She was a nutcase. Everything out there was fraught with danger or mental upset to me. According to her.

The best thing that ever happened to me, and I hate to say it, was my grandmother getting diagnosed with inoperable, metastatic cancer. Well, turns out that my mother thought I might have a brain in my head so guess what miss overprotective did? She left me there at home with my drunk grandfather to take nursing care of my dying grandmother. Wanna know what all I had to do at 11? I got up and made her breakfast, which is normal, but I changed her, weighed the diaper, charted the probably OP from it. I took her vitals and charted them. I gave her shots of Pantapon (which was a very strong opiate that they don't make anymore) as needed. I gave her the other meds as needed. I checked on her q 30 throughout the day. I spent my summer doing that. While my mother was at work. At her precious hospital. So she could now brag on what her daughter did rather than get attention because her daughter was sick and she was so self sacrificing.

When my grandmother went into the hospital for the final time to die, my mother stayed there 24/7/ Left me with my grandfather. Now, even though i could do all that for my grandmother, I still did not know how to take a bath, wash my clothes, turn on the damn oven to heat a frozen dinner, etc. I was left on my own to figure all that out. Know who helped me figure it out? My friend Windy. The one who made me learn to stand up for myself to others. The one who taught me how to talk to people. The one who my mother said was a little piece of white trash that I had no business being around. Windys' family was crazy, but a hell of a lot more normal than mine! She had two mothers and a dad. (Her real mother, Aunt Toots, had her and then her adoptive mother, Toots' sister Ruth, adopted her). They truly were some down and dirty rednecks and my mother was terrified something aweful might happen to me over there. Like maybe get a mosquitoe bite. Really. Windy's family treated me like a normal kid. When i fell down and wouldn't quit crying her mother got me a cold washrag for the boo boo, and when I kept on she threatened to give me something to cry about. So I stopped crying. I got distracted and went and did something else. My mother would have ran to the freaking ER with me. Remember, I was just turned 12 when this happened.

So, I basically fell backasswards into a family that would treat me normal. When my grandmother died and I didn't run right back and be my mothers sick little lapdog, she got mad. That started an all out war. It took me several more years, living there with her, without taking a bath cause I might "get sick from getting wet" and dealing with her being so smothering that I wished several times she would just go on and smother me to f*****g death, before I achieved escape velocity and left.

And now, oh boy, now. She has the gall to say to my son that I had the best life ever and she gave me everything I ever wanted? Really? What about a f*****g BATH mother???? What about braces on my teeth instead of buying your goddamned dads beer? What about freedom to grow up?

So yeah. I know exactly what would have happened if I hadn't had the mother I had. I'd probably be happy and goddamned normal.

And no, I'm very far from ok.

I'm sorry that you aren't doing well. If there is something that I can do to help, let me know (although I know that sounds really hollow from a stranger on the internet, as what I can do is seriously limited).

Have you considered that it wasn't your mother's over-protectiveness, but her mental illness, that was the problem? Most "over protective" parents are not mentally-ill, so what you were exposed to is nothing at all like what most of the kids of "over protective" parents are exposed to. Your mother is an extreme.

I think it is also important to remember that what "treating normal" means to one person, could be very different than what it means to someone else. I do not even treat my two kids the same. I have way higher expectations for my son in some areas and way higher expectations for my daughter in others. They are two totally different kids with different abilities and different struggles. But I would say I push them both harder than most parents push their kids, only because of their deficits the actual amount of "pushing" done, if such a thing could be quantified, may appear less than the "pushing" that NT kids get. I don't know if that makes sense.

Are you able to talk about what has lead to you becoming unglued?

I know but it's one of your greatest hits! He was making a list ya know.

Oh, I know she's nuts. Part of her insanity is her overprotectiveness. I hate overprotectiveness more than anything, although I'm that way about a few things. I don't like my kids around water (my MIL loves on the lake and they all ski and swim and crap which drives me nuts) and I don't like anybody riding in cars, ever even though I used to be a gearhead and race mine and go on a lot of roadtrips. I worry about them in cars or near water. Let one drive over a bridge and my head will explode. But she was that way about everything.

Now that she's old, she's completely reinvented herself and history! And my kids believe it.

