Devastated - please help!

Post Reply New Topic

Yes, that has occurred to me.
As someone born and raised in a country that still has areas like the one you described above, I am more than able to appreciate that my son would have indeed been much better off in such a world.
Unfortunately, we don't get to live in such a world anymore.



I came here largely to have some technical questions answered; but discussions often get off track and few can help getting into emotionally laden territory with such topics.

One thing I know for sure though is that my son doesn't need a mother who cries on "soft shoulders" and then accepts her shattered dreams because her son is "different". The question is: HOW different?
He needs a mother who can believe that he will achieve exactly what she's always thought he will achieve as an NT: good grades in school in a bullying-free environment, one or two good friends along the way, graduate school, a fulfilling occupation, a loving spouse, and contentment with his life (hopefully, he will choose to skip the kids).

Because... "frankly, my dear...for everything else...he shouldn't give a D".
And I'll make sure he won't.

See, that last part about why you hope your son doesn't have kids is an insult to people on the spectrum. When your son is of age to be thinking of things like this, that will be his choice, and I sincerely hope you don't tell him this crap. Truly, this kind of sentiment is poisonous, and I find it rather hard to believe that your negative attitude towards your son (and autism/AS in general) won't eventually be noticed by him in some way. This stuff hurts. When my mother attributes what she perceives to be a negative personality trait of mine to "Asperger's," it hurts. And she is far more accepting of neurological differences than you are, and has also attributed some of my gifts and talents to my being on the spectrum as well.

I still believe that it's a problem that your expectations for your son's life--and your daughter's as well--are so rigid. It is possible to be happy without one or more of marriage, college and graduate school, etc. Not everyone wants those things. Temple Grandin is a famous autistic person who has written about how she has never been interested in a close relationship, for interest, yet draws fulfillment from her interests. Nobody here is saying to drop all expectations of your son, but you need to be more flexible with them, and you need to expect that he will make his own choices based on his own values. And this applies to your daughter as well.

I also think you're falling into the trap of pathologizing everything your son does. I'm not saying that he might not have different challenges from other kids his age, but a lot of what you describe doesn't sound like it's that unusual for a child his age. Kids fighting over toys? Not wanting their siblings to use their toys? Maybe the degree of it is different, but that's hardly unusual stuff. Sometimes reading your posts I get the impression that you expected your kids to be perfectly behaved straight out of the womb, and that's simply not how it is for the vast majority of kids, spectrum or not.

For you to be the best parent to your son, you need to try to understand how his mind works rather than denigrate what he does at every turn. Many of us feel a need to have some control over our environment and experience anxiety when we can't, as MotherKnowsBest explains. Why not try to understand our perspective before branding us as freaks?

Abilities in autistic people are often scattered. Please please do not refer to your son as "stupid," and above all else don't make assumptions. Just because he can do x doesn't mean he can do y, and just because he can't do z doesn't mean he won't be able to do w.

He should achieve what YOU think he should achieve???????! !! !! !! !! !! !

Just listen to yourself for one minute. You say you came here for answers to "technical questions". Well you've gotten them and dismissed them as things you've already tried. If your son doesn't seem to get your "logical" explanations its becasue they are NOT LOGICAL TO HIM. People here have tried to tell you politely and others have been more blunt but you are offensive and stubborn. Go jump on the Jenny McCarthy band wagon and get out of here if you are going to continue to be so unwilling to listen to or care about any of the people here.

Please don't tell people to do that. She just might take you up on that advice and that wouldn't be good for anybody.

Anyways, still working on my post. Its going to take a while....

I have to say Goodoldays I think you must be leaving a lot of people feeling like banging their heads out of frustration at your unwillingess to hear whats said. I for one am amazed and perplexed. Are you intelligent:? Yes. Stubborn? Mind blowingly so. I await Trackers' calm and measured response with anticipation.

You are right, my bad. I'll just step away from this and avoid the frustration. I wish the OP and her son the best. Much effort by many people have gone into this thread trying to impart knowledge gained through hard fought experience. I fear much of it has been wasted and I fear your efforts will also be wasted but I can only hope that some of it will eventually help the child. You are a truly compassionate and generous person and I will take my own lesson from that.

Last edited by Bombaloo on 14 Jul 2011, 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thats interesting in the context of this discussion, apparent stubborn-ness, could also be a result of "Rigid thinking" as its called.

Give your son a strong caffienated drink - Arizona Iced Tea, Mountain Dew - and watch his behavior for an hour or so and see if his impulsiveness decreases by a noticiable amount. It is not a perfect test but if he does have a marked improvement with caffiene then he most likey does have ADHD.

No - your son is not normal. Many of the people in this thread are not normal either. Many of these people are parents with Asperger's who have relationships, jobs, children of their own. Not only do they know what your son is likely feeling and experiencing but they are also well versed in raising a child on the spectrum. Counting the number of people offering you their advice - you have discounted a combined 100+ years of first hand experience and have continued to use 'non PC' words and descriptions in your posts in regards to your son and AS in general - yet almost every one of these folks has been nothing but polite, understanding and forgiving despite feeling insulted, outraged and frustrated.

You want your son 'fixed'. If I were you, I would start working on plan B in case your iron will isn't enough to fix him. I simply hope you do not destroy his self esteem in the process. I suspect you aren't even aware of how you may be doing that despite the advice warning you against it. You are not a freak like many of us. Maybe the freaks know a thing or two about being a freak... and how to not LOOK like one in the general public. If you want him fixed NOW - get out your magic wand. That is your only alternative. If you want to help him achieve the successes in life many of the Aspies here have, maybe you should start listening instead of telling them all why they are wrong and how freaky they are.

