20 year old son quit job, hiding in his room for past month

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Hey painteddiva, as I'd posted I didn't know your circumstances and wasn't criticising. I can see you have made a lot of effort eg going onto WOW etc. It's a tricky situation. In our case we have a probably ASD teenager of seventeen and I do get angry with him (eg the other morning not dressed or had breakfast five minutes before due to leave for school, even though is always woken up an hour before he needs to leave and each morning reminded of his routine). But was that anger not counterproductive? When I do that it means he will confide in me less than he usually does (hardly at all), and the real point is he does not have executive function ie his brain just doesn't let him see where he is in the world etc. We are realising that he needs to be given very clear simple guidelines and then made to stick to them. It does mean quite a lot of effort but hopefully it can help him get through his last two years at school, and hopefully he might get some understanding of the real world as he grows. And hopefully he can know we love him and he love his parents. (Just wondered if some of that had, understandably mind you, gone missing in your relationship with your son).

Dear painting diva

I am very concerned about your last two posts as they indicate what I would consider to be a very counter-productive, and potentially harmful solution. Not to mention a complete lack of understanding about what the problem is.

To start with, you are attempting to coerce your son into acting the way you would like (i.e. get a job, go to school, etc.) Under the assumption that all he needs is to just get off his lazy ass and do it. Basically, the mentality (whether you realize it or not) is that the problem here is just a lack of motivation on your child's end. And thus you are trying to coerce him in the hopes that it will change his motivation.

The problem is that your son is not stuck in his current situation because he lacks motivation. Do you think your son wants to be stuck at home with parents who are constantly harassing him about not working hard enough and taking away his computer? He is stuck because he doesn't see a better way out. Telling him to go out and get another dead end job that wont even pay enough for him to move out doesn't make any sense. He is going to be stuck at home whether he works at that job or not, why bother with the stress? And he knows that college isn't going to work out for him.

You may think that your helping, but what you are basically telling him is, "Hey, here are my impossible demands. I want you to do them and if you don't, I will make you suffer for it." Is that really helping? When a person is depressed, do you think that scolding, harassing, and punishing them is going to make them less depressed? How is harassing your son and being mean to him going to help him deal with his social anxiety? I mean, if the people he spends the most time with (his family) are treating him like dirt and taking his stuff then that doesn't exactly do much to help, does it?

What your child needs in this situation is not punishment and coercion. What he needs is some help in coming to terms with his problems, and finding a viable path forward that will actually allow him to get a good job that pays enough to move out. And you can help with that. As I said before, look into trade schools, or something like that. And if you want to help your son with his social anxiety then you can start by being less antagonistic towards him. Encourage him to deal with his problems, and perhaps get him some books about dealing with social anxiety, or using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to help himself.

I have said it before many times on this forum, and I made it a prominent point in my books as well. You need to work WITH the child, not AT him. And you are currently trying to work AT him by forcing him to fit into the mold that you want, and it isn't going to work out well. At best, you are just going to make him miserable, and then he might finally go back to his dish washing job, just to get you off his back. While there, he will make next to nothing, and be miserable, and at that point it is only a matter of time until he quits again, or worse. The suicide rate amongst depressed people working at dead end jobs and living with their parents who are constantly antagonizing them is higher than it should be.

Should you just abandon him to his room and give up all hope? No, but what your doing isn't any better. What you need to do is help him to see that there is a path forward which is actually worth doing, and then help him to accomplish that.


Secondly, you have an aversion to online gaming, (MMOs in particular) which I think is misplaced. I myself played several MMOs, including Final Fantasy 11, Eve Online, and my current hobby, Star Trek Online. The longest one that I played was Final Fantasy 11. I started the game back in December of 2004, and finally logged off for the last time in September of 2010. During that time I took a couple breaks, sometimes for a few weeks, sometimes for a few months. So, in total, I was only actively playing the game for about 4 years. Just before I deactivated my account, I looked at the Playtime log, and found that I had put 7100 hours into the game. 7100 is a lot. To put that into perspective, when I was actively playing the game, it averaged 34 hours per week. That's almost a full time job.

