my contentious child...

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Thank you all so much for your responses, this is my first time posting a question on here and for once in my parenting life, I am getting helpful answers, my mom always says "that boy just needs a good spanking," what a help she is eh? I do try to prepare Joshua for our outings and I don't take him very often, when I do, TRUST ME, its for emergency purposes only. He seems to act out in public because he knows I will not punish him there, if I did, like the marble idea in the store, i would have a huge meltdown on my hands which would cause more of a problem than I have already. I give him star stickers, which he seems to like when he gets 20 we take him to the local bounce house sort of place, he looooves this. Because he knows I will not punish him until we are outside the store, my threats dont bother him until i follow through with them at home and then begins his repetitive melt down, that lasts for the rest of the day. This is why I focus more in positive reinforcement rather than negative. But maybe I find a way to ignore these meltdowns, because I am thinking he might be catching on to me. Even at home my threats don't matter to him, I will follow through with them by taking away his video game time..his favorite thing right now. He will throw a huge fit, and get sent to his room until he stops, which he wont and then he stays in there until he falls asleep. Sometimes it's something as easy as apologizing to his brother for hitting him. I tell him he can come out of his room when he is ready to apologize, he will stay in there all day (coming out every five minutes of course screaming at me) and will not apologize, he is sooooooooooo stubborn, I wish I had this sort of determination sometimes I will definitely try bringing a video game or snack along to these emergancy outings. Maybe I should even consider the marble idea, hey I'll give anything a shot. My husband gets irritated with me for only taking him in public places when I have to, because he doesnt think its fair because he likes to go. So I dont think he is bothered by stimulation, but maybe enjoys it?????

My child is going is also purposely defiant lately. He is 5 1/2. Honestly, a lot of it has to do with his age. He sounds pretty typical in a lot of ways. Your son actually sounds pretty intelligent.

You do have an incredibly strong willed child on your hands, don't you? You sound like you are doing a great job. The hardest thing with strong willed children is that you may have to change the reinforcment and whole system often. You probably know that most systems don't work immediately so it's important to give it time to work. The marble idea is wonderful may be only work for a short time as well. You will most likely need a lot of different ideas to work from.

Perhaps get him involved with a system that works. That way he can take ownership. If he is excited about it, perhaps it will work. Maybe he can tell you the rules he should follow in the store. Have him choose some pictures that match the rules using clipart. He can take it with him to the store. He sounds like a very intelligent young boy that maybe that would work.

Nate does get his computer time taken away when he acts up. It seems to help but earning time for computers rather than subtracting is actually works better. It just takes more work and planning. I need to improve in that area with my son.

I have punished my child in the store - once. I gave him a time out in the aisle. For a lot of kids, that wouldn't work because they may just get worse and throw a huge tantrum in the store. Nate hated the time out in the aisle so he has been fine ever since.

Yes he is very intelligent....smarter than me I think sometimes :/ Yes, I have noticed that things only work for so long before I have to find something else, I wonder why that is?? I think lately the problem may be that my husband just went to the night shift, so He only sees him before school in the morning. I think this is causing some anxiety, not to mention the fact that I am pregnant. He may just be overwhelmed with change. Seems like his behavior goes in waves. He will be more cooperative at some points and then he'll have a streak of defiance. Maybe there are just things in his routine that are throwing him off, I hadn't really thought of this until my husband mentioned it this morning. He is having a really good day today for example after a really bad day yesterday.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got: Just because a child is drawn to something, does not mean he can handle it.

My son is a sensory seeker and he seemed to thrive on social situations. The more stimulation, the better. He loved amusement parks, malls, and more. But after I got the above advice, I started looking for the pattern. And, truly, every meltdown could trace back to an overwhelming sensory situation that he had been eager to get into. While he learned to behave beautifully in a restaurant - he loved eating out as a toddler - we would get behavior issues after getting home. And so on. It seems I had been able to teach him that he needed to behave if I was going to take him places, but I had not dealt with the core problem.