Well, I think a lot of people tend to forget that ASD is deveopmental DELAY, not developmental STASIS.

Some people should not have kids, with your unrealistic expections, you are among them.

An NT mind is like a dog's way of thinking and a AS mind is like a cat's way of thinking. You will no sooner force your will upon your son and make him NT than you would turn a cat into a dog, but you will destroy him in the process.

If you really cant accept who is, I highly recomend that you give him up for adoption, for he would be better off with another family than he would being forced to be someone who he is not neurolically capable of being.
You seem to be incapable of raising a special needs child due to your totally unrealistic expectations.

If you had a child that was born paralyzed? Would youy throw that child on the floor and demand he walk?? Well that is the same thing you are doing to him neurologically. You are completely unreasonable in your idea that you can force him to be an NT. He may be emotionally maimed for life because of your attitude towards him, but he will never be normal.
If you really loved him like you say you do, then either accept him and get the services he needs to develop the skills he needs in life or give him up for adoption to a family that understands special needs children.
However, forcing him to be something he is not because of your expections of what a kid should be is not love...it is narcisistic.

Your son needs a mother who has properly dealt with her own emotions and expectations, who has set aside her needs and wants, and is ready to give him what he needs, whatever that turns out to be. You can't bury your emotions under a belief that powering through will fix everything and think it will turn out well. It will not. You are only putting off the inevitable emotional crash that needs to happen. I can see, hear and FEEL in your posts the powerful emotions you are going through, and yet you claim that crying on a soft shoulder would be counter productive? Not if that is what you need to do to be your best self. Your son needs YOU to be your best self as soon as possible. Which means you should let yourself go through all the steps of the process NOW, so you can move on.

I have no issue with most of your list of expectations; I have the same for my son, and always have (except for the marriage and no kids parts, which others have already addressed). The shared expectations are not inherently incompatible with accepting and dealing with your child's limitations. In fact, I would say, that B is required to get A. If you do not accommodate your child's needs, he will not meet the expectations. If you do, the odds go way up that he will. Understand this: before my son got his IEP, he was giving up on school, checking out, no longer trying, refusing to even start assignments. He was THAT frustrated with the writing issues he faced. Once he had support and people willing to say, "hey, you aren't stupid, you just have an extra challenge to overcome, and we'll help you" he checked back in, he started to believe it could be overcome, and he got down to doing the work it took to move past the challenges. Expectation without understanding is empty.

So I guess what I'd like to be sure of here is that when you say this, you aren't saying you won't give him support, and you aren't saying that you'll pretend he doesn't have sensory or anxiety issues when he does, etc. You are only saying that you look at this child and know him well enough to believe these things are possible for him with or without a diagnosis, even if they take longer or require more work than average, and that you intend to share that belief with him.

I do not expect my son to do things unless I truly believe he is capable. I give him time to find his way, and I give him the supports he needs, but no more than he needs (we were offered voice technology assist for the writing issues and turned it down, because I preferred that he not become THAT dependent on assistance technology, and I had seen enough glimmers to believe he could learn to keyboard if not hand write, and he has). So far, I've called it pretty well. We regularly look back and assess: was the support the right amount? Could it have been less, could it have been more? He wants to be as independent and successful on his own merits as much as possible, just like any other smart kid hoping to make a good life as an adult, and I trust him to be honest about it.

I guess I just think that with a 5 year old, you have to be ready to adjust the expectations if reality proves them unrealistic. There is so much left to discover about your son. Don't chain him to an image he may not fit; too many with AS suffer from extreme anxiety as it is (we are fortunate that anxiety is not one my son's co-morbids, although he does get panic attacks), and anxiety can be more debilitating than the AS.

And, seriously, learn to filter your words. Your son is hearing and remembering everything you say, and you don't want him to turn his back on you as an adult; you have no idea how many AS adults on this forum refuse to talk to their own parents. They haven't forgotten a thing. We fail as parents if it all ends up like that, no matter how many other expectations were met.

Everyone. I speak as someone who has had a lifetime of Autism. I speak as a child of a mother who was traumatized that her child was "broken" "unruly" and "spoiled." I speak of a mother of at least one child who is Aspie and the other two possibly somewhere on the spectrum (and two of them have, and had very serious medical conditions). I am a sibling to one maybe two NTs, one I have no idea and he other I am 99% sure is on the spectrum. I am a niece to an aunt I never knew because she died at 7. She had Downs. She changed the lives of my grandparents and my mother forever.