So, you might say that I was addicted, and that I was doing harm to myself, or that I needed to stop playing the game and get into the real world. But I would disagree. Because during that time, I also managed to get my Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering with a 3.7 GPA. I never missed a class, or skipped my homework, or failed to study because of my MMO playing. Why? Because I had the proper priorities. I put my future first (which meant attending classes, studying, homework, etc.) and then my recreational activities second. And as such, I was able to accomplish what I needed to do, and also enjoy playing a fun game with friends.

The fact is that I find socializing in person to be very draining. I am not opposed to it, and I do get together with some friends and play D+D once a week. But it is still a draining activity. I can't do it very often without feeling tired and worn out. Going online and playing with friends that way doesn't wear me out. So being able to go online, make friends, chat with people, and have fun was my primary source of social interaction during college (and still is today). To take that away or think poorly of it is not going help your son as you are looking down on his primary method of socializing, and I am sure that doesn't help his social anxieties.

The fact is that these games are not inherently bad. I played them for a long time, and they haven't hurt me. You yourself played them, and they didn't hurt you. What hurts is when you get your priorities out of order and put the game at a higher priority than it should be. That's when you become 'addicted' and when it can cause problems. But the solution is not to ban the game, it is simply to put it into the proper priority. In other words, you have to put preparing for the future at a higher priority then game play, and that is the problem your son has. He has no way to prepare for the future. He has no path forward that leads to a good job. He has no hope for progress. And when you have no hope for the future, you have nothing to prioritize over gaming, and as such you just sit home and play games all day.

Telling him to get off the game isn't going to make him suddenly work towards the future if he has no way to make that happen. Basically, priority number 1 (the future) isn't possible, so your son is just going for priority number 2 (playing games). Taking away priority number 2 isn't suddenly going to make him work on priority number 1 if there is nothing to work on. All he will do is just move down to priority number 3 (watching TV perhaps). And so you can ban TV, and he will move onto his X-box. You can ban X-box and he will move on to reading books, or something else. And you can keep banning more and more things, making him more and more miserable, more and more depressed, and it isn't going to end well. The problem is not bad prioritizing, or lack of motivation. The problem is a lack of a proper path forward, and until you can address that, your not going to solve anything.

So my suggestion: Stop worrying about how much time he spends on the computer playing games online. Stop trying to force him into a pointless endeavor. And stop antagonizing him. The truth is that if your son is going to pull out of this slump he is in, he is going to need two things. Number one is a way out. And number two is the will to do it. And you cannot force either of those. You can help, encourage, and assist, but you cannot coerce your son into action until there is a viable path forward, and he himself has the resolve to see it through. So stop making your child miserable for nothing, and start working WITH him, rather then AT him.

I have tried all that you recommended, I have suggested trade schools to him, I have tried to give him books on social thinking, and all have been rejected by him.

I have tried to explain to him 'small talk' and how important a smile is with NTs, it gives social validation. I have been told by him that small talk would make him "sound stupid."

I would have to say you are probably unique in this world if you can balance gaming with your studies. I very much enjoyed that game, but I met a ton of people who had nothing else going on in their lives other than that game. I am not against gaming per se....

All things in moderation right?

I am wondering if I can work an arrangement with my son where he spends time with me or his Dad online looking at various trade schools, career paths, discussing how he might get there. Also the same for the social issues....Or if he will agree to reading one chapter in the book "Socially curious and curious social" each day and discuss with me or his Dad in exchange for PC time.

And that he goes outside for a bike ride, or a walk, anything to get some sunlight on him.

I get that we cannot expect him to be doing much of anything until the social anxiety issue is dealt with.

Which would probably be better than the current unpleasant power struggle we are engaged in.

Thanks, you and the other poster, another Mom, gave me some new ideas for a so far intractable situation that is going nowhere fast....

Hi, thanks for sharing more info. I'm sorry to hear about what is going on. I do agree with a lot of what tracker is saying.

Playing games in and of themselves are not bad and taking them away is just going to make him angry and resentful. However he does need to have priorities.

I don't think there's really going to be any instant solution. You may have to gradulally pull him out of his shell. Is there anything else he is interested in besides what you have already mentioned? You might be able to build on that.

For example, you said he likes to study Japanese. I know from experience that you can really only get so far on your own, so how about taking a course? Or maybe introducing him to some other aspect of Japanese culture? There's more here than just video games. Many people are interested in food, for example.

Computers are a double edged sword. I spend too much time on message boards, and it gets worse if I'm depressed. Sometimes I do need someone to help me keep it in it's proper box, and not just sit staring. But they have to be nice and they have to be creative about it.

