Some Mothers Chosen By God

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DW_a_mom
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11 Dec 2008, 9:11 pm

art4autism wrote:

LOl , well atleast people are calming down. I didnt realize this blog was a debate forum. I shall stay on my toes now. By the way. They just found Caylee Anthony's body here in Florida. Very sad day.

Oh no.

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DW_a_mom
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11 Dec 2008, 9:14 pm

ImMelody wrote:

First, for art4autism, I think there is no reason to worry about staying on your toes. Just keep in mind that many Aspies that may or may not be parents will read things and draw their own conclusions. Sometimes they don't realize they've crossed into an NT world as they just click on "New Posts since last time visited."

Lol, I was wondering why all these new handles suddenly were showing up in parenting. I was going to ask if they had religion or God on a hot list or something. Your explanation is a lot simplier.

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DW_a_mom
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11 Dec 2008, 9:17 pm

drowbot0181 wrote:

Saying "God did it" instead of "I just don't know" is assuming you know everything.

No, because it is faith that leads to the conclusion. I readily accept that I cannot "know" what I take by faith.

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DW_a_mom
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11 Dec 2008, 9:23 pm

WurdBendur wrote:

This thread is an excellent demonstration of how anti-science people don't even understand what science is.

Not everyone who has faith is "anti-science." You seem to assume they are, and I know that certainly some are, but I believe in my religion AND I believe in science. It's quite possible if you don't take the Bible literally.

Possibly we are not all as educated in scientific definition as you are, that does not mean we lack respect for and knowledge of science.

My scientific training ended 20 years ago and hasn't seem much use since. It's a practical matter, just how life has gone for me, but I was very VERY good at science and thoroughly enjoyed it when I studied it. Just don't expect someone like me to define it all quite as well as you do after so many years of rust. I'm not even going to TRY to debate you on it; just say that I know science and faith CAN co-exist. I solved THAT one when I WAS well informed on every little detail about science.

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WurdBendur
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12 Dec 2008, 12:28 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

WurdBendur wrote:

This thread is an excellent demonstration of how anti-science people don't even understand what science is.

First, that was an off-hand comment that was not intended to bear the load of criticism. But since you insist, I'll gird it up with some support.
1) You have made an assumption regarding my intent, which you apparently misunderstood. Let me clarify: I understand fully that faith and science can coexist. This comment was directed at people who disregard science in favor of faith, not those who try to balance both separately.
2) The people here trying to redefine science seem to be an attempting to replace it with faith. If you think back to your more scientific days, what part of that would be different if you defined science differently? My guess would be none, except you might just fill in gaps in understanding with "God did it" and never seek an answer. However, you seem to confuse science education with actual science. Science is about exploration, not about knowing all the facts. If you'd like to fill in with faith, that's fine. Just don't let it stop you from doing actual science too.
3) If you are not anti-science and you understand what science is, this is not about you. It is mainly about Christians who try to reconcile science with a belief system that rejects it by forcefully changing their understanding of science without the willingness to reconsider their beliefs as well. It is also about those who believe science is a dogma just like a religion and has no particular relation to reality beyond a belief system. This view, of course, is patently incorrect. Again, if these do not describe you, then the statement was not about you.

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art4autism
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12 Dec 2008, 12:40 am

I do not believe in the literal term of religion or God. I do believe God is Science and Science is God. I stand by this belief. Science is ever changing and more knowledge is gained as we evolve. The "String Theory" is a great example of where I am coming from. God is much deeper then a church or a cross. I think the use of the word God is what has people so hot about this thread. Think out of the box. Not everything is black and white.

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Shadow50
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12 Dec 2008, 1:21 am

Just a couple of comments:

A basic tenet of the people of the book (Christian, Muslim, Jew) is to acknowledge the hand of God in all things.

In my opinion, science and religion are both seeking the truth, and must therefore ultimately come to the same conclusion. Just don't know when that will happen yet.

A common feature among people who survive cancer is their sheer determination. Can this be quantified medicinally? If someone's faith gives them sufficient determination to help them overcome difficulties, how can that be a bad thing?

Still a beautiful story. I'm going to print it up nicely and frame it for my girlfriend just to remind her how special she is. Damn it, now you've made me cry again.

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dance4the1
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12 Dec 2008, 1:28 am

We just got a PDD-NOS dianosis today for our 4 year daughter.
I appreciated the encouragement in your post "Some Mothers Chosen By God"

Thanks!

WurdBendur
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12 Dec 2008, 1:49 am

Shadow50 wrote:

Just a couple of comments:

A basic tenet of the people of the book (Christian, Muslim, Jew) is to acknowledge the hand of God in all things.

Granted, this is true. But you can do this without changing what science is, or even worrying about the definition. The important thing is how it's done. But pretending it's something it's not is usually just a poor excuse to argue against it, or in favor or something that would normally be contrary to it.

Shadow50 wrote:

In my opinion, science and religion are both seeking the truth, and must therefore ultimately come to the same conclusion. Just don't know when that will happen yet.