As a child, my earliest memories are unique. I remember being in a crib, and crawling out so that I could climb on my parent's bed and jump on my dad to wake him up. At 3, I remember running to the hall closet to find a lollipop tucked away in my dad's suit jacket pocket. This happened every Saturday, until my mom found out and stopped it. I remember helping to put a new rocking chair together with my dad. Did you know that putting soap (bar soap) on the screws before they go in the wood makes them easier to screw in?) I remember tasting lima beans, and gagging because of their chalky texture. I also remember for years being forced to eat them and hating every minute of it. My mom thought I was just stubborn. She did not understand, and just thought I was defiant. I remember my best friend in the entire world, Livia, who lived just down the street from me. I remember when my brother was born (the NT brother). I also remember being tormented by my older brother who hated that I was even born (it was just rubbing salt in the wound that I was a girl). I remember a tornado going over the house at 3 years old. That was my first intense interest that I remember. I still love weather. In fact, I am a skywarn spotter. I remember my pets: Brownwin (my great dane), Zoomie (my mom's cat), Elisha (my most beloved pet in the entire world, and the spark for my second interest - Cats). I remember burning the bottoms of my feet on live coals that someone had in a pit in their back yard. I also remember running home on those bare feet and seeing my mom scared and my dad smiling (I know he was not smiling, but that's the image I remember). I also remember being in the ER that night, with those burnt feet, crying in pain and agony and being told by the staff to be quiet because there were sick people there (I was three when this happened too). I remember the birth of my one and only sister. I was so happy to have a sister. I remember being bullied, but I also remember my very close intense friendships. I questioned and wouldn't take "I don't know" and "you cannot" as an answer. At 9, my mother posed a question to me on time and the existence of God. I have never stopped thinking of that, and I now have a theory (not scientific - more of an idea that I want to get to be scientific) of time, the creation of the universe, and the "glue" of the building blocks of everything. I remember being in school and people not understanding how I could be so smart, yet do so poorly on my tests. I frustrated teachers. I frustrated my mom. It was all my fault. In my freshman year in High School, I had no friends. I immersed myself in music. Science was still cool, and math was becoming interesting. I loved Geometry. I didn't even have to try and I would get over 100% on my tests. I graduated. So ended my youth. I moved out of my mom's house. When I was a child, I had heartache and I had joy. By my senior year, I wanted to die. I asked to be put in a hospital, and was there for a month. They noticed things on the psych evals they did on me, but figured it was all due to fatigue (they had me take them early in the morning the day after the night I was admitted.

As her daughter, my mother had a different view. She does not share any good memories with me. I know you don't want this to happen goodolddays, but if you keep on the path you are on, your son may be in my place some day. I hate her, but I love her. She is my mom. I know she loves me, but she could not handle me, and she is toxic to me. I spend as little time with her as I can. She is broken. I cannot fix her, so I don't try any more. She does not even know what she did to me. She feels justified in t he ways she treated me. She says it was out of love. It was not. It was only to make it so that she did not feel guilty. Spare the rod, spoil the child, you know. This is how she saw me as a child (besides unruly, stubborn, selfish, and uncaring - anyone else who knows me will tell you that that is NOT me, but that's what she saw):

*I had a very traumatic birth (she does not remember the actual birth, but said it was very hard on me. I have this fear of going through a tunnel and not being able to move my head. I believe it may have been from that). I also had brain trauma from being delivered by forceps.
*Had several vision and hearing tests... all normal (slight farsightedness and an astigmatism)
*Starting at age 3 (when my one brother was born) I started throwing terrible tantrums, I was oppositional, socially I was going downhill (don't know how, this is just what she told me), and I refused to take naps. I refused to do what I was asked to do. My mom always assumed that this was because my brother was born and I was jealous. I can guarantee I was not jealous. I loved him more than anything, and he was my favorite brother in the entire world. I would have given him the moon and sky if I could. As for the naps, my mom recalls a daily incident: I would be placed in my room and the door would be closed. I refused to sleep. I would urinate and defecate in my tea cups and other toys and spread it all over the room. I drove my mom insane with that. As a parent, if I had to deal with that on a daily basis, I would have pulled my hair out.
*People noted that I looked at people out of the corners of my eyes when in a group of other kids. One particular incident my mom noted was one girl who would freak out in class could be calmed down by no one, except me. I am talking adults, not just kids. I was about 5 or so.
*She said I was self-focused and self-absorbed. I didn't appreciate other people's feelings.
*I either did not do my school work, or I did not turn it in. My daughter is the same way.
*She thought my behavior was her fault.

My step mother had something to add. Only one thing: "It was like you were in your own little bubble"

My children are my world. I cannot imagine what I would do if I loose them. I am in a custody battle for the younger two, and honestly, they are using Aspergers to try to keep them from me. They are not calling it that, because they do not know I have it, but everything negative that was damaging in my life that they are trying to use against me is in one form or another related to Asperger's. I thought that it would be better for the kids. I gave them to their dad. It was the single most biggest mistake I have made in my life. Because of that choice 10 years ago, I may loose two of them. He has moved across the country and wants to take them with him.

Why are the kids important? My oldest was just diagnosed. I have no idea how no one could see it. Her step mom has a child with Aspergers. She still does not see it. I didn't see it, because to me ALL the behavior of my children was normal. Normality is in the eye of those who see it. Why would I think that not wanting to hang out with kids was wrong? That's how I was. Why would I think that huge tantrums were not the norm. I could calm them down in a heart beat when NO ONE ELSE COULD. It was all normal to me. With my middle girl, it was draining. She cried fort he first 15 months of her life. I mentioned her earlier in this thread, so I will not repeat. This was hard, but to me was typical of a fussy baby. No one told me that it was atypical in any way. My youngest was my easiest. She scheduled herself. She rocked herself to sleep (back and forth, back and forth). She had to have a routine. No one told me that even though this may have made her the easiest baby ever, some of her behaviors were screaming spectrum. All three kids are picky eaters. You know the normal foods kids like? Not mine. Right now, they are on a Ramen kick. It used to be mac and cheese and when they were very little, it was nothing but nuggets. This is all, while difficult, normal. I did mention it to their pediatrician, and he told me to just make sure they take a multi-vitamin. The are all very bright and inquisitive. Their ideas are profound. They amaze me.

