High school refusal -- need help!

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Now, I have thought about maybe phasing down one SSRI as I phase up another---under a doctor's supervision of course.  Would definitely want a doctor's supervision.  Or, if it takes six and a half months to try five, that's fine, too.  And then take a deep breath and try the sixth, seventh, eight, another series of five if necessary.

Again, I do struggle with bouts of depression.  This is my plan if things get bad.

So here's an update of the situation: Did IEP this morning and was able to get a shortened school day, English with the special ed teacher (so she won't have to go to the English class anymore just do work sheets in resource room), dropped ceramics and highway safety (was doing poorly in them and we need her to focus on the core subjects -- easier to make up electives later.) We had her come into the meeting after we had come up with a plan and she was able to express her dislike of going to special ed 4x per week in addition to meeting with special ed teacher for English and school agreed to let her just do the English and leave off the extra special ed period because she was able to be clear about her wants and needs. Felt like it was a win-win all around! She came home on the bus, said she had an OK day, we played heads-up, had a snack and she was in a good mood. Her sister came home and we discussed politics and then I needed to take dogs to the park and she asked her sister to help her with math homework (good sign, I thought!). So I came back from the park thinking I might be able to go to dinner with my friends tonight (they asked me weeks ago but I didn't know what my situation would be so couldn't commit) and my older daughter said she didn't actually do any math homework, just went up to change and never came back. I went up to her room and there are pretzels and a bowl on the floor in front of her room and she's in the dark, burrowed under her blanket and said she is just too tired to do anything... (Too tired to carry the bowl of pretzels into her room? Really!! !!???) Big sigh.... I told her when she gets up later she can use the mini vac to vacuum up the pretzel crumbs. My first thought is: is the day really hitting her (though I can't imagine she didn't have the energy to hold the pretzel bowl -- she did change her clothes ... or is this something else (drama?).) There are only 21 days of school left -- possibly less as you only have to go in and take finals during the last week and don't have to go if you don't have a final in the subject that is being tested that day... I really want her to be on board with this. Any thoughts?

I wouldn't be surprised if the day is really hitting her -- just the anticipation of the meeting would have been very stressful. Glad to hear it went so well!

Zette wrote:

I agree. It must have been really hard work for her to go to the meeting and express herself about her likes and dislikes. Probably even being in the school is stressful for her right now, and some kids (especially girls, I've found) on the spectrum get really tired when they are stressed. (Others on the spectrum might melt down in the same situation.) Also, if she hasn't been going to school, her internal clock / stimulation pattern might be off.

J.

Thanks to both of you for your insight. The overturned bowl seemed overly dramatic to me but I can see that she may feel exhausted. I was actually surprised at how great she seemed when she got home. I wish things would just be OK. I love her so much and enjoy her company so much when she's "herself" (quirky and interesting) as opposed to exhausted, hopeless and oppositional... I want to help her and its difficult for me to know how. Sometimes I feel like she has no clear rules, other times I feel like I need to be more flexible with her as life is harder for her.

The other issue is the school suggested that if they are not where she is going to be now, we may need to put her in a "special" school -- a day program that will start now and run through summer that includes group therapy and individual therapy and school -- in order for her to complete her current coursework (instead of getting through these 21 days)! She just finished a partial hospitalization and dislikes the group therapy a lot -- no surprise as with the Asperger's she is not thrilled about talking in front of people about her issues or even doing group work in school. When I went to check if she'd come down for dinner and she again said she was too tired, I told her about this school option. I can't tell you how stressed out I am about the possibility of the school pushing for her to go there... Also, no administrator has signed off on her changed schedule as the assistant principal was absent today so it will be presented by the special ed supervisor to him tomorrow. If she doesn't go to school tomorrow (my BIG fear), he may refuse to the change...

To get homebound instruction we need a doctor's note but we are in the process of changing our psychiatrist so I doubt he'd be willing...

Any advice? I was -- for about a day -- feeling like she and I are on the same team. Now, again, I feel like we are at odds. It was so incredible to feel like we are working together for her benefit, that she realizes how much we love her, that she WANTS to try... Now, I'm not sure what she wants. I just hope tomorrow morning isn't awful...

I really don't know what to tell you.