I think we need to clarify that not all on-line gaming is the same. The way WOW is played makes it more addictive than others. Someone with trouble keeping their hobbies within reasonable limits should not play WOW. I've told my kids they can play most anything but NOT WOW. My sister does lots of on-line gaming so she helps them pick what will fit in with their time limits. Gaming is fine as line you are controlling your play, and are not letting the game control you. I think that is the conversation to have with your son, that the problem is that he stopped being in control of what is supposed to be a tool, and you need to work together to restore that control.

Thanks to everyone who has posted.

I sat with my son today, in his room and told him if he would go back on the anti-depressant and see his psychiatrist, he would get his PC and internet connection back. Also told him I don't care if he never works in the food industry again.....He did not speak for the longest time. I joked that he must be feeling really bad because he didn't say his usual "Get Out of my Room". I actually sat there and was comfortably silent for quite a while. I figured if he wasn't busy telling me to get lost, I could wait. We actually ended up talking about his studying of Japanese language. I bought him a book at Christmas that is humorous with important rude English slang translated to Japanese, I read some to him. Which made him laugh a little. He said they are terrible translations so I read "I'm sorry" in Japanese.

I pitched him the idea of getting native Japanese tutor to come to the house to work with him. He insists he can get all the practice talking he wants on the internet, through language exchange websites and a Japanese version of you tube. I then spent some time trying to explain why a teacher is better than his method. As in the teacher will come to know his strengths and weak spots and what areas he needs to focus on, etc. A random stranger on the internet is not interested in that. I have no idea if I got through to him but I gave it a shot.

I also reminded him that there are programs and colleges that are Aspie friendly and there are jobs that can be had that are more Aspie friendly, and to try and keep an open mind about it.

As far as online games, I would be interested to know which games DW your sister thinks are non addictive? I used that exact line on him ages ago, when I pointed out that the game was controlling him. At the moment though for him, I think gaming is a moot point. He seems to be spending all his time on learning the Japanese language.

I pretty much quoted what Tracker wrote about, which was I perceive him at a loss and not knowing how he is going to get a decent full time job and move out of his parent's house because if he knew how to do it, he would be doing it.

I don't have much more to say to him about the whole ASD thing. He knows what I think about it, he knows I think both his Dad and I both have some aspie things going on, yet here we are in the world today. I also mentioned a guy that works at his Dad's office, who is most certainly an Aspie, he is a math genius, no one expects a lot of conversation from him, they get him and they appreciate the work he does.

I will keep making suggestions to him even if they are not in his comfort zone. I have told him that if he becomes fluent in Japanese, he could have some kind of import business related to Japanese games. It is just a vague idea I have, and his immediate reaction is, "you are talking nonsense" but that just shows me he knows nothing about the import export business.

For now that is my top priority, having the depression and social anxiety issues alleviated, I don't think they will ever go away for him but it can be a whole lot better. Then onto the job or school or job and school, however it can work out.

Namaste

I'm gonna take a different route here. I'm speaking from a similar place to your son's. I am 22 years old now, and part of realizing that I had aspergers was losing my scholarship at 21 because between my anxiety over it and my low reading speed (despite my high comprehension) wouldn't allow me to handle the heavy reading load of a full class load for a literature degree while working part time. Now I work a difficult job with a lot of social anxiety over my coworkers. I'm an experimental, liberal, artsy type guy working at a special needs school staffed mostly by conservative, religious women twice my age. I've pushed on to work through morning panic attacks over work.

That said, I fully support taking a hard line on this. He needs to realize that figuring our how to live along with the NT work world is only temporarily a choice. I fully understand how stressful the situation is, but you seem to have given him a chance to do this the easy way. My parents gave me a pretty hard line about living in their house as an adult (I have to be working or going to school) and I think that is one of the better parenting decisions they made in a long line of mediocre to poor decisions. It may sound harsh, but it's an important lesson that he has to learn before anything can happen to his support structure and leave him with no school or work experience explaining to potential employers how having a job had just been too hard for however long. The real world will eat him up like it's still trying to get me, if he doesn't learn young. I'm not trying to be harsh. I just know what it's like to suddenly not have the (economic, social, family, etc.) support structure you thought you did or the real world skills to get by on your own. It sucks, and I'm glad I had my priorities straight before it happened to me. Yes, I spent a lot of time struggling and did some things to get my parents off of my back, but I have most of a BA and a good job to show for it, rather than staying the hermit I was for so many of my public school years, and I came out better for it. This isn't a world he can hide from anymore. You and he just have to remain aware of his stress and anxiety level and work towards being able to handle the adult world with as little of it as possible. I'm still in this experimental stage, and things are going well for me.