My older two have had illnesses. To you, they may not seem devastating, but to me, they were very hard. My oldest had vesicourethrial reflux, and epilepsy. Seizures have since stopped, and she had surgery to fix the urinary issue, but during that time, my life revolved around her. It was all her. That's when I became obsessed with learning about medicine. When she was 3, her dad went overseas for three months. This was the first time I really had to raise her (her dad did most of the care, because she did not really want me. She wanted him). This has always stuck with me. She told me at bedtime one evening that she was afraid to go to sleep, because I was in her closet and would come out and get her. Apparently, kids do have this fear, and it usually means the parent is being too strict. I calmed down and stopped trying to demand perfection. Our relationship improved after that. Her younger sister also had problems, but they are gastro and allergic in nature. She has a milk protein allergy. She also has a severe case of GERD. This has caused so very many problems, and has altered her life dramatically. Not to mention some of the other issues she has been having (possibly spectrum related). When finding out that both kids were not perfect babies (and my mom rubbing it in my face that I was *just like that*) I was really devastated. I am not now, because I see past all that and see the kids for who they are. I promote them and their lives. I give them the best possibilities and make sure they have all the opportunities they can have. I do not try to mold them into an NT world, but instead, help them to act certain ways in certain circumstances, BUT I also tell the people around them why they are the way they are and how THEY can change their behaviors to help my children. You see, in this world, we should not shape our children into an NT world. But we also should not expect the NTs to mold into ours. We are all unique, and the only way to truly understand each other is to blend out worlds together and truly understand the others way of thinking.

Finally, my aunt that died before I knew her. Her name was Marsha. She was pretty, but very demanding. My mom said that if Marsha never came along, my grandfather would have been a very cold man. If it wasn't for her, my grandparents would not have co-founded an ARC (at the time it was called the Association for ret*d Citizens). They would not have become a huge driving force in the community and so many of the mentally challenged people in north eastern ohio would be without advocates. Because of my grandparents, I learned a respect for people who are different. I learned to see past what people did, and saw who they are. It isn't easy to do, especially with some oft he people I have been around, but it is possible. I have a cousin who also has downs (she was adopted by my aunt because they fell in love with her. She is the most oppositional, stubborn, and feisty thing I have ever met, but I love her and I would never tell her that she is so (well, I might call her stubborn to her face, but she would deny it and hit me on the arm. lol). She is special. She will never be married, and she will never have children (unlike most Aspies here who WILL have these), but it does not bother her because she doesn't desire it. I realize downs is not Aspergers.

I am tired and I think I have said this as a final way to help you understand that this is not a down side. If all you saw in this response was negativity, look again and see the positives.

I will add one more thing though. Do you know how it is to go autistic? Do you know how it is to be on your son's side of the tantrums/meltdowns? I know you know the mom side, so I will not share my exhaustion. I am sure you know. Imagine as an adult, sitting in class and not comprehending what the professor is saying. You hear him. you hear the words. It isn't that you don't know the definitions of words, you cannot comprehend them, even though they are spoken as clear as day. You daze out and start thinking of anything to keep your mind occupied, because listening to mumbo-jumbo is boring. Imagine going home that evening and trying to take an online quiz for the same class. This was the question:

I could not understand it. I did not know the word "argument" or "logical" or even "respect." I know I should know them, but they made no sense. I also had taken a calculus two exam in which I answered all the right answers in the wrong places, because this part of calc is memorization, and not how I learn. I KNEW the material (the prof knew I knew the material), yet I failed the test. THIS is what a child with autism goes through. The reason (I am speculating) that they true autistic child looses language is because he no longer hears the words. What is hears is more like white noise. It is easier to ignore it. Words are the same. It is all like it is a great big disconnect - like a short circuit in the brain. It processes, but just won't come out (or in).

You know what a meltdown is like for an autistic individual? Let me tell you that. The frustration level builds. The tension starts to rise and you can feel yourself spiraling out of control. You MAY be able to stop it, but depending on the trigger, it may happen too quickly. Things fuzz out. Everything becomes instinct. You do not realize you are doing it, but you are watching it happen at the same time. It is despair, fear, anger, frustration... all amplified 100x or more. When it is over, you realize what you have done (or in some cases have no clue you did it) and are ashamed. You want to know that loosing control did not make someone turn from you. You want reassurance. You want a hug or kiss. It is not because of selfishness. It is because of fear and wanting to know you are still loved. I KNOW how it is to live a time when NO ONE will talk to you and it feels as if no one loves you. Please do not push your son in that direction.

You want to spend time with your daughter, and I agree you should. You need to tell your son that he needs to allow you to spend time with her. He needs reassured that he is not in trouble and it is not his fault and that you love him. You HAVE to be completely logical. If you know Star Trek, think Spock. How would he explain things? How would he act towards someone? That's EXACTLY how you need to act towards your son. No emotion, and cold logic.

One more thing: I have thought about answering your question about me and jobs. I know what I want to say, but I cannot word it. Try putting words to a two hour movie (if you know what a 'literal version' of something on youtube is, that's what I am talking about. I don't want you to feel pity for me. I am of the mind set that I will take whatever is set against me and make it work in my favor. I am stubborn. Is that a bod trait? Depends on how you use it. Mine is the determination to make my life better, and in the process, try to improve the lives of those who come after me. If I can change things, it will make most things I went through worth it.

