*"Homeschooler /Anti-School C. R. Thread!"*

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I wish you had, too. From what I've read in your posts, things would have been profoundly different for you if a better alternative had been found for you.

And for hundreds of thousands of other children, now and in the past.
I got used to it, adapted, was certain teachers' star pupil, was consequently called teachers pet, and dictionary, until I learned to stop caring about anything we were studying. I even reached the point where I could make other children laugh, by taking the piss of the headmistress for example, etc. I was not afraid to contribute in class. I was able to get by on course work with little effort, but getting by is all I did.

The trouble is that none of this had anything to do with what I really wanted to do. It was just a superb piece of "art" (artifice), my presence in class an acting activity, and I learned almost nothing apart from how to do that.

I have no idea at all what you mean by "exchange of ideas". There was almost none of that, apart from late on, age 17-19, in literature classes, discussing books.

And I know that my experience of school is not unusual. It is the majority one. Most people find school boring, alienating, mindnumbing, disempowering. It is you that are the exception/in the minority.

I do agree I was in the minority. But I was also fortunate to have good schools and good teachers. And, probably, an unprecedented amount of freedom in selecting my courses as a result of the combination of having been identified as gifted, and the ideals of the time period in which I grew up. In elementary school I did a lot of break-out and independent study, and by the middle of Jr. High I was unusally in classes with maybe a dozen students, total. And, yes, we were encouraged to share ideas and interact. It was part of being allocated to that higher tier of course work.

Of course, my recent experiences with school are those I CHOOSE, like taking art classes at a nearby college just for fun, or studying for my Master's Degree in my field of speciality at work. The later were classes of 20-30 students all working while studying in the same field as I was, and there was much sharing of personal experience with the issues in class. No one would take those classes if they weren't interesting, since they certainly are not required.

My point is NOT that it is for everyone, just that the blanket statements about it ALL being instrinsically bad are incorrect. Some individuals actually thrive in school. Funny thing, isn't it? People are different. Schools are different. Good combinations happen. And, yes, I have trouble swallowing articles that insist it is impossible. That's bunk.

ouinon, thank you for your nice post. I really appreciate your words.

I did read the article "Why Schools Don't Educate". I agree with a lot of what is being said, mostly the parts about a child should have the TIME to self-educate, the TIME to explore and be curious. We have systematically, as a culture (in the U.S. -- I'm not sure about elsewhere) taken away a child's chance to be a child.

I have often wondered for my children, where is the time to just lay on the ground, and look up at the sky? To figure out where the clouds are going, and what shapes they are in? To catch fireflies in the summer, and release them before we go to bed? What happened to spending time with grandparents, and asking what life was like when they were children? Why are we in such a rush?

So, in that way, homeschooling provides more of the opportunity for that kind of development, and I think that there is no question that it can provide a truly well-rounded child and carry them into adulthood. THIS is why it is such a tempting choice, and once the choice was made, would probably be a good one that one would never have to look back on with disappointment.

My other real complaint about public schools, and I'm sure other parents here would agree, that I'm so tired of our schools preparing our children for standardized tests, and NOTHING else, it would seem. Just drives me crazy! We have some good teachers, but their hands are tied by the federal government demanding a ridiculous level of satisfaction, pretending that children achieving through these tests warrants whether or not a school receives funding. It just zaps so much of the life out of the classroom.

So, homeschooling is looking like a better and better option.

Kris

This is very true. It seems that the list of "must do's" has gotten so long that children in many families have little time to follow their initiative - or do nothing at all. Fortunately, my son isn't shy about telling us he needs that time, so we spend far more time than the average American family at home doing nothing. But it feels like fighting against the wind. My poor children do not play musical instruments, speak foreign languages, swim with a team, ride horses play sports year around (lol, my neice does nearly all of these). To hear my SIL tell us how important all the things we DON'T do are ... well, it gets difficult. I wish we had MORE down time for the kids, not less!

Yes, ouinon's post to you was very nicely stated, and did a good job of selling homeschooling. I do think it is a very good choice for many families with Aspie children.

I am talking way, way WAY too much. My apologies.

A few links that I posted on General Autism but are more appropriate here:

http://www.straight.com/article/activis ... -and-learn

http://www.mightymatthern.com/everywher ... etime.html

http://www.educationrevolution.org/matthern.html

I realised that I saw very recently how easily my son might have been labelled, in fact become ADHD or otherwise ( more ) learning disabled, if he had gone to school, in the african percussion class he went to once a week until a couple of weeks ago. We stopped ( after talking about it), because the combination of 1) two noisy metal instruments introduced this term and 2) a group of 3-4 children who had begun to mock him, and chant insults at him on occasion, was having a significantly disturbing/overloading effect on him.

On a couple of occasions, parents waiting with me outside, watching through the big windows, remarked that he seemed in another world, and wondered , in a nice enough way, why he came. For quite a long time he had enjoyed it because he loved the music, and the warm up session and break up time playing with the other children. But this term the mockery and the harsh clanging instruments put a stop to that.