My daughter went through the same experiences. She quit university after two weeks and I was able to bring her home and she continued in a university in town. She was totally unable to survive in a dorm situation away from home. She almost completed her degree, was on the dean's honor roll, got excellent grades, but quit and finished her degree part time. She made no friends. She managed to get a few jobs, but none lasted very long even though she was considered to be a good employee. For some reason she just couldn't take the 'outside world'. She has worked in libraries, her last job being running a small library on her own. But this ideal job didn't work either. Her doctor advised her to quit work--she was in the process of falling apart. She came back to live with me at the age of 40. Her experiences trying to live alone were disastrous--it's a wonder she is still alive. She is better not working and we are in the process of applying for a disability pension. I always encouraged her to apply for jobs. She has lots of skills and is very intelligent, her ability to socialize is excellent (though not natural nor real), and even with medication for anxiety and depression she is unable to cope. She has had lots of interests, but these don't necessarily translate into the ability to function in a related job. Although I was always accepting, I now find myself accepting the fact that she can't function as others do. I would never throw her out (though when I was married, my husband was not so understanding. I'm better with her alone). I wish I had realized that she had Asperger's a lot earlier--she was diagnosed quite recently. She may never be able to hold a job, but I find that we do very well together. I'm more helpful than I've ever been and I'm relieved that her problems are not my fault, nor hers.
I know how difficult it all is, but I hope you let your son know you are on his side--he is clearly hurting. I wish you the best of luck.

Dear Rebel_Nowe

I understand your opinion that she should use the 'sink or swim' methodology. I certainly did not receive much kindness or patience growing up, and I managed to make it on my own. But the problem is that the 'sink or swim' method also has a pretty high drowning rate.

If the child is just too afraid to manage their own life, then forcing them out to confront their fears can get them over it.
If the child is just too lazy to take care of themselves and work a job, then forcing them out will make them take responsibility.
If the child just can't manage to take care of things on their own, then forcing them out is just not going to end well.

I don't think that painting diva's child is necessarily just being lazy or afraid. I think he is just genuinely unable to deal with the world effectively. Now while I am not opposed to being direct and somewhat confrontational to somebody who needs to step up and start making progress in their life, I don't think it is wise just to toss them out on the street and say 'your on your own'.

Language exchange web sites? This is starting to sound really fishy. He's actually speaking to people online? Because I will be quite frank with you, here in Japan "language exchange" is a thinly veiled cover for dating...especially shy people will say they want language exchange when they are ACTUALLY looking for a boyfriend/girlfriend. Do you have any idea if a woman is involved in the situation? When you ask him why he is studying the language, what does he say?

As for the online games I was playing Farmville on FB for a while but I finally got bored with it--way too repetitive.

Don't feel it's "fishy" if he's talking to a woman (or man for that matter) - that's just a natural thing.

The issue of laziness is a hard one. With our 17 yo son, my natural NT inclination is to see our son's inaction as laziness. But, although there might be elements of that, it's just obvious if I stand back a bit that there is much more to it than that. No NT kid could act the way he does; his inaction or actions are just too extreme.

It's becoming clear to me he just does not understand the world, regardless that we may repeatedly explain things to him. His lack of executive function means he cannot realistically see his place in the world, where he needs to go, what he needs to do to get there. What we need to get him though this year academically will be to work constantly with him and his teachers. If he tries it on his own he will crash and burn, there is no doubt about that whatsoever.

This is not what I want to do. I would like him to be self-sufficient like his sister, who is an A+ scholar at university, head of one of the university clubs etc. But it is what we have to do. You have to adjust your expectations and find what will work for your child.

I have a couple of degrees and a professional business, but I struggle, so I can fully understand Rebel Nowe. The world is generally a tough, hard place.

But you have to tailor what you do to the individual. Some are obviously more able and better able to cope than others. Some can cope in the outside world and some can't. My wife has schizophrenia and she can only cope with part time, lower pressure jobs. That is just the way it is.