I have to go to sleep now. School in the morning...

That is exactly what I have been saying all along. He can remain an AS all his neurological make-up pleases; nobody expects him to change deep down. However what we will expect of him (with lots of support in the process) is to learn all the coping skills necessary to live a normal life in the NT world. With the way I know him - he can certainly do that.
People have been complaining here that I am stubborn and that I do not take the time to assimilate all the advice I was given. Rest assured I have. Great Sphinx, thank you for the story of your life, it was really enlightening to read (just like the experiences of many others who wrote here). So rest assured I understood everyone's points. I also understood that, in the end, my son is the kind of child who will need more patience and a much calmer environment than regular children need but NOT lowered expectations. With the way I know him, those would probably be most destructive.

Most people here, however, seem to have severely missed the mark on my points.

I thank everyone again for the time they took to provide us with lots of nuanced information!

(BTW, it is far too late, and this is far too long for me to go through and edit. So... meh, hopefully it makes sense, cause I am going to sleep now)

Dear GoodOldDays,

The first thing to address may sound a bit rude, but please understand that I am just trying to explain the problem as I see it. It appears to me that you are a strong willed person. And really, this isn't a bad thing. I will gladly admit to being a strong willed person myself, and in fact it can be a very useful trait. Being strong willed is what allows you to make decisions independent of cultural and peer pressure. It allows you to question what other people have to say, and be skeptical of whether or not their is any truth to it. And by questioning what other people say, it allows you to better understand it, and respond to it more effectively. So, I am not telling you to just accept what the other posters have said without question because I myself wouldn't do that. And any reasonable (and strong willed person) wouldn't do it either. Just because somebody says something like 'accept the autism' doesn't make it good advice, and you have every right to question it.

But the problem comes when your strong will takes you beyond being skeptical of what other people say, and moves into outright and immediate rejection of anything which doesn't make sense to you right away. Part of the problems you are having is because some of your assumptions are incorrect. I am not blaming you and saying you are a bad person because of your flawed assumptions; after all, everybody makes mistakes and gets false information. But I am saying that you cannot stick to your assumptions and be unwilling to consider change because if you aren't willing to look at things differently, your situation isn't going to get any better.

You have said in previous posts that you understand what Asperger's Syndrome is. And as a person who has lived with it for his entire life I can absolutely, entirely, and completely tell you that you definitely DO NOT know what it is or else you would not have posted half the stuff that you have. Many of your assumptions are not correct and if you do not take some time to really question your assumptions, and realize that you don't understand what you think you do then you will never truly understand the problems that you are facing. And as such, you will never be able to deal with the problems effectively. I realize that questioning your underlying assumptions can be a daunting task. But if you are not willing to do it, then you are just going to keep having more and more problems, and then you'll be miserable, and your son will be miserable, and your refusal to understand your son will severely diminish both his self confidence, and his chances of doing well in life.

So, keep an open mind, and really start to think about some of the assumptions your making. Because if you don't, then all the forum posts, and books in the world will never help.

So then, false assumption #1:

The first false assumption that you need to address is your belief that the label your child gets is important. It isn't. I don't care if your child is diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, ADHD, ADD, or purple poka-dot syndrome. It doesn't change who your son is. The first thing you asked upon coming to the forums is, 'Does this label seem to fit my child or not'. And I am telling you that isn't what you need to focus on. Your child is a unique, one of a kind, individual. And trying to play a game of 'which box does my child fit best in' doesn't do anything to help. You need to stop worrying about what the average IQ is for a person with this label, or what the average symptoms are for people with that label, and just focus on one thing only; understanding your child.

You see, you don't get a label as a way to describe or define your child. You get a label as a way to help you find useful advice and information to better understand your child. For example, say you wanted to learn more about me. I seem strange to you (or at least I would if you met me in person). And as much as you tried to make sense of me, I wouldn't seem to fit into what you would call 'normal'. Upon asking me 'why are you so strange', I would inform you that I have an atypical neurology, and suggest that you find out a bit more about Asperger's Syndrome. Now does that mean that I will fit every single stereotype of the syndrome written on every website in existence? No, of course not. In fact, trying to predict my actions, opinions, strengths, weaknesses, or skill set based solely on Asperger's syndrome alone is going to yield you some fairly inaccurate results. But the point of the label isn't to define who I am. It is merely to help you better understand why I act the way that I do.

Likewise, when you are looking at a label for your child, you have to realize that no label will ever fit perfectly. And expecting it to fit perfectly, or acting based on the label alone without considering your individual child is just going to fail miserably. The label is only supposed to serve as a general directional aid to help you know where to look for information or advice. For example, the psychologist may say, 'Your child seems to have Asperger's Syndrome'. And that doesn't mean that everything you ever read about it will fit your child, nor does it mean that your child has suddenly changed and become something he isn't. What it just means is that your child has some traits that are best described with a certain label, and that by reading about that label you can find some useful ideas and information to help you better raise your child. That's it.