He was very drawn to situations he was incapable of handling. He no longer is; he has tuned into himself better, but it was an interesitng few years as we made that transition from perception to reality.

It's something to think about, anyway.

That is likely to be a big piece of it. The more the world spins out of control around them, the more kids try to shape it and control it, latching on to anything they feel they can.

ahhhh nice point!!....never thought of that one.

Just because he enjoys it doesnt mean its not overwhelming for him. People who are addicted to cocaine enjoy the sensation it brings, but that doesnt mean they are immune from it's detrimental effects. Simply because your child likes to take in all the information doesnt mean he can process it all without getting overloaded. Perhaps the reason why he acts out around other people is because more people means more overloading, not because he has an audience. Over-stimulation can often cause ADHD like traits. As in less ability to control impulses, more hyper, lower attention span, quickly forgetting what they were just told, and difficulty thinking far enough into the future to care about threats of lost computer time.

Your child may also be struggling with control issues. As I have said earlier if you make all the decisions for him and then tell him what to do, he will become annoyed with you and resent you. Try letting your child have more of a say about how his life is run. It can start with simple things such as letting him choose what to eat for dinner. Perhaps you could make that a reward for good behavior. Let him decide other non-important things such as which car to take when you go out as a family, or where to sit for dinner. Let him decide how to organize his toys, and other such non-vital decisions. Overall letting him make minor decisions like this doesnt affect your ability to do anything, but it may help him to feel more in control and reduce his need to gain control by constantly arguing. Change can often be a very scary thing, and a person will try to compensate for that insecurity by controlling something. If you dont give him a good outlet for this, he may try to find his own outlet.

If your child is intelligent enough to understand that his consequences have actions, then perhaps you could get better results by including him in your decisions about how to deal with him. As odd as that may sound, working with the child is a much better approach then working against them. 'Do as I say' may work for a young child who isnt old enough to understand that his actions have consequences. But for a 6 year old who is very intelligent, he should be able to think at least an hour into the future and see how his actions will affect things. Talk with him, and explain why his actions at the market are problematic (yes, once again I am stressing that you must explain the why). Once he acknowledges that his actions are causing a problem, ask him why he acts that way. The most likely answer you will receive is 'i dunno, I just have a hard time controlling myself'. This is a sign of being overwhelmed.

Next tell your child that you understand his problem, and you are willing to work with him to overcome it. Propose solutions to him, and see if he agrees with it. These solutions should be something like 'I will give you some earmuffs to help you get less anxious and help you control yourself better. I will also give you something to do (like a game boy) so you can focus on that instead of getting overwhelmed. Then, for every 5 minutes you behave properly, I will give you a marble. If you do well during the entire trip then you will have lots of marbles and be able to get all kinds of cool stuff like ice cream. This helps both of us, I get to go shopping and buy what I need, and you get marbles which you can exchange for prizes. However if you continue to make shopping hard then I wont be able to buy groceries, and we wont be able to eat any dinner or ice cream. So can you please agree that you will behave in return for marbles? It would really help both of us'

By comparison the wrong way is 'why cant you just behave! I have told you time and time again not to do that and yet you dont listen! If you misbehave next time we go out your going strait to bed without dinner!' I'm not saying you act this way, but this is what I grew up with, and I can assure you it only makes problems worse. Try to avoid threats, instead focus on positives.

If you run into the situation the next time you are out, perhaps you could try this:

*Child throws loaf of bread outside cart*
Parent> Don't throw the groceries outside the cart, Ive already told you I dont like that, and Ill take a marble if you keep doing it. Instead, if you stay in the cart and play with your toy you can earn a marble.
*Child throws the loaf of bread outside the cart again*
Parent> I just warned you not to do that, if you throw something else outside of the cart I will take a marble.
*Child throws loaf outside cart again*
*Parent stops what they are doing and looks at child*
Parent> I have already asked you twice to stop. We already agreed that these actions are not good, and you have already agreed to stop doing it. But now you are doing exactly what you said you wouldnt. Why did you throw the groceries out of the cart, is it because you want to lose a marble?