I am glad that you seemed to be making a bit of headway with your son, PaintingDiva. Good for you!

I just say "fishy" meaning PaintingDiva may not be aware if this is what is happening...but it's a possibility if he is "studying Japanese" in the middle of the night with someone on some message board in a time zone 12 hours away.

Thanks for all the posts WP friends.

Language exchange websites are really dating websites for Japanese who want to date people who live in another country? Can you elaborate on that? Does this mean he is talking to native Japanese women who could be hustling him to send them money via PayPal?

I did warn him about the watch out for women who want to marry you so they can get a green card and once the time period up you will be divorced faster than you can say "I do"....And I am well aware that social naivety can be a problem for Aspies. Great something new to worry about....

My son is not lazy, I know that. He works very hard on that which he is interested in and he was appreciated at the restaurant where he worked for the past year, they said he could come back if he wanted to. Though clearly he does not want to.

My current sketchy plan is to wait for him to get back up to the correct dosage on his anti depressant, observe and see if it makes a difference for him. Then see if he is receptive to looking at various trade schools, possible careers, and job options.

Financial independence is still the long term goal for him. By whatever means that works best for him. He is one stubborn person, and he is going to have to find his own answers but that doesn't mean I can't keep offering suggestions.

And to turf him out of my house for not having a job or being in school, while he is depressed would be extremely cruel and probably a fast track to life under the freeway bridge.

Meanwhile I plan to ask him why he is so interested in learning Japanese. I have always thought it had something to do with the game "Monster Hunter". He sincerely wants to play the Japanese version but he doesn't have the right kind of VISA charge card to play it.

And he won't get that kind of card until he has employment again and a good credit rating, which actually may motivate him to get another job, one he is more suited to. Or do the trade school or college thing.....

Thanks again for the posts. Life is problems. Pretty much always. I figure you run, you stumble, you pick yourself up and you keep moving....

You asked earlier what games my sister would recommend, and I haven't had a chance to ask her, but I know she plays Everquest and has forever. Still takes up a lot of time, but since raiding is less important in that game, it is easier to box, or at least that is what she has told me. One thing she has never said is, "I can't do that because there is raid right now." But I think she pays a fee for it. She has a good job, and an active social life off the Internet. She has also travelled cross country to attend a wedding of people she knows only through Everquest. She is not an obsessive type about anything, however, so I think balance is more natural to her than it would be to me. I have to fight for it. Still, I found it interesting that she has said she would never play WOW because of the way it takes over people's lives.

I would say that your son is clinically depressed. He needs to go back to the psychiatrist who gave him the meds and get on meds again. If he didn't like one particular anti-depressant, he can tell the psychiatrist that he wants to try another.

Work with a psychologist would also be helpful. Advice from his parents probably sounds like nagging, but a skilled psychologist can present advice in a way that he might accept better.

I don't think that you are realistically going to get much done about school or work until something is done about his depression. I think that that is the root of his issues.

I am married to a man with bipolar disorder, and know from personal experience that trying to logically reason with soneone who is doing poorly from a mental health perspective often just irritates the person or pushes him further away.

Sweet talk him and offer him small gifts in order to motivate him to go to appointments.

I wish you the best of luck.

Hi there, sorry if I am making you worry unnecessarily! But as a mother you should be concerned, I think.

I have no idea what web site your son is looking at so I can't say anything specifically pertaining to it. Is it a message board like this? I just did a quick Google search and found one random one that has text chat rooms. I am kinda assuming that if he is talking to people in Japan then he might be using something like this.

I am not saying that language exchange web sites are cover for dating sites. However some people do use them in the hopes of finding a boyfriend or girlfriend. And if your son is depressed then not having a girlfriend could have something to do with it. Trust me I've been there. When I was your son's age I was always trying to meet girls online and some of them did live pretty far away...I remember one was in New Zealand. I'm sure you have heard stories of people travelling far and wide to meet people they met online only to have the story end in disappointment or disaster.

I wouldn't worry so much about visa hunters, there really are not too many of them here. Girls may want a foreigner boyfriend for a number of reasons. One thing you may or may not know is that Japanese girls can seem very immature when compared to American girls of the same age.

I've never played Monster Hunter but if he is playing the Korean version wouldn't he need to know Korean??