If the phrase 'Asperger's Syndrome' helps you to better understand your son, then great. If the phrase ADHD helps you to better understand your son, then that too is great. Hopefully you can use this information as a tool to lead to a better life for you and your son. But the phrasing should not be used to define your son. Nor does slapping a new label on him change who he is. So, from now on, I want you to STOP worrying about which label to use, or what particular label fits best, and start worrying more about understanding your unique child. If a label helps with that, then great, but just remember to focus on your child, and let the label help. Not focus on the label and then get frustrated when your son doesn't fit in the arbitrary label box. So to answer your original question, 'does your child sound like he has AS?' I don't know. Maybe, in some ways but not in others, but why does it matter? If learning about AS helps your son then go for it. And if you come across advice that doesn't seem to apply to your child then don't feel that you have to use simply because the label AS is attached to it. Find what you can to help you understand and help your child. But do not let the label alone dictate how you respond.

False assumption #2:

You are assuming that you boy should act like a girl. There are multiple times in this post that you have compared your son to other girls and noted that your son isn't as nurturing, caring, or people oriented as little girls are. And you then attribute this difference to your son being 'selfish' or 'self-centered' or 'uncaring'. What I don't think you realize is that is exactly how young boys act. Young girls are by nature kind, caring, sympathetic, nurturing, etc. This is obvious when walking down the girl's toy isle at the toy store. Common popular toys for young girls are plastic baby dolls and play hospital dolls. Some of them even make sounds like crying, and you can feed them, and so forth. Why? Because the baby dolls appeal to the nurturing, caring attributes in young girls.

By comparison, look at young boy's toys. You wont find baby dolls and ponies there. No, what you will find is toy guns (nerf guns), and dodge balls which they can throw at each other. Not to mention army men, toy tanks, toy battleships, and other such things. Why? Because young boys are naturally aggressive, competitive and enjoy attacking each other. Whether it be a game of nerf, tag, checkers, or video games. You will find that pretty much every toy for a boy is designed to appeal to thier desire to compete or win. You are not going to find toys for boys that appeal to their kind, nurturing, helpful sides, because young boys don't act that way.

So, yes, your son is not as kind, caring, nurturing, helpful, or considerate as your daughter, or other young girls. But thats because he is a boy. Seriously, expecting him to act differently is just going to leave you upset and bitter towards your son for being who he is.

False assumption #3:

You are confusing asperger's syndrome for bad. The problem is that you are looking at Asperger's Syndrome, or ADHD as merely the label given to the things about your child that you do not like. For example, he isn't sharing his toys, and this gets blamed on asperger's syndrome. This only reinforces the negative opinion you have which is that asperger's syndrome is some horrible thing that is nothing more than a collection of problems and difficulties. You view Asperger's Syndrome as a horrible thing which is afflicting your child and making his life miserable. And that isn't the case. Asperger's Syndrome can best be thought of as a different way of thinking. Its a different way of processing information, and considering options, and figuring things out. It is a different way of prioritizing and reasoning. But it isn't inherently a bad thing.

The problems come about for a couple of reasons. Primarily, the problems come about due to a lack of understanding. Your child is acting in a way which makes sense to him, but which doesn't make sense to the people around him who don't think like him. If you actually understood him, his behavior wouldn't seem like a problem; but because you don't understand him, it does. The second cause of problems is simple immaturity. Immaturity affects everybody because everybody is born immature. Its not just an autism thing, or an ADHD thing, or a normal person thing. It applies to everybody, including you.

For example, I can remember one day when I was playing with my younger cousins. They (both boys) were 4 and 2.5 at the time. I was outside playing catch with the 2.5 year old (well, as much as you can play catch with somebody that young). As we were tossing the ball to and fro, his older brother starts running towards us. At first I assumed he was just coming out to join us. But as he got closer, he started running straight for his younger brother (who had the ball at the time). Upon reaching his younger brother, he plows him over (knocking him off his feet), picks up the ball, looks at me and says, "I wanna play!" At this point, his younger brother starts crying (because he just got plowed into the ground), and so the older one looks at his brother with this confused and annoyed look which could best be described with the phrase, "What are you crying about?" I thought it was hilarious, but their mother was less then pleased at what she saw. She came over and started the whole, 'that wasn't a nice way to treat your brother... how would you feel... say sorry... etc' lecture.

Why do I tell that story? Because it is a perfect example of immaturity causing people to act poorly. And furthermore, it is the stereotypical sort of problem that young boys have. But do you think I stood there and thought, 'O woe is me! My cousin has no sense of kindness or respect for others. Why oh why did he have to be born male! If he was born female this situation would never happen. He will never fit in the adult world. He is doomed to a life of failure and misery.' Of course not. I realized that while his actions wasn't good or acceptable, it isn't a sign that he is hopeless and will never accomplish anything. It is just a sign that he is immature. I am sure that with time, and guidance from understanding parents he will be more then capable of learning not to knock people over and take their stuff.

Likewise, you are looking at your young child and noticing what is clearly signs of immaturity. But instead of attributing it to immaturity, you are attributing it to his neurology and saying. 'O woe is me! My son has no sense of kindness or respect for others. Why oh why did he have to be born with Asperger's Syndrome! If he was born normal this situation would never happen. He will never fit in the adult world. He is doomed to a life of failure and misery.' Do you see the disconnect? The truth is that a lot of the problems you are seeing are simple immaturity, and are not necessarily part of who your child is. Much as my cousin will learn not to knock people over, your son can also learn to understand and respect other people. It isn't impossible, it just takes some time and effort.