I remember being in that place. Only instead of falling apart, I shut down emotionally. I stuffed all feelings-- and self-mutilated until I managed to condition out observable emotional responses in public-- and adopted a me-against-school-and-I-am-going-to-win attitude. Adopted the stance of a conscript soldier in a rotten little war: "I am going to serve my tour of duty. Nothing is going to stop me from serving my tour of duty, because nothing is going to stop me from getting out of here."

Literally-- I looked at every day as a patrol through the jungles of Vietnam, every week as a firefight, every quarter as another hill to be taken. I guess it worked-- sort of. I got through high school with darn near perfect attendance and an almost straight-A average...

...but, on the other hand, with an attitude like that I guess I shouldn't wonder why I had umpty bazillion mini-nervous breakdowns (and a couple of real ones) in college, or why my current therapist thinks I probably actually have PTSD.

All of which is to say-- Tell that story to your kid if you think it might give her a different POV that she could get through this nightmare with. I think, for an ASD teenager, a lot of it really does end up coming down to "Bite your lip, grab your bootstraps, and JUST GET THROUGH IT." But I really cannot recommend my approach.

BuyerBeware: Wow, now I'm not sure what to say to you. Sounds like it was really difficult (I know, understatement of the year!) but you got through it ... somehow. That's the thing about this -- I can't wait until next year when we do cyberschool as there will be more control over what is going on. School is important but so is life... Yet we're stuck in these 21 more days...

Anyway, your post made me wonder how you are doing now (as I think about my daughter's future). Have you had a career you enjoy? Was school, especially college, worth it? I'm just curious. She is very intelligent but school is very stressful. I can only imagine how stressful college will be unless she just does two courses a semester or something...

She might start thinking and analyzing what she did, what everyone else did during the meeting. Which would be really unsettling, since there's a lot of politics involved about who says and does what why. But where you looked at it as overall win-win, to her those small discrepancies might stand out, and the more she thinks about them, the less she'll be able to trust the people and process.

If she'd let you explain these things are complicated and you consider it a win despite recognizing there were other aspects, and then let herself be distracted from this, might help.

Eh, I really don't know how I'm doing now. Seriously.

Got through college with honors (and four changes of major). I don't use it, officially-- a bachelor's in English isn't good for much. I knew that then-- the plan was to go all the way to PhD. I probably could have done it, but I had a kid and realized that I'd found my heart's true joy.

So we had three more kids, and what I do now is do the SAHM thing. I don't know if that's a job or not. It does not pay, but it sure looks like an occupation to me. And yes, I do like it. I get fed up with it, like anyone gets fed up with a job with lots of overtime. But I do like my job.

Unless my MIL's health has degraded to the point that she needs full-time care, I will probably seek some kind of job when the baby goes to school in 3 or 4 years. I don't know what that job is going to be-- it will probably be something relatively menial. I've given some thought to retail cashier, waitress (I waited tables for a while in college and actually liked it-- the script was simple and the work generally not terribly dull), janitor, nurse's aide, daycare worker (though I don't think that one would work out, because my approach to my kids is more off-the-cuff and less perky than the textbook approves). I live in an area that still has some light industry, and have also thought about applying at sawmill and/or the composite lumber plant. MIL and I have discussed starting a business refinishing and reselling discarded furniture. There has also been talk of putting more time and effort into making a "career" of being a self-reliant survival farmer (it's kind of a beloved hobby right now), but that also probably isn't going to work out as my husband's career pretty much ties him to a major metropolitan area.

Probably somewhat due to the attitude I adopted toward school-- both the perfectionism and the "get through it, soldier" mentality that I took on-- I really don't want to deal with the stress of a prestigious professional career. I tell people that, whatever job I get it needs to be one that still allows most of my energy to go to the kids (and that is true, just not the whole truth and nothing but the truth). My husband is, and the majority of my friends are, mechanical engineers; I think if I had to do their jobs I would probably eat Xanax like candy and not be very happy.

I still have the "shut off your emotions, keep both hands on your rifle (metaphorically-- I don't own a gun and don't do violence except in the extreme exigency of the defense of my kids' lives), and MARCH!" mentality. It's not every day, but it is one of my default lines of defense. It both has benefits-- that attitude gets stuff done-- and isn't good. I'm not very good with emotions (especially my own) and the tendency to shut down emotionally and start just doing a job drives my husband absolutely batshit.

It got me through junior high and high school (and junior high, anyway, really does resemble a combat zone I think for ANY kid, never mind a socially awkward, anxious, emotional kid). But-- how do I say this?? Hmmmm...