Before he decided to stop going I noticed behaviour which I could see would look "odd"; not only the blank switched off moments, but short periods of wriggling, sudden gesticulating, grimacing, and smiling at nothing, aswell as comments out loud to nobody, and more wriggling, as if he were discharging accumulated tension with movement.

The thing is that he doesn't do this at home, and until this class I had never seen him behaving like this. It was in direct reaction to the class environment.

It's taken me a couple of weeks to understand that I literally saw my son developing "problems". Which he hasn't got, except in a too noisy and somewhat hostile/stressful environment. And that was just one hour, once a week, with 12 children.

Well, he's stopped now. He still goes to Karate, and fencing, but they are quiet, and he can discharge tension constantly through the movement, and the Karate master is brilliant.

I want my kids to have an education uncontrolled by politics too. Though since moderation is probably good, sending them to school for a while is a good way to teach them about the school system and how it usually sucks! I'd have fun either way; with a kid in the same school all the way thru because he loves it, or with a kid constantly changing schools or changing sometimes, which is a blast as well, or totally at home doing what they want with guidance and encouragement (like, if I find my kid mixing up stuff in the kitchen and making a mess, I wouldn't force it on them, but I'd show them some fun cookbooks with color pictures and say "Hey, do you want to help me make a spongecake?" or if I see my kid watching lots of movies with fighting I'd encourage them to take self-defence. Or if I saw them playing shoot-em-up games I'd bring them some military pamphlets and show them the armed forces website.


I think that putting kids in a room and trying to discipline them into learning is only going to make them learn that they live in an oppressive sort of society, that they are being controlled by people who think they know better than them, how if they don't pass all these tests they may never have a career, etc. All that negative stuff, and all those negative movies they show kids in school to scare them. "This is what became of Andy when he dropped out of school." Every kid I met that dropped out of school dropped out due to stress. The stress of being told that they had to pass this test or else, they had to study hard or bad things would happen, they had to do all this huge mountain of homework or they would lose hope of getting into a good university and a good career, because this is a Competitive World and we have to Work Very Hard Or We Will Fail And Just Be Mediocre. And those videos they show those kids-- so and so dropped out "to do drugs", he's a loser now, look at him. Aversive therapy. Threats, warnings, all negativity. "Fear the system, fear life, fear any kind fo slacking or laziness or needing a break." It means you aren't good enough; survival of the fittest. It teaches you that if you need a break, you have a weakness that could kill you; you aren't good enough. You need to be always on the ball, hitting the books every night for 4 hours, "We don't care if you have a life or need a life, that's your problem." "Oh, we're only trying to prepare you for the real world!" A life of fear? Is that what the real world is like? A life of stress and constantly trying to keep up and being labeled disabled or lazy (aka gas chamber material) if you don't, and feeling dumber and more useless?


I totally don't want to subject my children to a constant barrage of this like so many parents do.


Thanks for listening to my rant.

iamnotaparakeet just posted some statistics about homeschooled children's academic achievements on the News and Current Events Forum at:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt67288.html

They make inspiring and, for a parent of a homeschooler anyway, heartening reading!

I'm the proud daughter of two public school teachers and a very strong supporter of public education and teachers. However, I also believe in homeschooling for those who wish to do so and admire those who take on this monumental, challenging, often-thankless task, especially when they're responsible for running everything else in the household as well.

Not at all monumental or thankless. And challenging only when the authorities want to inspect the results of it, despite studies, ( see link above ), showing that homeschoolers have significantly better academic results than public schooled children.

What would be a monumental and thankless task would be sending my son to school, and nightly trying and failing to repair the damage.

Monumental? We both get up when we want, ( between 7.30 and 9.00 ), play or post on the internet for about 3 hours during the day (on average) . We spend about an hour and a half on the corr. school's assessed homework, and the rest of time my son reads, plays, and learns naturally while doing so.

School spends a ludicrously huge amount of time making learning seem a chore, and teaching submission to authority. My son learned to read with no teaching at all; children learn if they think something is useful or interesting. The reason so many have so many problems in school, which the teachers, parents, and children, then have to deal with, is that school is boring.

Monumental? Thankless? This, homeschooling, is easier than it would be just to get him up, washed, fed, and dressed every day to go to school. It is parents of chiildren who go to school who have the monumental task, and a thankless one.

Well, I hope your child realizes that he simply won't be able to just get up when he wants and do what he wants most of the time when he joins the real world. That's just the way it is. Say what you want about schools, they really do do the best they can for the most part with what they have. They have to take ALL kids of ALL levels and abilities, they can't pick and choose like private schools. And if you don't think teaching is a monumental, challenging and often thankless job, then you're not doing it right. My parents worked very hard for forty years and did a damn good job at it, too. Their major obstacles were most administrators and administration, state and federal legislators who don't know a damn thing about education but who stick their noses in with ridiculous laws and mandates, and parents who insist the teacher be everything and anything and do everything, even though they don't have them nearly as much as the parents do, and who insist that their little Johnny would never do anything wrong and it's all the teacher's fault.