You have to understand that when people say things like, 'accept your child for who he is', they aren't saying that you should accept your child being rude and doing nothing about it. They aren't saying that you should give up on making any progress. They aren't saying that you should abandon all hope of your child having any future. And they aren't saying that you should accept being miserable and having strife in your life. What they are saying is that your son isn't normal. He doesn't think normal, and he isn't going to fit into the mold of what you may want. And the more you try to just FORCE him into the mold, the more distress you are going to cause him, which is just going to make the problems worse, which is isn't what you want.

What acceptance means is learning to understand, and appreciate your child for who he is as a unique individual, and then helping him to become the best individual he can be. That means you don't sit there and pity him for being different. You don't bemoan the fact that he isn't going to be normal. That means you don't ignore his difficulties as petty problems and ignore them, nor do you blow them out of proportion. That means you dont scold him and get frustrated at him for acting 'normal for him'. That may mean handling him differently, and expecting different things from him. That may mean you have to change your plans. But ultimately, if you want the best for your child, you are going to have to understand him for who he is, appreciate him for who he is, and then help him learn to become the best person he can be.

False assumption #4

One of the most important things you need to accept is that while people can learn to adapt, they cannot change their underlying neurology. And no amount of effort or trying harder is going to change that. I talked about this partially in this post here:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp3460862 ... t=#3460862

Lets add on to that with a failing of my own. Whenever I get too stressed out, I begin to lose functional speech. Depending on how stressed out I am, it starts as simply stammering a bit more than usual, to having difficulty forming coherent points, to having difficulty forming coherent sentences, to having problems forming words. I have had this problem since I was a young child, and I still have this problem as an adult. Now does that mean it bothers me as much as it did as a child? No, because I have learned to manage my stress and remove myself from the environment before I get to the point where I cannot effectively communicate. The flaw is still there, but I have learned to adapt, and cope with, and manage it to the point where it is not a serious problem. Likewise, my brother still sucks at math (as described in the link), but he has learned how to use a calculator, and get a non-math job. And in the same way he has learned to adapt and cope with his difficulty such that it is no longer a problem.

In the same way, your child can too learn to cope with his problems. He can learn better systems of organization and planning that help to deal with his disorganization problems. He can learn effective outlets to use his energy on, and he can learn to deal with other people effectively. But ultimately, he cannot change the underlying problems that he has anymore than my brother can solve a differential equation, or I can function effectively when stressed out. It just isn't going to happen.

And what is really important for you to understand is that it isn't simply a matter of 'trying harder'. I did not learn to deal with my problem by 'trying harder'. My brother did not deal with his problem by trying harder. Trying harder did nothing but make the problems worse. If I can't talk, then I can't talk. Trying harder to do something I can't do is just going to make me more stressed out which is just going to make it worse. And if my brother can't solve an equation then trying harder still isn't going to solve the equation. All it will do is leave him frustrated and lower his self esteem. And likewise, your son cannot 'try harder' to deal with the problems that he is facing. And becoming upset with him and calling him lazy isn't going to help.

I would like to copy something I found on the Wikipedia page for ADHD:
"Teachers and parents may make incorrect assumptions about the behaviours and attitudes of a child with ADHD, and may provide them with frequent and erroneous negative feedback (e.g. "you're irresponsible", "you're immature", "you're lazy", "you don't care/show any effort", "you just aren't trying", etc.).

The children may realize on some level that they are somehow different internally from their peers. However, they are also likely to accept and internalize the continuous negative feedback, creating a negative self-image that becomes self-reinforcing. If these children progress into adulthood undiagnosed or untreated, their inattentiveness, ongoing frustrations, and poor self-image frequently create numerous and severe problems maintaining healthy relationships, succeeding in post-secondary schooling, or succeeding in the workplace. These problems can compound frustrations and low self-esteem, and will often lead to the development of secondary pathologies including anxiety disorders, sexual promiscuity, mood disorders, and substance abuse."

The truth is that simply trying harder wont work. And expecting your child to do better and work harder is only going to come back and bite you in the ass. What you need to understand is that your child is not lacking in effort. He is not lacking in motivation. He is lacking in ability, and what he needs from you isn't annoyance, lectures, and frustration, but acceptance and help. Because the only way you are going to help him is if you understand the problems he is facing. And the only way to truly understand the problems is to accept him for who he is, and understand him instead of trying to fix him.

It is true that your son is always going to have certain problems. Those problems are life long, and as others have said, neurology doesn't suddenly change at age 18. But what you can do is help your son learn how to mitigate, and deal with his problems. You can help him find work-arounds, and you can teach him to deal with the problems such that they do not cause him significant difficulty. But you can't just set expectations and then get frustrated when your son doesn't meet them because he isn't going to learn to adapt through shear willpower alone.

False Assumption #5

The point above extends to my next point which is that the nature of intelligence is not as rigid as you seem to think. You are acting as though intelligence is simply a number. And that people with a certain IQ should simply 'know things'. I.E. 'If he is so smart and so good with words, why can't he figure out this social situation'. And to explain that you have to accept that there are multiple aspects of what intelligence is. For example, looking at the math stuff in the link. Do you know what half those terms are? I am willing to bet that 99% of the people on this board can't even identify what half the terms are, let alone use the equations properly. Does that mean you are all mathematically ret*d? I mean, compared to me, you aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed.

Does that mean that I should look down on you and get annoyed when you can't figure it out? After all, I can do it. The professors at my school know how to do it. Whats wrong with you? Well the answer is that nothing is wrong with you. You just don't happen to have skills in that area. And lacking skills in a certain area does not make you 'stupid' or 'ret*d' but merely a human being with their own unique skill set. Likewise, your son is going to have his own unique skill set. In some areas he will do well, in other areas, not so much. But that doesn't mean that he is defective, ret*d, or stupid. It merely means that he struggles in an area that you do not. Much as you struggle in the area of complex mathematics where I do not.

