Is abuse subjective?

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bjtao
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18 Nov 2010, 9:04 am

There are too many people that behave as 'Brother A' and 'Brother B' that were not abused in any way to say his behavior was a result of the abuse.

number5
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18 Nov 2010, 10:26 am

Abuse is fairly objective from a societal standpoint (with varying degrees, of course), but it is very subjective from the standpoint of those involved. Abusers often know and use the weakness of their abusies (made-up word ) against them. This can be a significant part of the abuse itself. For example:

2 kids, a and b, have the same dad. Kid a is very sensitive and shy while kid b is a rambunctious and wild child. If dad yells at both kids, kid a may go to his room and cry, while kid b may pay no attention whatsoever. If dad then went and spanked* both kids after yelling, it would be completely abusive without question to do so to kid a. On the other hand, it may not be abusive to do so to kid b, and it is possible that kid b may even be in need of stricter punishment and thankful for it years later as what he needed most at that time was boundaries.

So from this example, kid a may feel very abused, and rightfully so, while kid b may have a completely different take on the situation, and possibly even be thankful. The dad should have tailored his parenting to reflect the different needs of each child.

Each child is born unique so naturally each child will experience life differently. As they grow old, they will continue to be unique and will reflect on their pasts differently.

I'm sure this all varies wrt varying degrees of abuse. It's a pretty complicated situation. It is completely possible that the brother who is supposedly in denial simply didn't have the same experience. Or, maybe he did, but his life is a mess for completely different reasons. Brother a and b are different people, so it's not appropriate to measure them by the same stick.

* I personally do not approve of spanking in any situation. I used spanking as an example for a slightly older generation from which the brothers may be from.

psychohist
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18 Nov 2010, 12:50 pm

Countess wrote:

I will not break the cycle but I may give my son the tools to remove it from the tapestry of our family's history, and that is my great wish.

That's still breaking the cycle, is it not? It just takes two generations instead of one. Good for you.

I note in passing that some people choose to break the cycle by not having kids, but it's nice to know that's not the only alternative.

DW_a_mom
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18 Nov 2010, 1:38 pm

Sallamandrina wrote:

I wasn't sure where to put this - hopefully here I might get some perspective both from parents and children.

I recently had a conversation with two brothers about childhood abuse and the radically different take on it confused me greatly. Both are "NT" and suffered mild to serious (but not to the point of hospital attention) physical and emotional abuse from their father. They are both educated and intelligent and so is their father. Brother A - introverted and quiet - was deeply traumatised by this and at almost 40 still struggles with some scars. Brother B - extroverted and rather aggressive himself - considers he wasn't affected at all and their father did what he thought to be best for them. While he asserts he wasn't affected, his life is pretty much a mess and his relationships with people not very good - as I said, he's quite aggressive himself and reacts poorly when he can't impose his will on others.

Brother B was very adamant that insults, constant yelling, lack of reward, beatings (bad enough to leave marks but not cause injuries) cannot be considered abuse unless they traumatise the recipient.

Needless to say, he didn't manage to convince me, but I'd like to hear others' take on this - is abuse subjective? Anybody can point me to some good books/other resources on the subject?

The only thing about abuse that is subjective is how one reacts to it. The man in your post who claims not to be affected, sounds very much like he has been affected. That is his defensive reaction to it.

My father was emotionally abusive, but I don't blame him for it. You'll hear from me a lot about how he did the best he could, loved us deeply, etc. But that doesn't change the fact that he carried scars, and those scars had negative effects on his family. The first step in healing our own scars is to at least see that they exist, and reach some understanding of how they got there. The later cannot be done without admitting the truth: my caring and loving father was emotionally abusive.

Sorry for not reading through all 3 pages of posts; the discussion may have evolved pretty far past my contribution. But I felt after the first post that I knew what I wanted to say, and this was it.

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DW_a_mom
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18 Nov 2010, 1:42 pm

number5 wrote:

) against them. This can be a significant part of the abuse itself. For example:

2 kids, a and b, have the same dad. Kid a is very sensitive and shy while kid b is a rambunctious and wild child. If dad yells at both kids, kid a may go to his room and cry, while kid b may pay no attention whatsoever. If dad then went and spanked* both kids after yelling, it would be completely abusive without question to do so to kid a. On the other hand, it may not be abusive to do so to kid b, and it is possible that kid b may even be in need of stricter punishment and thankful for it years later as what he needed most at that time was boundaries.

Very good point.

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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).

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