In what way is any religion seeking the truth? A religion essentially contains (apparently) unchanging and fantastical explanations for natural phenomena that science can or can't explain, along with instructions about how to live. No part of this seems to include figuring out how things work.

Shadow50 wrote:

A common feature among people who survive cancer is their sheer determination. Can this be quantified medicinally? If someone's faith gives them sufficient determination to help them overcome difficulties, how can that be a bad thing?

A common feature among people who get cancer is determination to survive. We just don't hear the stories of those people who have that determination and die. Or, for that matter, the people who don't have it and do survive.

Shadow50 wrote:

Still a beautiful story.

That's the thing. I'm not sure it even has that going for it, though I suppose it might be comforting. Or torturous, depending on how you feel about being specifically chosen.

To me, living under an omnipresent God felt like a tremendous burden. When my belief faded, it was even worse at first. But then I realized I had become free. Free to make my own choices, to have my own identity, and free to live by my morals instead of 4000-year-old rules. And most importantly, I became free to explore and learn and fully appreciate the true beauty of nature without diluting it with the shallow explanations of God and magic. And the true beauty of nature is that it is far too complex for me to ever understand completely—ALL BY ITSELF—yet its knowledge does not have to be hidden behind a mysterious all-powerful figure.

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gaoth
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12 Dec 2008, 2:39 am

in otherwords I (aspie) would be a gift from god....would I be able to get some rights from that in catholic church...I always wanted a statue of me around the village.

thank you though.

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drowbot0181
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12 Dec 2008, 9:25 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

drowbot0181 wrote:

In other words, you can't explain God = Science. I provided a definition of science and asked you to fill in the definition of God that completes the equation. You still have not. By this logic, I could say your God is a ham sandwich and it is just as valid.

You know what? No one here needs to explain to anyone else here WHY they believe as they do, not even because you've asked. You don't have to explain yourself to me; I don't have to explain myself to you. What I ask is that you RESPECT that beliefs are reasonably arrived at WITHOUT demanding to see the logic behind them. Funny thing about logic, no matter how black and white it appears to one person, someone else can always turn it and make it something else, so there is no black and white universal infallible knowledge except when it comes to mathematics. EVERYTHING ELSE involves either a subjective or qualifying element, no matter how great your logic is. I know that I could explain myself blue in the face, share the entirety of my life experience, and no one else would see everything exactly as I do, so why would I take the time? Some days I may be in the mood to, others I won't be, but it doesn't make my positions any less valid just because I choose not to answer every little question someone on a message board asks. We ALL have a right to our beliefs, and we ALL have a right to have those beliefs - yours or mine - RESPECTED.

-----

Not sure if the above is still appropriate since the thread has evolved since, but I'll let the post stand.

Just one final note:

My 11 year old AS son, who loves and excels at science and is fascinated by religion concluded years ago that "God is science." He explained why, and it's not faith the way I see it but it works for him. I always thought it was cute the way he got to that, and am proud of how he applies it to his life, so I found it interesting to hear others say essentially the same thing. Is there anything wrong with letting people reconcile all the complexities in their world in whatever way suits them, as long as it leads to positive results?

Or is that the argument, that it can't lead to positive results?

On that, I beg to differ. What leads to good isn't the same for everyone, and there is no basis for judgment simply based on a stated belief.

You disrespect towards me is astounding. You weren't a part of this discussion, yet you come in, just to say that you don't have to be a part of this discussion. I have every right to challege a belief and ask for an explanation of that belief. If the person I am talking to (who was NOT you) doesn't want to explain the belief, or can't, then they can simply state that. Instead she just kept rephrasing the same statement. She chose to continue the conversation. It is not disrespectful for me to keep asking for further clarification. If you son asks you to clarify something that YOU keep telling him over and over are you going to verbally berate him? You should be ashamed of yourself and I pity your son.
And btw, logic IS universal. That's why it is logic. You are confusing it with faith.

slowmutant
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12 Dec 2008, 9:33 am

Drowbot, your disrespect towards everyone is astounding.

ImMelody
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12 Dec 2008, 9:38 am

slowmutant wrote:

Drowbot, your disrespect towards everyone is astounding.

I have to respectfully disagree. I saw his questions as very legitimate. I did my best to explain it, but it came down to semantics (which I've gotten pretty used to). Nothing of what he's said was overly callus or rude. In the beginning, they seemed to be, but as the discussion went on, he was simply in the pursuit of knowledge.

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drowbot0181
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12 Dec 2008, 9:46 am

ImMelody wrote:

...he was simply in the pursuit of knowledge.

That's exactly right. Thank you.
That is also the major difference between me and those that attacked me.

drowbot0181
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12 Dec 2008, 9:46 am

slowmutant wrote:

Drowbot, your disrespect towards everyone is astounding.

You right, I shouldn't have called you names...oh wait... that wasn't me...

slowmutant
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12 Dec 2008, 9:53 am

You were bullied as a kid, weren't you?

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