This was the first massively insulting value-laden judgement in your post. The real world? Do tell me where it is and what it takes to qualify for the title?

It is precisely because most adults have to get up at certain times and because childhood is the time when learn fastest and most easily that I think this is the perfect moment to let my son do as much as possible what interests him, at his own rhythm, while he can.


Which is principally and primarily social control, the formation of behaviour, tastes and attitudes, and nothing much to do with knowledge.


Massive insult no 2, which is the unfortunately widespread result of not knowing/understanding how most children learn, which is out of interest, curiosity, need, and mimicry.

My son didn't need me to teach him how to read. He taught himself naturally, spontaneously, while looking at comic books, playing games on the internet, seeing language all around him on food packets, road signs, etc. It just happened.

He now ( aged 8 ) has read The Hobbit, and similarly sizeable childrens books. I had nothing to do with this other than providing the time, the library visits, and the encouragement. No lessons. It is a terrible and absurd myth that children need to have learning pushed into them, by professionals trained to the "arduous task".

He learned basic maths while counting up scores in games, multiple dice throws, percentage scores on internet games, multiplication while collecting "items" on online multiplayer games like Runescape, ( so many per trip, that means how many trips to earn so many, etc) .

Have you read about the Prussian ( old Germany) School System on which most American and european schools were modelled? It is quite eye opening about the purposes of school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system

Have you read/looked at any of the articles, sites, excerpts etc that I linked to on the opening page of this thread?

Another good one is at:

http://www.thememoryhole.org/edu/school-mission.htm

Happy educational reading!

Last edited by ouinon on 01 Jun 2008, 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

A six page long fight on public vs. homeschooling? Awesome!

I was homeschooled for a short time as a child. And I have to say, even as much as I hated being in school, I hated being homeschooled even more.

We homeschooled our eldest for a while. It was just not working out, mainly for every reason sated on page one. He has since blossomed in public school.

Even with all of the problems we have had with our youngest son's school, I know he is very well served by them.

Both of our ASD boys found their passions at school, something they would not have been exposed to while at home.

Both of our children are exposed to many, many things while at home. Music, books, ideas, mechanics, history, travel, people and so on.

So we do what is best for them and for us. They go to school and learn at home.

Do you mean these, posted by kit?
I did finally, seeing that what had been intended as a support thread for homeschoolers ( with a title to that effect originally too!) had turned into an argument, get round to addressing those criticisms, on page three of the thread. Three of them are unfounded, and the other, boredom, is a temporary effect only, the result of schooling, which children just need time to recover from.

What kind of homeschooling did you try? "Unschooling" seems to suit many Aspies because it allows them to follow their interests, at their own speed etc. Did you try that?

How long did you try homeschooling for?


What kind of homeschooling did you have as a child? How old were you? If you were already used to school it may have been hard to adapt. Academic achievements of homeschooled children improve the longer that they are homeschooled. As does their self esteem, confidence etc.

The first year/six months after taking a child out of school is almost always hard, especially if parents impose an almost school-like programme with traditional academic expectations, as children who have been in school for more than a year or two often need quite a bit of time to recover, and have absolutely no desire to do anything, no curiosity, etc because of school's "stop thinking for yourself" training etc etc.

A lot of homeschooling parents find that their children need a period of time with almost no demands, that the smallest amount of work imposed by the parent can become a nightmare struggle. The child has to have time to rediscover their natural desire to find out things, etc. The longer they have been at school the longer this takes.

For a while children may complain of boredom. But if they are allowed time to "lie fallow", they gradually begin to feel, and show, interest in things again. The effect of most schools on many children's spontaneous curiosity, enthusiasm, creativity, and capacity for sustained autonomous work is appalling.

Ouinon, I have to say that I also am unschooling my son (he's 11) and agree with nearly everything you've written on this long and interesting thread. It's just that this is one of those debates that will go on until the end of time. It's like the stay-at-home vs. full time working parent debate. I was on one of those boards and will never, ever return. The vitriole spewed at me for stating my belief that it's best to stay home with your baby was ridiculous.

Anyway...I applaud you for trying to champion the homeschool cause but the ps mentality is one that is deeply ingrained in so many people they just can't see that there might be a better way and they can't or don't really want to see what how truly bad a lot of public schools are. I won't waste my time trying to convert- if asked I tell people about homeschooling, they usually look at me look as if I'm explaining neurosurgery to them and say "Oh boy, I could never do that' and then we move on.

Sorry! the above post was posted under my son's username-he goes on the kids board and really enjoys it.

Anyway... Rachel46 posted the last comment