Objectively, you have no more right or reason to be upset or annoyed with your son for having difficulty with socializing then I have a reason to be annoyed with you because you can't solve a series of simultaneous equations. We are all human, and we all have strengths and weaknesses, but that doesn't make us any more or less valuable, or intelligent, or stupider than anybody else. And using derogatory terminology to describe somebody who is struggling and in need of help is not doing them any favors.

So, to false assumption #6

You are focusing on the wrong things in terms of priorities. You are worrying about whether or not your son will get to a graduate degree, and whether he will get married, and so forth. You need to stop focusing on that as those are not the important things in life. I will spare you my life story, but suffice to say, I have gone through good times, and not so good times. I have been suicidal, and I have been happy and content. I have been penniless and living my parent's house. And I have been gainfully employed and living independently. I have observed thousands of people in thousands of situations, and I am a student of history. And what I have learned during my life is that what most people consider to be important isn't as big of a deal as you think.

The truth is that it doesn't matter what job you have, or where you live, or who you live with, or what your finances look like. What is most important is that
1. You have a positive outlook on life
2. You respect yourself
3. You find other people who will respect you and make your relationships with them.

Those three things do not require any certain skill set, or education, or social standing. And they are achievable by anybody. And if you truly want your son to be happy and enjoy life, that is what you need to focus on. Not making him blend in, not making him act normal. Not sending him to graduate school, or getting married. And the best way to make sure these things happen is to teach your son to understand, and respect himself. And then you do the same. Because if you do that, he will learn to deal with his problems, and have a good outlook on life, and he will be a happy, content person. And really, that is what matters. Everything after that is just gravy.



The truth is that you find yourself at a crossroads. One option is to simply keep going down the path you are on. To keep trying to fix the problems as you see them, and try making this work as you think it should. The other option is to try and learn more about your son, how he operates, why he operates that way, and what that means. And this will require you to challenge some assumptions you have held for a while, and start seeing things in a new light which is going to be difficult at first. But in the long run, you will have much better outcome if you take the turn and start learning to understand and respect your child for who he is. There are dozens of parents who have been down both sides of that road and as everyone of them will tell you, the sooner you take the turn and start understanding your child instead of trying to fix your child, the happier, and better off your family will be.

I am not saying it will necessarily be easy, nor will it make complete sense at first. But if you never get going down that road, then your son will never receive the help or understanding that he will benefit from. And doesn't your son at least deserve the chance to be understood and accepted for who he is?

Hate to tell you hun (considering the way you're freaking out), but I read this and from the sounds of it, YOU just might be an Aspie too.

And whether it is genetic or not is still not determined (as far as I know the jury's still fighting), so don't go looking to blame your husband's family/genes.

Either way, there's no certain way for internet readers to decide if it's a "clear case" and the answer to "how how bad is it likely to get" is this: Wrong Question.

Ask instead: How much trouble is being different going to affect him.
The answer: The more you support and encourage him, the less it'll harm him.

PLEASE relax and calm down. A diagnosis doesn't change who he is - it gives you a key to understanding him, and any challenges and inexplicable behaviour you might encounter from him. That's all.

Tracker, above, is the one who wrote the book I recommended earlier, and he has long been one of our most thoughtful and helpful posters. That would have taken him hours to write, perhaps even more than a day, because he has hand issues similar to my son's. I tell you that because I want you to realize that the information you are being offered is no small investment of time, and the reason people are making that investment is because they truly want your family to be a happy and successful one, but are concerned from things you are writing that there is much left for you to see. I realize there may be some misunderstandings, but they are rising from your words, and it is your words that your son will be hearing and integrating. If we believe that you have a certain viewpoint, so may your child, and if that viewpoint is destructive, there will be damage. This concern has been serious enough to generate a large investment from multiple members in hoping that you can see a few things differently, and adopt a different terminology. I hope you will try.

OddFiction just spoke to the elephant in the room that a few have alluded to, but that I haven't been sure it would be productive for you to hear: you seem to have a few AS traits yourself. It would explain the communication gap, given how hard it can be for someone with AS to move from one perspective to another. I am convinced my father was AS, and so many times you have reminded me of him. He loved us to death but he had a little trouble realizing at times that we had unique needs, and when he did realize it he couldn't fathom what to do about it. He was very rigid in what he expected from all of us and, to be blunt, I would have done better if he hadn't been, even if I did just fine with the mold anyway in the surface ways the world cares about. He kept me from following my true passions and gifts, because they didn't hold value to him. I refuse to be that way with my kids. I want them to know what makes their souls sing, and to be able to fit that into their lives. No small challenge in a world that demands one be practical, but that is my wish regardless, the thing that would make me feel most successful as a parent. And I want that for my AS child, who was born with a bright light and a happy disposition that life has worked incredibly hard to distinguish, and might be succeeding in destroying despite my best efforts. All he has as an ally in effort to keep it burning is his family. And that is what people here want you to be for your child: The one who keeps his bright light burning as the rest of the world tries to put it out, instead of an accomplice to snuff. If you fail to see beyond the assumptions of society for "success," if you put that list too high in your priorities, he will lose that bright light he was born with, and he may stop experiencing real happiness.