To continue the metaphor, I've sort of gone the same route as a lot of the veterans I've known. I served my tour and got out of the war. I came home, I mustered out, and I promptly turned into a "f**k The Establishment" hippie. Maybe not quite an SDS co-ordinator, but definitely a commune-dwelling, sign-carrying, dope-smoking (I haven't done that for years, but we're talking about a character here), organic-lentil-eating tie-dyed adamantly counterculture cartoon.

It hasn't been catastrophic, but I sort of stressed out, burned out, and dropped out. I think I probably found what I always wanted anyway. I think I would be able to support myself-- I often get down and say that I'm on SpouseFare and that if I didn't have him I'd be on welfare outright, but I honestly think that if the rubber hit the road I have enough sand in my craw to find a way. It might not be pretty, or anyone's conventional definition of "success," but no one would get beaten, or starve, or end up living in the gutter.

I think it probably would have turned out a little bit different, and maybe a little bit better in the respect of having a higher tolerance for stress and a bit less contempt for society, if I hadn't been so perfectionistic and so hard-core about it. I've spent the past few years trying to get back my own permission to cry (like, before it bursts out as a Category 5 hurricane).

I'm all right, but-- it could have been better. Other than struggling with my own emotions and having what my husband says is a complete and total lack of self-esteem, I am happy and fulfilled. By and large, I think that my cup runneth over; the main thing that bothers me is that I have not gotten it entirely through my own effort. I think I'd do it differently if I had it to do again. I'd have listened to my dad a little more when he said, in effect, "Chill out, girl."

Especially with only 21 days (now something like 18 days) to get through, grabbing the bootstraps, ducking the head, and JUST GETTING THROUGH IT has something to recommend it. But not to my degree.

I will try to put together a more thoughtful, reasoned, less rambling response (I am getting embarrassed by the extent to which eight years of disuse have allowed my writing skills to deteriorate). Right now I need to wash my pits, clean up my two little ones, and drag it to the therapist.

Yeah-- if, at 36, I am still seeing a therapist every Thursday, I cannot wholly recommend my approach. Some aspects of it have something to recommend them, and it could probably definitely be used as a teaching tool for thoughtful consideration, but I CANNOT recommend it lock, stock, and barrel.

She'd probably be better off to repeat the entire grade in cyber school than to take my approach lock, stock, and barrel.

Maybe you should advise the school principal that it would be more just if the school sent home a parental consent form ahead of time for particular readings and /or viewings. I feel they should give alternatives to course work that the parent disagrees to.

To RightGalaxy: That is a good idea. I just don't know if I have the energy right now to deal with any other issues (which were certainly help other kids and parents) than what I am dealing with. If I had known in advance, I could have absolutely requested a different book. They have offered to let her read another book now -- it's just that she has 3 to read for this marking period prior to the final in two weeks so at this point, that feels like a lost cause. For me the problem was I had not read the book and therefore could not say in advance that my daughter cannot read this.
To BuyerBeware: Thank you so much for sharing to such an extent! I really appreciate hearing about your life and your viewpoint. I was a journalist for 15 years before going back for my master's and becoming a therapist so I can relate to the writing thing! (Some of my friends who are still writer have suggested I do some freelance writing during this time but it's been so long and right now I can't divide my attention or seek out sources of income... However, I did just finish training to do English as a Second Language tutoring! I was tutoring my friend from Korea in English grammar (fee was coffee at the book store when we met there twice a week and sometimes she bought me lunch!) and I loved doing that so much! I felt it combined my love of English, my interest in other cultures and in helping people and working one on one! So my new dream is to eventually tutor ESL students for pay. I will begin in the next few weeks with a student through the volunteer program that trained me (at least possibly, unless it doesn't look like I can find a few hours a week with my daughter's current situation -- then it won't start until summer). I know this seems like an odd idea but I'd like to eventually tutor ESL students and see a few clients for therapy. That would be my dream life. Plus I'd like to write a book someday (my daughter and I have been considering doing some children's books together as she is an amazing digital artist and I have written some stories for them when they were children that could possibly work. Ideas, ideas, we are full of ideas!

Anyway, I too sometimes feel like I can no longer do a job that requires so much energy (emotional and mental) and have considered applying to be a barista at our local bookstore cafe or taking a part-time job for minimum wage at the library. I too LOVE books! (These might be possibilities for you too since you were an English major -- maybe not the barista -- I just love coffee and sitting in the cafe so what better place to work? but maybe for you a job at the bookstore if you have a local one!)