As for whats going on to upset me, well lets look back in the haven, shall we? I've posted so much there that one dude told me it's not my blog. Everything was going great in December, till the oldest left his baby mama and moved in, tore the hell out of my house, brought in furniture from storage and their trailer that smelled like bums right before they die. Then things literally started falling apart and I couldn't get anybody to fix them. DH started drinking bad, oldest son's a drunk so that didn't help. I retreated into my bedroom cause alcohol will just get me arrested the way I'm feeling right now, so at least I know better than that. youngest daughter got suicidal, she got over that but a dr threatened me with DHR and I told this little 22 or whatever year old kid to kiss my ass and walked out of there with her because she didn't like him, got her on Welbutrin and she's ok now. Youngest son brought home a live in gf who has a terrible shoplifting addiction and we have had to get her out of jail four times since she's been here. Oldest daughter who is in college and lives in the garage with her fiance of 7 years is holier than though. My mother is getting crazier. My dogs are biting everybody and anybody they can cause it's winter and they are hybrids. My best friend is now on smack after I had been so proud of her for getting off the crystal meth. My other friend went to rehabd and now blamed me to her entire family because she used to beg me to go get her a pint and I would cause I saw how she was shaking and so they ALL HATE me now. Oh, what else? The other night my friend from high school came out to me and I said the WRONG THING (THANK YOU AS!) I said "Oh, everybody already knew that, we talked about it. Nobody cares". I meant that to be comforting. On a side note, never, ever do that as it's apparantly NOT comforting to know that we all knew and didn't care and love her and could care less who she falls in love with. And another friend of mine, who is Kalderdash and whose mother reads about 10 miles from here has step family coming here from Bham and the chick is in my territory and his mothers, on that little overlapping corner, putting out handbills for readins and doing COLD READINGS and charging the kind of price we charge and so I'm in the middle of that war now. Then I found out on Valentines day that my husband lost his job and I have herpes now from Ole Boy, who denied it and yelled at me about it!

Now, you were talking about shooting yourself in the head on another post, I thank whatever Gods there are that I don't have a gun that I can get to cause I so would do it right about know. Cause you know what? s**t's just gonna get worse.

But, other than that, I do sincerely thank you for caring. Now I feel like such an ass for yelling at you. I really do. But. that's my default setting. I'm an ass to others before they can be one to me, so in a wierd kind of way, I win, but not. I do apologize, and I do thank you for listening. I'm sorry for yelling at you. ((((hugs)))))

Apology accepted, for real. You have an awful lot on your plate; it is understandable that you would lash out. I imagine I would, too. And I apologize for the shoot myself in the head statement. That was really inappropriate of me, and a lame attempt to exaggerate for effect. It was insensitive, particularly in light of how you are feeling.

FWIW, I once had a friend who came out to me and I think my response was even worse. I said "We were wondering when you were going to figure it out!" I meant it to say that we all knew and no one cared, but that's not the way he took it. Looking back, I can see why it was a poor choice of words, but at the time it seemed perfectly reasonable.

I TOTALLY GET THAT YOU SAID THAT!! !! LOLOLOLOL ^5! It's like ya'll were waiting on her to know what ya'll did all along. My daughter has a friend who is coming out to her mother. My younger daughter. This girl is 17 and her mother is REAL religious. Well, here is what they are going to do. It's planned. She will have people there to support her. This one girl is going to make a big "Intervention" banner and put it up. They are going to stage it like they are intervening with her. She's going to tell her mother she's on crystal meth and been skipping school and making porn with animals to pay for the crystal meth. Then when her mother is just about to lose it, she's going to say "Not really, I'm just a lesbian." This could go either way. We don't know.

I also get the shoot yourself in the head thing. I say things like that all the time. It doesn't mean anything, although I would do it if I had a gun, but with my luck I'd just end up with half a face and angry for the rest of my life. I tried to kill myself before, a few times and once ended up in the hospital for it and it just won't work. Right now, I feel like the Bumble in that one claymation Christmas show we watched as kids. He fell of the cliff, the elf who wanted to be the dentist and the other character from the Old West was there and the Bumble bounced. That's what would happen to me, probably. I hate it.

Yeah, sucks to be me. That's honestly why i wrote this. I've seen some overprotective tendencies from parents here, which will just end up getting the kid used to not fighting their own battles and getting a beat down on further up in school. Best to get it over with now and learn to fight back now, before the other kids are big enough to hit that hard. Really. I had to learn when I was 13, and you don't even want to know about that one. I went a bit overboard, but I had some built up anger and plus I hated her. She hit me once, I ripped the ball bat out of her hands and went to town. Oddly enough, I didn't get in trouble really. Remember, this was 1977.