At that point, wait for your child to respond and see what he says. It is possible that the simple act of calming down enough to think of a response will help him to realize that his actions are not acceptable, and he already agreed not to act this way. At that point he may say something like, 'I am trying to be good, its just so hard'. At that point simply encourage him to remain patient and he will be rewarded with a marble.

Keep in mind that having a tantrum which then leads to a meltdown is part of growing up autistic. As much as we would love to avoid them, they are necessary parts of learning boundaries. If your child has to lose a few marbles and have a few tantrums then so be it. He will learn that having a meltdown wont get him his marble back, but calming down and changing his behavior will. It will probably take a little while to help him learn this, but learning to stick to an agreement about behaviors is part of growing up. It may be unpopular, but I'm of the opinion that you cant make an omelet without cracking some eggs. Your child has to learn to control himself if he is ever to function in society. Its something I had to go through, and it is something your child will have to go through as well. I should stress that you want to send the message that he is losing a marble because he didnt do what he previously agreed to do, not because you are angry at him.

Also, after rereading my previous posts I think I might have come across as a bit too direct. I have a habit of giving out advice without first addressing the emotional situation, which I have found is counter to standard social operations. My previous advice was ways you could try acting differently in order to help the situation. As I look back I realize that this may have come across as blaming you solely for the problems you are now facing. That was never my intention and I hope you didnt take it that way, but if you did, please accept my apologies. I am merely trying to help you be providing what information I have. Children dont come with self-discipline and rationality built in. It is something that he has to learn, and its not your fault he hasn't learned it yet. The fact that you are here on this forum asking for advice shows that you are trying to learn and help your child, and that is more then many parents out there are willing to try.

Tracker and DW should write a book together.

You both are incredible!!

The defiance may also be because you're giving him an order to do something. I have always been very defiant with my mother, and we didn't know until my diagnosis that this was AS. I do not do well with orders, because I hate changes in routine and interruptions while doing something. My mother has learned to say, "You'll have to go do such-and-such in ten minutes," rather than, "Go do this NOW." Time warnings can do wonders with an Aspie.
-OddDuckNash99-

OddDuck also has a really good point. I get much better results if I allow my son time to transition at his own pace from what he is doing to what he needs to be doing. When he little, that was two rounds of the ABC song followed by a count to 10. Now I give him a specific tme on the clock.

I would buy it!! I have been doing the marble thing (well not with marbles but with 5 gold coins, i dont have any marbles) for the last two days....he has really been doing great! He is being helpful and nice and really seems to enjoy it. I haven't had to take one away from him (yet) I'm sure it won't last forever, but it sure is helping right now. If he has all of his coins at 7 o'clock he gets to have video game time. He seems to like the game more than the reward though, seems like such an easy solution! I do try to ask him and give him a little warning before I need him to do something, but I guess I get in a hurry with life and can forget to be patient with him at times. I will really try to work on that. He is probably more stressed out about these situations than me, and is more important than what I am doing anyway.

I feel like we have spent so much time trying to treat him like he is a regular non AS kid that I can forget sometimes that he needs more time to adapt than me or his siblings, does anyone else do this? He is high functioning so I can forget sometimes that he has different needs.

Even AS kids go through phases, sometimes ones that you just have to allow to pass relatively unnoticed in order to make them go away. We use a combination of reason (making sure there is no actual cause that we missed), ignoring (if we think he's feeding on the negative attention), and some punishment he just can't take in case obedience isn't an option (such as taking his video games if he won't get ready for school). I wish I could say it worked well, but then, when all three kids gang up on me in the afternoon, it's hard to enforce anything on anyone.

But I just read a bit about Oppositional Defiant, in a book by James Dobson. He says he would prefer it was not called a disorder at all because all kids get defiant at some point and will oppose you in every way humanly possible while it's going on.