Anyway, I really do appreciate you sharing. Not sure what will happen with my daughter. I have to say that she went to school this morning without a problem! How will she get all the work done if she is emotionally exhausted every day? Not sure. My husband keeps telling me to relax, that all we can do is continue going along and reacting -- there's not really a choice. If only I were more easy going!! !! Because really, it is not helping in any way for me to stress about this and turn it over and over in my mind. There is no right answer! We will just have to see what happens and respond accordingly... If only positive self talk would work for me in this case! You are also lucky to have a therapist now. I wish I could see someone (my friends are GREAT and two are therapists but it's different than having someone who's there purely to listen to you!) but we just can't afford it with the fees we're paying for the private psychiatrist for our daughter (we're trying to find someone who takes our insurance but that can be a crap shoot too...).

I did a little skim-over to see what this thread is about...wow. I think you and your daughter have every right to be upset about that English class.

I'm glad I looked over the whole thing, because you said that she was doing an alternative thing for English instead of going through that class. Our teachers here at my school are pretty flexible when it comes to emotional triggers and what a student can handle, so they're more likely to assign someone an alternative book if the student has issues with it.

I don't really mind reading rape and violence that much. I'm pretty desensitized to it, actually. But I wouldn't want something like that forced on me with no alternative if I couldn't handle it. That teacher has some serious issues.

You could try giving your daughter a motivating insentive to finish school. It's only another 20-ish days, right? (I graduate next week myself. )

to MakaylaTheAspie: Thanks for your response. I think the reward is a good idea but I'm not sure what. She needs a new tablet (for doing digital drawing) but it's so important we were going to order it this weekend as I think it will be really stressful if she has to go for weeks without it... So, not sure of what reward (plus in the past, it has never mattered what the reward was. If she feels she can't handle something she just shuts down or refuses anyway... Her counselor feels she needs to work on resilience and positive self talk but it's difficult to get her to be open to discussing these things. I really believe she thinks about things in a certain way and they become mountains -- not that I should talk because I have been known to do this as well! This situation is a case in point!). If you have any ideas about possible rewards, I'm all ears.

We had told her if she passed highway safety, she could get her permit but she didn't do the work (she had a reason -- which she didn't share with us until after the 3rd marking period grades came out -- she was suppose to do a 5 slide powerpoint presentation and though the teacher said she could present to him privately, he said he would likely use her presentation material in the class as each person was doing a presentation on something everyone needed to learn. She HATEs to be the center of attention so just didn't do it so that wouldn't be shown. -- She is AMAZING at powerpoints and presentations of any kind that are digital. It is her talent...) Anyway, she had originally said she really wanted to drive. Now, it's likely better this is not happening with her being in a difficult place emotionally/mentally...

^ I actually hate driving myself. I have my license, but I just turn into a nervous wreck when I'm behind the wheel. Even being a passenger makes me nervous!

She likes digital art too? (Ohhey what a coincidence!) I would try promising her something really neat, like the latest version of Photoshop or a hgiher resolution monitor... Something technical that she probably really wants after the tablet. (By the way, what kind did you get her?)

That's a definite. That should ABSOLUTELY be done.

Good Lord, I was under the impression that parental consent forms for literature assignments were standard protocol pretty much everywhere at this point. I have to sign a permission slip every year detailing what level of "maturity" my middle schooler is allowed to check out from the school library. Nevermind the literature assignments-- we'll just say that I had to sign a consent form for a sixth-grader to read A Wrinkle In Time and be done with it.

If those consent slips and available alternatives aren't SOP for ALL literature assignments, they probably should be. I mean-- I'm not a fan of censorship, but that is sort of part of a parent's JOB. You cannot do your job if you are not getting the information, and the backup to support your point of view (even if that point of view is a ridiculous one like "Fantasy is of the Devil.")

A lot of fiction literature at high school level involves rape, violence, and murder.
I remember reading some of these works by famous authors, most of whose writing I hated, and the subject was boring to me, but I did the work anyway, because I wanted to get an A in English, so I could have good grades and get into good college to study what I wanted instead of that crap that I was forced to read, but did anyway, so I think that is you should teach your daughter, that there are certain things that make someone uncomfortable, or they hate it, or the things are very hard for them, but they still have to do it.